1. Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

Stroker, Destroker, and Long Rod Engine Basics

Posted by WES_393, Apr 1, 2013

Please Support Southbay Fuel Injectors
Please Support Morrison Fabrication
  1. WES_393

    WES_393 DSM Wiseman

    3,125
    59
    Joined Jun 6, 2011
    Colo Spgs, Colorado
    Strokers, Destrokers, and Long Rod Engine Basics
    The details behind various 4g6X engine builds.

    The point of this article is to provide a better understanding of the various 4g6X based engines. To keep this short and sweet, I'll simply cover the specs of each build, the general Pros/Cons, and any additional notes relevant to that build. Also keep in mind this article was written with the 2g 7-bolt engine in mind. The basics still apply to the 1g 6-bolt and 7-bolt engines, but the build specifics may differ significantly. Here are the engines covered in this article.

    - 2.0 Standard
    - 2.0 Long Rod Stroker
    - 2.1 Stroker
    - 2.1 Long Rod Stroker
    - 2.3 Stroker
    - 2.4 Standard (DOHC)
    - 2.4 Long Rod
    - 2.2 Destroker
    - 2.2 Long Rod Destroker
    - 2.1 Destroker
    - 2.1 Long Rod Destroker

    If your just looking for the specs, scroll down to the bottom to see a simple data sheet.

    A few basic concepts:
    - More displacement equals faster spool and more power across the board.
    - Increasing stroke is the only way to significantly increase displacement on a 4g6X engine.
    - More stroke equals more power all around (good).
    - More stroke also increases piston speed (bad).
    - Less stroke (and more rod) increases rod ratio and decreases rod angle (good).
    - You can't change stroke without changing displacement.
    - To increase rod length without changing stroke, the piston and/or block height are changed.
    - Remember that only 1/2 the stroke distance is in effect at one time. A 100mm crank only swings 50mm in each direction. That's why 6mm shorter pistons are used with 12mm more stroke.
    - 7-bolt, 4g63, and 4g64 will sometimes be referred to as 7b, 63, and 64.


    2.0 Standard (4g63)

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 88mm
    Factory Bore: 85mm
    Rod Length: 150mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.375"
    Displacement: 1997cc or 2.0L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.70
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 9.62 FPS

    Pro's: The 63 has a relatively low Piston Speed along with low Rod Ratio. This equals less wear on the engine, less chance of damaging the engine by torque alone, and more reliability at high RPM's. When properly built, the 63 bottom end can rev to 10K rpm without risking damage. They are cheap to buy, easy to build, and still very popular all-around engines.

    Con's: Because of it's small displacement and stroke, the 63 lacks low-end torque and spool time is "normal". Higher compression pistons or power adders such as N20 are sometimes used to counteract this issue.

    Notes:
    Nothing special goes on here. Simply use parts for your specific engine (6b, 7b, 1g, 2g).


    2.0 Long Rod (4g63)

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 88mm
    Factory Bore: 85mm
    Rod Length: 156mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.130"
    Displacement: 1997cc or 2.0L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.77
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 9.62 FPS

    Pro's: Same as the standard 63, except higher rod ratio and lower rod angle which means more reliability at high RPM's.

    Con's: Same as the standard 63. There's no increase in displacement so spool is normal.

    Notes: Again, pretty straight forward. It uses stroker pistons to allow for the extra 6mm in rod length.


    2.1 Stroker (4g63)

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 94mm
    Factory Bore: 85mm
    Rod Length: 150mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.248"
    Displacement: 2133cc or 2.1L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.59
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.27 FPS

    Pro's: A little more torque across the board and slight increase in spool. It would make a nice, long lasting DD engine.

    Con's: It's a mild stroker, but still a stroker. The the rod angle is increased and piston speed is greater, so reliability and service life would be slightly affected. It would be more expensive to build as well since the 94mm crank is an aftermarket item.

    Notes: Nothing fancy, just use the right parts and everything should go smoothly.


    2.1 Long Rod Stroker (4g63)

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 94mm
    Factory Bore: 85mm
    Rod Length: 156mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.012"
    Displacement: 2133cc or 2.1L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.65
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.27 FPS

    Pro's: Same as the 2.1 Stroker, but uses longer rods for better rod ratio and angle. So you get the same stroke/displacement with greater reliability at high RPM and torque. Lower rod angle also means less wear.

    Con's: Even higher price than the 2.1 Stroker due to the 156mm rods. That's about it.

    Notes: Nothing fancy, just use the right parts and everything should go smoothly.


    2.3 Stroker (4g63 Block/4g64 Crank)

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 100mm
    Factory Bore: 85mm
    Rod Length: 150mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.130"
    Displacement: 2269cc or 2.3L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.50
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.93 FPS

    Pro's: Significant increase in torque across the board and considerably faster spool. A very nice engine for a street driven car. Easier to install than the 2.4 since the 4g64 is an NA block.

    Con's: Increased wear and poor reliability above 8-8.5k RPM due to the extreme rod ratio and angle. Faster piston speed will also accelerate wear.

    Notes: This engine uses the 4g64 crankshaft stuffed into a 4g63 block with standard length rods and 6mm shorter pistons. It's that simple.


    2.4 Standard (4g64 Block/4g63 Head)

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 100mm
    Bore: 86.5mm
    Rod Length: 150mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.375"
    Displacement: 2351cc or 2.4L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.50
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.93 FPS

    Pro's: Same as the 2.3; More low end power and faster spool.

    Con's: Same as the 2.3 Stroker. It's also not recommended to run boost with stock 4g64 internals, so building the engine is a very good idea. It's also a little more work to install and your limited in bore size.

    Notes:
    The standard 64 uses the exact same rods as the 7b 63, aftermarket and stock. Something like Eagle H-Beam rods for the 7b 4g63 WILL work in a 4g64. Same with pistons so long as the bore size is correct. An 86.5mm piston for the 7b 4g63 WILL fit a stock 4g64 block. Although the advertised compression will raise 1.5 or so. The biggest speed-bumps will be a proper timing setup and blocking the extra oil drains. Also, avoid 64 blocks from the 3g Eclipse and Outlander as they have a different bell-housing pattern and won't bolt up to a DSM transmission.


    2.4 Long Rod (4g64 Block/4g63 Head)

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 100mm
    Factory Bore: 86.5mm
    Rod Length: 156mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.130"
    Displacement: 2351cc or 2.4L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.56
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.93 FPS

    Pro's: The same torque increase as the 2.3 Stroker and 2.4, but greater reliability and less wear due to the longer rods.

    Con's: Same cons as the 2.4 with the added expense of longer rods.

    Notes: Same as the 2.4

    Before we go farther, let me explain exactly what a Destroker is. With the Stroker engines, your stuffing a crank with a larger stroke into the block. With a Destroker your doing the exact opposite: Using a smaller crank in a block meant for a larger crank. Specifically, an 88mm (4g63) or 94mm crank in a 4g64 block. Because of this, the rods have to be longer from the start and end up even longer. Their small stroke and rod angularity means they can be revved very high with little risk of damage.

    2.2 Destroker

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 94mm
    Factory Bore: 86.5mm
    Rod Length: 156mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.248"
    Displacement: 2209cc or 2.2L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.65
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.27 FPS

    Pro's: More displacement than a 2.1 Stroker with equal rod ratio and piston speed.

    Con's: Expensive due to the crank and rods.

    Notes: None


    2.2 Long Rod Destroker

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 94mm
    Factory Bore: 86.5mm
    Rod Length: 162mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.012"
    Displacement: 2209cc or 2.2L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.72
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 10.27 FPS

    Pro's: Higher rod ratio than the regular 2.2, so it's even more reliable at high RPM and torque.

    Con's: Same as the 2.2, except even more pricey now with 162mm rods.

    Notes: None

    2.1 Destroker

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 88mm
    Factory Bore: 86.5mm
    Rod Length: 156mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.375"
    Displacement: 2065cc or 2.1L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.77
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 9.62 FPS

    Pro's: This engine has the same stroke as the standard 2.0, but higher rod ratio and the same piston speed. This engine can handle high torque and RPM more reliably than a 2.0

    Con's: The limitations and set-backs from the 4g64 block will be the biggest problems.

    Notes: None.

    2.1 Long Rod Destroker

    Standard Specs:
    Stroke: 88mm
    Factory Bore: 86.5mm
    Rod Length: 162mm
    Wrist Pin Height: 1.130"
    Displacement: 2065cc or 2.1L
    Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.84
    Piston Speed @ 1,000RPM: 9.62 FPS

    Pro's: This thing has a better rod ratio than the Long Rod 2.0! These are very high revving engines. Many claim that they can reliably rev to 11k RPM and higher.

    Con's: Expense and limitations of the 4g64 block.

    Notes: This is by far my favorite engine build of them all. If you know what your doing and want a nasty street machine, this is your engine.

    That's it for now. If you have any questions or corrections, please feel free to send me a PM.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2014
    Loading...
  2. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

    2,848
    103
    Joined Jan 13, 2006
    Clarksburg, West Virginia
    Wes, I hope you don't mind; here is a list of all the displacements possible (that I know of) with 4G63 and 4G64 blocks, -this is from an old post of mine.



    Using an 88mm (stock 2.0L) crankshaft:

    Displacements:
    85mm bore = 1997cc
    85.5mm bore = 2021
    86mm bore = 2045
    86.5mm bore = 2068
    87mm bore = 2092
    87.5mm bore = 2116
    88mm bore = 2141

    Rod Ratios:
    All are off the shelf parts

    stock CH piston and 150mm rod = 1.70 (stock 4G63)
    stroker piston and 156mm rod = 1.77 (2.0L long rod)
    stroker piston, 2.4 block, 162mm rod = 1.84 (2.1L long rod destroker)



    For a 92mm Magnus crankshaft:

    Displacements:
    85mm bore = 2088cc
    85.5mm bore = 2113
    86mm bore = 2138
    86.5mm bore = 2163
    87mm bore = 2188
    87.5mm bore = 2213
    88mm bore = 2238

    Rod Ratios:

    Custom Rod Length

    stock CH piston, 148mm rod = 1.61
    stroker piston, 154mm rod = 1.67
    stroker piston, 2.4 block, 160mm rod = 1.74

    Custom Piston Compression Height

    150mm rod, 33mm CH piston, 2L block = 1.63
    150mm rod, 39mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.63
    156mm rod, 27mm CH piston, 2L block = 1.69
    156mm rod, 33mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.69
    162mm rod, 27mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.76



    For a 93mm 4D68 (Sirius 2.0L Diesel) crankshaft:

    Displacements:
    85mm bore = 2110cc
    85.5mm bore = 2135
    86mm bore = 2160
    86.5mm bore = 2186
    87mm bore = 2211
    87.5mm bore = 2236
    88mm bore = 2262

    Rod Ratios:

    Custom Rod Length

    stock CH piston, 147.5mm rod = 1.586
    stroker piston, 153.5mm rod = 1.650
    stroker piston, 2.4 block, 159.5mm rod = 1.715

    Custom Piston Compression Height

    150mm rod, 32.5mm CH piston, 2L block = 1.61
    150mm rod, 38.5mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.61
    156mm rod, 26.5mm CH piston, 2L block = 1.67
    156mm rod, 32.5mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.67
    162mm rod, 26.5mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.74 (OEM crank, long rod 2.2L)



    For a 94mm Eagle crankshaft:

    Displacements:
    85mm bore = 2134cc
    85.5mm bore = 2159
    86mm bore = 2184
    86.5mm bore = 2209
    87mm bore = 2235
    87.5mm bore = 2261
    88mm bore = 2287

    Rod Ratios:

    Custom Rod Length

    stock CH piston, 147mm rod = 1.56
    stroker piston, 153mm rod = 1.63
    stroker piston, 2.4 block, 159mm rod = 1.69

    Custom Piston Compression Height

    150mm rod, 32mm CH piston, 2L block = 1.59 (specs of the Tomei "22" kit)
    150mm rod, 38mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.59
    156mm rod, 26mm CH piston, 2L block = 1.659
    156mm rod, 32mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.659
    162mm rod, 26mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.72



    For a 97mm Crower crankshaft:
    No longer made by Crower. Not to be confused with Brian Crower. This stroke is still available from K1, maybe others.

    Displacements:
    85mm bore = 2202cc
    85.5mm bore = 2228
    86mm bore = 2254
    86.5mm bore = 2280
    87mm bore = 2306
    87.5mm bore = 2333
    88mm bore = 2360

    Rod Ratios:

    Custom Rod Length

    stock CH piston, 145.5mm rod = 1.5
    stroker piston, 151.5mm rod = 1.56
    stroker piston, 2.4 block, 157.5mm rod = 1.62

    Custom Piston Compression Height

    150mm rod, 30.5mm CH piston, 2L block = 1.54
    150mm rod, 36.5mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.54
    156mm rod, 24.5mm CH piston, 2L block = 1.60 (the long rod 2.3L)
    156mm rod, 30.5mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.60 (the mythical long rod 2.3L destroker)
    162mm rod, 24.5mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.67 (a unicorn, super LR 2.3L destroker)



    For a 100mm (stock 2.4L -or aftermarket-) crankshaft:

    Displacements:
    85mm bore = 2270cc
    85.5mm bore = 2296
    86mm bore = 2323
    86.5mm bore = 2350
    87mm bore = 2378
    87.5mm bore = 2405
    88mm bore = 2433

    Rod Ratios:

    stock CH pistons, 144mm rod = 1.44
    Tomei "23" kit, 147mm rod = 1.47
    stroker pistons, 150mm rod = 1.50
    stroker pistons, 2.4 block, 156mm rod = 1.56



    For a 102mm Brian Crower crankshaft:

    Displacements:
    85mm bore = 2315cc
    85.5mm bore = 2342
    86mm bore = 2370
    86.5mm bore = 2397
    87mm bore = 2425
    87.5mm bore = 2453
    88mm bore = 2481

    Rod Ratios:

    Custom Rod Length

    stock CH piston, 143mm rod = 1.40
    stroker piston, 149mm rod = 1.46
    stroker piston, 2.4 block, 155mm rod = 1.52

    Custom Piston Compression Height

    150mm rod, 28mm CH piston, 2.0L block = 1.47
    150mm rod, 34mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.47
    156mm rod, 28mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.529



    For a 106mm Brian Crower crankshaft:

    Crower states the 106mm crank must be used in a 2.4L block, stock 2.4L bore is 86.5mm.

    Displacements:
    85mm bore = n/a
    85.5mm bore = n/a
    86mm bore = n/a
    86.5mm bore = 2491cc
    87mm bore = 2520
    87.5mm bore = 2549
    88mm bore = 2579

    Rod Ratios:

    Custom Rod Length

    stock CH piston, 2.4 block, 147mm rod = 1.39
    stroker piston, 2.4 block, 153mm rod = 1.44

    Custom Piston Compression Height

    150mm rod, 32mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.41
    156mm rod, 26mm CH piston, 2.4L block = 1.47



    These are all of the engines that I know of that are actually possible to build with a 4G63 or 4G64 block. The most popular combinations are highlighted and well explained already in Wes's post.

    For other reference: the 2.4 blocks have a deck height of 235mm and the 2.0 blocks have a deck height of 229mm.

    The compression heights for the custom pistons I listed are based on zero deck. Those exact spec pistons may or may not already exist in the wild. See BogusSVO's Compression Ratio article to help you target your desired CR with whatever parts you decide to utilize in your build.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2013

    1K  5

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    1K  11

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    Colombiantattooer likes this.

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Archer Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing RockAuto SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Track Decals Track Sculptures VR Speed Factory WheelWell.com