T25 won't spool

[420Aturbopwr]

Hey everyone, i'm a newbie to this forum but not a newbie to DSM's. I can pretty much tell you anything about a 420A (besides the fact that they are slower than *%#*). Anyways I just purchased a 97 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, and i have to say it is awesome, i totally regret dumping like 7K in my GS. Back on topic, when i first bought the Talon the T25 would spool great but he wasn't running synthetic and the car also had lifter tick. So i searched and i recently changed out my oil with Mobil 1 10W30 SuperSyn and filter and Lucas Oil Stabilizer. The lifter tick is much quieter now but when i went for a drive the turbo barely spools, wtf!? My car feels like a stock GS. I put in 2 quarts of stabilizer in first then 2.5 of the Mobil. I noticed that the stabilizer is very thick and honey like. Should I have put the Mobil in first or did i put too much of the stabilizer?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Only put in 1/2 qt. at the MOST with your oil. Any there was no reason to change to synthetic. I would have just stayed with regular and added some Stabilizer but that is WAY to much. You may have blown your turbo due to lack of oil. Is it smoking at all?

 

[420Aturbopwr]

No no smoking at all, In fact i feared that it might blow so i hurried home without trying to spool it up. Sorry some ignorant certain someone here in town told me i could use up to 2 quarts of the stabilizer. Dumping it all out tomorrow and just going to run new Mobil.

 

[420Aturbopwr]

and this certain someone works at Autozone, I HATE AUTOZONE!

 

[Marc91GSX]

No no smoking at all, In fact i feared that it might blow so i hurried home without trying to spool it up. Sorry some ignorant certain someone here in town told me i could use up to 2 quarts of the stabilizer. Dumping it all out tomorrow and just going to run new Mobil.

Yeah "get in the zone for repeat business". When using lucas you only want to put in a certain amount based on a percentage of the oil capacity of your engine. The absolute max would be 20% of your engine's oil capacity. So if your engine holds 5 quarts then the most you would use is 1qt, and you always put it in last. The stuff is so thick that it will not flow through the oil pump on initial start up. It is very possible that you have damaged the bearings on the turbo as a result of lack of oil. It is easy to check though. Just pull your intake and check the shaft play, also spin the wheel putting slight pressure on it to feel if the bearings are catching anywhere.

 

[420Aturbopwr]

Yeah I'm checking my turbo tomorrow and it its got significant shaft play i'm going back to "the gayzone" and telling him off. I know it's not the most mature thing to do but i've already had plenty of nightmares with my 420A, the last thing i need is my 4G getting possessed by satan. We even read the back of the bottle at the counter and he said "use about 2 quarts", i was like "uhm, are you sure? It says 20 percent........"he's like "no trust me i did it in my crx". I told him i had a totally different engine than his little crx and he was like "doesn't matter should work fine" I was "ok", i only listened to him because he's been working there for like 5 years and obvioulsy gave me the worst advice on planet earth. Well if i find out the turbo is long gone tomorrow in the meantime i'll opt for a 14b while saving up for a 16G. Now that i look at it I can't believe I listened to a Honda guy.

 

[420Aturbopwr]

What would be the best way to get all the stabilizer out completely? Warming up the car til it's hot then draining it?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Yeah that will be the only way. Just get it up to operating temp. and then shut it off and drain it right away.

 

[420Aturbopwr]

Okay thanks, yeah that's what i meant by hot (operating temp). Not overheating .

 

[kenamond]

If your car is parked, I'd leave it there until you change out the oil. If you drive it at all without getting oil to the turbo, it might damage the oil bearing which could lead to other damage in your turbo.

Then again, if you total your turbo, then you have an excellent excuse to upgrade.

 

[DSM4me44]

I switched to synthetic when i got my car because numerous people said that under the extreme heat of the turbo, synthetic doesn't break down like regular oil does. Right?

 

[420Aturbopwr]

If your car is parked, I'd leave it there until you change out the oil. If you drive it at all without getting oil to the turbo, it might damage the oil bearing which could lead to other damage in your turbo.

Then again, if you total your turbo, then you have an excellent excuse to upgrade.

Well found out today the turbo has shaft play from side to side but not that much, is that bad? Just found out too that the car has a cheap MBC, i guess it's time to crank up boost and look for an upgrade (evo 3 16g hint...hint... )

 

[motoman358]

DSM4me44, yes, synthetic oil has much better properties that can handle extremes (hot or cold) much, much better than conventional oil. If the price doesnt kill you, and you plan on keeping your car for a long time, its worth running. I use it in my cars. It can also pay itself off if you use extended drain intervals, and it can save you work by not changing your oil as often. If you want to find anything out about oils or additives go to www.bobistheoilguy.com there is literally a ton of information on this site.

 

[fwdeclipse]

I put that lucas oil in my talon a few years ago and had the same problem,I could only get 1-2psi of boost.I drained and it ran fine.

 

[spectr019]

If your Lucas poured in like honey you probably got the non-synthetic kind. That's just off my memory though of when I put mine in cause I've had both for when I was using conventional and synthetic oils. Make sure that you put in the synthetic lucas when you put in synthetic oil, although it sounds like you already figured out your problem is the turbo, but the mixture of the oil and wrong stabalizer could be bad later on.
Last thing, I don't know if it would make much of a difference, but I don't think you need to put in even amounts of the oil and stabalizer. I put in 3 quarts of oil and 1 quart of stabalizer and everything's just fine and dandy. Good luck.

Ben

 

[PieEyedPiper]

If your Lucas poured in like honey you probably got the non-synthetic kind. That's just off my memory though of when I put mine in cause I've had both for when I was using conventional and synthetic oils. Make sure that you put in the synthetic lucas when you put in synthetic oil, although it sounds like you already figured out your problem is the turbo, but the mixture of the oil and wrong stabalizer could be bad later on.
Last thing, I don't know if it would make much of a difference, but I don't think you need to put in even amounts of the oil and stabalizer. I put in 3 quarts of oil and 1 quart of stabalizer and everything's just fine and dandy. Good luck.

Ben

Lucas is compatible with dino-oil and synthetic for starters.
2 quarts is a lot considering your only supposed to put in 4-5 quarts of oil total. (correct me if I'm wrong). But I can see no way how that mix would "blow your turbo".
A little side to side play is fine (key word here is a LITTLE). It's in and out that you gotta start worrying about.

Just drain it and use 3 quarts of Mobil One. Still got tick after driving it a week? Add some Lucas if you so desire. Some people like it some poeple don't.

If this magically remedies your boost problem, great. If not check all your vacuum hoses, your wastegate, and of course your MBC.
Good Luck!

EDIT: thanks for the correction guys I don't know why I put that number!

 

[Scott_S]

IIRC its 4 quarts not 3, also lucas doesnt really do a whole lot and IMO its not worth it

 

[InjenTalon96]

i thought dsm's run on 4 to 5 quarts...

 

[420Aturbopwr]

I thought the oil capacity on the 4G was 4.6 quarts? When i was checkin for shaft play i noticed oil dripped a bit form the intake side of the turbo, is this normal? My turbo won't push more than like 5 psi now, it think i f*$&*d it up.

 

[InjenTalon96]

I thought the oil capacity on the 4G was 4.6 quarts? When i was checkin for shaft play i noticed oil dripped a bit form the intake side of the turbo, is this normal? My turbo won't push more than like 5 psi now, it think i f*$&*d it up.

the oil that u saw was most likely the blowby caused by the crankcase vent tube that gets run to the intake. theres ###### alot more where that came from. u mite also wanna check for boost leaks to, i think its pretty weird that a certain oil would make your turbo not spool. have u drained ## oil out yet. if not put some 10w30 in there, ide say 5 quarts, that what i put in my 90 tsi and thats what my buddy puts in his 95 tsi.

 

[tsunari]

if not put some 10w30 in there, ide say 5 quarts, that what i put in my 90 tsi and thats what my buddy puts in his 95 tsi.

Why not just fill it up to the top fill line on the dipstick? WTF (which happens to be ~ 4-4.5 qts on my '97 GST)

 

[PieEyedPiper]

the oil that u saw was most likely the blowby caused by the crankcase vent tube that gets run to the intake. theres ###### alot more where that came from. u mite also wanna check for boost leaks to, i think its pretty weird that a certain oil would make your turbo not spool. have u drained ## oil out yet. if not put some 10w30 in there, ide say 5 quarts, that what i put in my 90 tsi and thats what my buddy puts in his 95 tsi.

I agree. Definitely odd that oil somehow ruined your turbo. I believe something else is wrong.
Either way, have you drained your oil yet?
What was the result?
Have you checked all your hoses and connections?
Have you done a boost leak test?
Have you checked the wastegate?
Have you tried adjusting your MBC?
How is your MBC connected? is it set up properly? I is connected to your BOV line?
If so, change it and observe.

It sounds like you're getting ahead of yourself before you've actually done any kind of trouble shooting.
Afterall..all you did was change your oil and add in some Lucas.

 

[420Aturbopwr]

I think I put too much of the Lucas the first time as it seemed very thick since it wasn't the synthetic kind. Yes I have now changed my oil and the turbo spools up but not like before so there might be another problem. Anyways i'm having a friend of mine with a SR20DET S14 look over the MBC, any boost leaks, or any other problems it might have. He's done plenty of 4G swaps. He even swapped his own SR. He told me i was crazy to put so much oil stabilizer in there and that it was too thick and wouldn't flow properly to the turbo. Hopefully there won't be any more problems, but as with any used dsm past 100k miles, i guess problems are just around the corner.

 

[420Aturbopwr]

Forgot to mention that when i drained the Lucas Oil along with the Mobil, damn that sh*t was so thick even hot. Screw additives......i think i'll just run synthetic oil. Found out today the p.o.s. plastic BOV is leaking. My friend told me get a Greddy Type RS with the recirculation kit.

 

[underradar92]

If its any help to you, my 140,000 mi. car had a lifter tick, which never really bothered me, when I got it last spring. I put in Mobil 1, cause its great oil, still ticked, I still didn't care. Towards fall I put in Red Line racing 30wt & someone pointed out that it doesn't tick anymore. I still don't care, but I find it interesting.