Sweetest exhuast I've ever seen!

[scotthidley]

I dont know what you guys are looking at, but there is no baffle in the muffler. it is a straight-thru design. I give up, stick to your dynomax mufflers, and shun innovation. And I would have hoped an engineer would understand how the system works, but when your seeing "baffles" I guess its apparent why it didnt make sense to you.

good lord! do you not read? The point obviously wasnt that the hose was stainless, it was that the hose is THERMALLY SHIELDED(and re-routed far from the pipe). wtf, is up with you guys?

There have been several engineers that have commented on this Bends add a huge increase in equivalent flow length. On top of that, you're putting a lot of stress on the connection to the turbo, as there's no other supports on the exhaust (don't be surprised if it cracks). Get some reflective heat sheild for the hoses that are close to it. You're not going to notice much if any difference in oil temp. Keep in mind that there's a decent amount of underbody airflow around there. It's good you're trying to do something new, but next time you need to put a little more thought into it.

 

[92redman]

I don't think the bends are going to be that big of a deal. On the 1g's there are approx the same bends in the exhaust, they are just more tubing in between the bends. The only real issues are going to be dealing with heating and probably cracking over time if left unsupported.
He has already addressed the heat issues many times and so did Mirage2lTurbo who has EXPERIENCE with an exaust in the engine bay so let's get off that topic for this discussion, please.

 

[lewroe59]

The pics were of the mock-up stage. Final fabrication will include flexible supports for the muffler. Thanks

 

[pboglio]

I dont know what you guys are looking at, but there is no baffle in the muffler. it is a straight-thru design. I give up, stick to your dynomax mufflers, and shun innovation. And I would have hoped an engineer would understand how the system works, but when your seeing "baffles" I guess its apparent why it didnt make sense to you.

good lord! do you not read? The point obviously wasnt that the hose was stainless, it was that the hose is THERMALLY SHIELDED(and re-routed far from the pipe). wtf, is up with you guys?

Hey, they're web site shows something different than a straight thru core. When I say straight thru I mean stick a rod thru the end of it without hitting something first, of course an angled core doesn't count here.

O.k. Let me rephrase. I've looked at the computer generated simulation of how this muffler works. Looks like an inverted cone with internal holes punched in it, thats going to add pressure drop. It DOES seem that the inside of the core is much bigger than the inlet or outlet pipes, so it has a CHANCE to flow better than a similar sized straight thru core that only has a 3" internal core size, but I doubt it. Second, it looks like its trying to show a split airflow thru the core, one spiraling flow on the outside of the flow and a straight thru flow thru the center. How they are able to rotate the flow without irreversable flow losses is beyond me. Your basically forcing the flow to keep turning thru a tight radius turn, again, more flow losses. Rotating the flow gains you nothing, its all smoke and mirrors. The initial fast expansion into the large muffler chamber alone is a BIG flow loss, I could go on. The best design is a straight large diameter pipe thats short. If they can manipulate exhaust waves for pulse tuning than thats a whole nother ball game, but thats not what they mention on their website. The only way to increase flow is minimize flow losses (no increase or decreases in area, no turns), decrease ambient pressure (reroute exhaust flow to dump into a low pressure area around the car), or keep the exhaust flow hot all the way thru the pipes (temperature differential is the "pump" that can help drive the flow). None of the energy equations show anything can be done INSIDE the pipes or mufflers other than minimizing pipe losses and heat losses. Wave tuning is a seperate issue which they don't claim. I'm going to say that your dumping on the side of the car is another bad idea. Your exhuast has to turn a hard right corner to get out, in an area I'm not sure is a low pressure zone anyway.

Man, take a waltz over to BURNS STAINLESS and see how a real exhaust system is designed, not some yahoo DSM manufacturer. The reason your setup still makes big power is that you have a huge exhaust pipe diameter and its only 2 feet long, of course pressure drops are minimal, just not optimal and everybody sees this but you. Aside from the nitpicking of the exhaust, I 100% think your REALLY hurting yourself with that exhaust manifold though. Take pics of the inside collector area if you can, maybe from their website.

 

[defrag010]

leakyfaucet: My opinion on the muffler is that it isn't crap. The only thing I've been doing in this thread is defending it when you seem to think it's a "tornado".

pboglio: Before the muffler was on the car, Lewis picked it up and looked through the muffler at me, and I could see him through it. It's design promotes scavenging: That's exactly what it does. You can't argue the facts that an exhaust system that promotes scavenging over a straight pipe will produce more power. The AT is proven to create less pressure drop than straight pipe.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

leakyfaucet: My opinion on the muffler is that it isn't crap. The only thing I've been doing in this thread is defending it when you seem to think it's a "tornado".

pboglio: Before the muffler was on the car, Lewis picked it up and looked through the muffler at me, and I could see him through it. It's design promotes scavenging: That's exactly what it does. You can't argue the facts that an exhaust system that promotes scavenging over a straight pipe will produce more power. The AT is proven to create less pressure drop than straight pipe.

I'd like to see some third party results before I believe it. An AEM cold air intake also adds 25hp on a civic (according to the manufacturer). Ship me one, ill strap my car onto the dyno and test it out. I'll pay shipping one way, if you want.

 

[leakyfaucet]

It's design promotes scavenging: That's exactly what it does.

You hear someone with an engineering degree explain why it doesn't work, and you still fight it. I don't see why the company would need to lie about dyno graphs if their product did in fact work. Come on... a 206hp 98 corvette that basically shuts down at 5k rpm? Wtf.

 

[pboglio]

leakyfaucet: My opinion on the muffler is that it isn't crap. The only thing I've been doing in this thread is defending it when you seem to think it's a "tornado".

pboglio: Before the muffler was on the car, Lewis picked it up and looked through the muffler at me, and I could see him through it. It's design promotes scavenging: That's exactly what it does. You can't argue the facts that an exhaust system that promotes scavenging over a straight pipe will produce more power. The AT is proven to create less pressure drop than straight pipe.

If by AT your refering to that muffler. I bet it might just outflow a straight pipe, because the darned thing has a huge internal area. Lets flow it against a 4"-6"
diameter straight pipe and see how it does then. You have to compare equivalent cross sectional area pipes.

I would think any scavenging is happening at the collector anyway, which the turbine wheel really mucks up. Look at the BURNS STAINLESS collectors, scavenging is happening in the individual header pipes and at the collector venturi. I know scavenging is also affected by the length of exhaust pipe after the collector, but I've never heard of scavenging in the muffler. I'd venture to guess that you've already radically messed with your scavenging just by increasing the diameter of the exhaust pipe and reducing its length. Whether you improved it or reduced it would be impossible to say without many prototypes. How can you time the rarefaction wave to bounce back just as the exhaust valve opens. I'd venture to guess the only scavenging that muffler is doing is effectively "shortening" the exhaust by 1 ft or so by the large increase in internal diameter, nothing more than that. I'd love to see a dyno test of it though.

You're so worried about scavenging in the muffler, which at best is minimal. But you've completely thrown away big gains in the merge collector. Just think of the flow losses and reversion that log manifold creates, even forgetting any scavenging effects. Its like worrying about a mosquito bite when somebody just hit you over the head with a bat. Whoever built that manifold and recommended it to you did you a great disservice. I'm right now looking at a BURNS STAINLESS turbo merge collector that I'd kill to get on my car. Ah, whatever, good luck.

 

[Hal]

Which header flows better, the one featured in this thread or this one:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[defrag010]

You hear someone with an engineering degree explain why it doesn't work, and you still fight it. I don't see why the company would need to lie about dyno graphs if their product did in fact work. Come on... a 206hp 98 corvette that basically shuts down at 5k rpm? Wtf.

someone with an engineering degree who has not seen, nor even Heard of the muffler doesn't magically know everything about it. I'm not on here claiming these things are gold, but they are certainly not the crap you guys are portraying them to be. Like I said, I'm gonna go with what I've seen with my own eyes vs. what some "engineer" (no offense) on the internet tells me how he thinks it won't work. There is only so much technicality you can apply to a car motor. I'd have more bias towards someone who is familiar with fluid dynamics in an exhaust debate, rather than just basic ol' engineering. The big thing, though, is How do you Know that they are lying on their dyno sheet? I'm not saying it's true, but you seem to think it's set in stone that they are fake. Maybe they shut down at 5k for a reason. I've seen worse. Remember, you haven't even heard of this muffler before today. Neither has anyone else. I've dealt with them in person. You, nor anyone else on here haven't. I don't care what engineer says what about it, you Can't form an unbiased opinion on something without having dealt with it in person. I think that topic has been highlighted numerous times in this thread.

pboglio: I didn't think compression and rarefaction waves had an affect on scavenging when they are After the turbine wheel. Pulse tuning at the merge collector is all true like you said, but pulse tuning after the turbine and in the manifold before the merge collector doesn't seem like it would relate. Like I said, I have no clue how it affects the pulse of the exhaust system, but I have seen official documents that show that it has better pressure drop than straight through piping of the same diameter .

Hal: I know the tubular manifold will flow better, but that's not what we're debating on. We're talking about the "crap" AT mufflers and how they are a "gimmick". I realize that lewis's log manifold isnt the most efficient thing ever, but the same manifold has produced 600something whp like he mentioned earlier.

 

[Hal]

I realize that lewis's log manifold isnt the most efficient thing ever, but the same manifold has produced 600something whp like he mentioned earlier.

I'd like a link to see for myself where this manifold did 600 whp on a DSM.

Hal

 

[BodyRage85]

Its a good different. I like it. POST SOME AUDIO CLIPS OF IT, I WANNA HEAR THAT BABY ROAR! .

Oh, and another thing, why you guys have to hate on people who are being creative and trying to find ways for making more power whether street or strip? I dont think theres anything wrong with that setup. If they can get away with it in their state why the hell not?? If it makes more horsepower, why the hell not??? If it impresses people or people think its really cool, THEN WHY THE HELL NOT????

You think Jeff Hill or anyone else who are DSM Gods would have gotten anywhere if occasionally they didnt try something different???????

To the guy whose doing that setup...get be4 and after dyno slips so you can shut these special olympic contenders up!

Keep up the good work guys

 

[pboglio]

O.K. dokey. Sticking to the muffler debate. Now, I have read and heard more differing opinions on wave tuning as it pertains to turbo cars. My own experience is that EVERY time I put on a 2.5" downpipe, after I already had been running an aftermarket exhaust system, I lost low end torque. I've also heard this is just due to leaning out and a quick adjustment of A/F ratios fixes this. NOPE. I really believe there is a small but noticeable scavenging effect EVEN on a turbo car, even as downstream as the downpipe. How? I don't know but a turbo car is not completely unlike a N/A car and we know how N/A cars can be HUGELY affected by changes in header/exhaust design.

That muffler and a straight thru muffler, are at best close in flow capacity. How do you think this thing is going to magically create horsepower just boggles my mind. You state yourself that you believe scavenging after the turbine is negligable, so how can it "create" more horsepower using scavenging? If I recall correctly, every 1 sq in of internal muffler area (based on 16" long core) flows 115 cfm at 1.5"of Hg (.75 psi) Its obvious this muffler has a core diameter in the 4"-5" size. Your probably comparing this muffler to a straight thru core with 3-3.5" diameter. Wow, pressure drops are less, no shit, its a bigger pipe diameter. I have to ask how the hell does this muffler actually reduce the noise level without any room for packing material? They are using a Jedi mind trick on you guys, the smarter members here are not fooled one bit.

 

[anconover]

Oh, and another thing, why you guys have to hate on people who are being creative and trying to find ways for making more power whether street or strip? I dont think theres anything wrong with that setup. If they can get away with it in their state why the hell not?? If it makes more horsepower, why the hell not??? If it impresses people or people think its really cool, THEN WHY THE HELL NOT????

You think Jeff Hill or anyone else who are DSM Gods would have gotten anywhere if occasionally they didnt try something different???????

We are ragging on it because it is not a good different. Is is a terrible design, and will only cause problems. Alot of people who think its cool, and awesome fo shizzle man. Lemme hear that baby roar vroom vroom dont realize, its a useless, and very poor design.

 

[jmakado]

Which header flows better, the one featured in this thread or this one:

I doubt anyone here even knows who makes it Hal as all the cheerleaders have yet to reply.

 

[wkd4g63]

If you are sticking your radiator fan on the other side of the radiator, are you going to have problems with fitting an intercooler? I have never seen a set up with the push through fans, just wondering how that works.

i had this setup on my talon and NEVER encountered a bit of abnormal temps..... ill post a pic of the inside of the AT muffler tonight!

JP

 

[lewroe59]

"I doubt anyone here even knows who makes it Hal as all the cheerleaders have yet to reply."
WHAT FOCKIN JOKERS. Why dont you read the original post to figure it out geniouses.

 

[pboglio]

I just looked at the website for this muffler, just to avoid confusion. Nowhere does it state a thing about scavenging. It only mentions the "jet engine" effect and vacuums sucking air out. Oh my god, I may just die of laughter :laugh: Snake oil anyone?

 

[anconover]

i think this thread should be deleted, so no one gets the idea of duplicating such a retarded exhaust setup. :laugh:

 

[defrag010]

I doubt anyone here even knows who makes it Hal as all the cheerleaders have yet to reply.

who cares? we're not talking about headers.

 

[BodyRage85]

well if they get some before and after dyno results we shall see if it a good setup or not...i think thats what it boils down to...if he gains 20-30 hp doing it all you glue sniffing idiots (aka ANCONOVER) will shut ur traps and copy his setup exactly, then say o yeah i always thought that setup was good blah blah blah just because now you have it.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, GET BE4 AND AFTER DYNO SLIPS THAT SHOULD SETLLE EVERYTHING!

REALLY GET SOME AUDIO CLIPS I BET IT SOUNDS NASTY AS HELL, ESPECIALLY ON A TURBO DSM!

 

[Hal]

What will before and after dyno numbers show?

I want to see how long before this car suffers a failure caused by under hood temperatures.

The choice of components is less of an issue than the potential for failure.

Like the saying goes... "ghetto go boom"

Hal

 

[gigahz95]

the only muffler I know increases power compared to open exaust.

Why not just make a whole exhaust system out of it then.

 

[pboglio]

defrag010,

Huh,

Bigger piping has "Everything" to do with scavenging. Pipe length and abrupt cross sectional changes (step pipes in headers or MEGs diffuser cones) also are used to control rarefaction waves. My downpipe observation is contrary to what everyone else says but my BUTT is pretty accurate, who knows. Your knowledge is like a hodge podge of what you picked up on DSMtuners and the Internet, a bunch of which is contradictory.

I take back a statement I made. I just remember that BURNS STAINLESS recommends a long diffuser MEGS style cone with a conical nozzle added after the collector venturi for good broad midrange power. So I guess scavenging can still be manipulated well downstream of the collector. I've done my homework, lets just set aside the engineering education for a moment. You wouldn't have the first clue how to tune an exhaust system, thats why you believe in that muffler so much. I'd love to dissect your rambling arguement piece by piece but it would make my post too long. I'm going to close on the positive. Please read
"Scientific Design of Exhaust & Intake Systems" by Smith & Morrison. That should at least help you dispell the myth that there are no "magical" tailpipes or mufflers that can extract gasses. Peace.

 

[anconover]

well if they get some before and after dyno results we shall see if it a good setup or not...i think thats what it boils down to...if he gains 20-30 hp doing it all you glue sniffing idiots (aka ANCONOVER) will shut ur traps and copy his setup exactly, then say o yeah i always thought that setup was good blah blah blah just because now you have it.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, GET BE4 AND AFTER DYNO SLIPS THAT SHOULD SETLLE EVERYTHING!

REALLY GET SOME AUDIO CLIPS I BET IT SOUNDS NASTY AS HELL, ESPECIALLY ON A TURBO DSM!

That is one of the dumbest posts to date that ive seen here. You must think this is a bling bling setup that will impress all your friends huh? The fact that some of the most knowledgable people on this board points out this setup is junk, obviously means nothing. Maybe you should add this super awesome 50hp gaining drag exhaust to your wishlist along with 'turbo and bodykit'.