Starting Issues

[Braedon]

Ok, I have searched alot and tried the different things that I have read, but I get nothing. I have put on a new starter, new battery, and checked the grounds. I know the starter is good because it was tested. I check continuity on the black/red wire on the starter relay by pulling the harness from the ignition switch and pulling the clip off the relay itself, I get continuity. I tried checking the relay the way my manuel says but the book isn't really clear, the steps say one thing and the picture says another. When I try to start the car, the starter will click as long as I hold the key. I get no voltage at the relay on the black/red wires. Basically I get nothing at the relay except continuity. I disconnected the clutch switch and tried it....no change. My car had a aftermaket alarm system on it before I bought it, I am think that I have a break in the wiring somewhere. The is no factory theft alarm relay in the car. This is getting very annoying. Any help would be awesome!

 

[luv2rallye]

If you're not getting voltage on the black/red wires then how can the relay possibly be clicking since those provide power through the ignition start switch? You must measure from the wire to ground - not across the relay which it sounds like you may be doing. Also are you sure it's the starter relay thats clicking, not the MFI, FP, or aftermarket theft alarm ones?

Know that the starter relay actually activates (clicks) to DISABLE the starter. This is when the clutch switch is closed or the (factory) theft alarm relay is activated (which may be the aftermarket theft relay in your case). When the starter operates the starter relay is not activated (contacts are closed). The green/black wire on the starter relay (pin 1) is the one that gets grounded to activate the relay (disable the starter). So if you disconnect it the starter should work. You can leave it that way if you don't care about the disabling functions [or remove the starter relay and jumper the black/red (pin 2 or 3) to the black/yellow (pin 4)]. If you want the theft alarm it sounds like that is the culpret and you'll have to track down why the aftermarket theft alarm relay (or whatever the green/black goes to) is activating (or supplying a ground).

 

[Braedon]

The clicking doesn't come from the relay, it comes from the starter itself. Thanks for the info, I will check the things you mentioned and post my results!

 

[Braedon]

Ok, tried disconnecting the green/black wire, still just get clicking from the starter itself, tried jumping the red/black with the green/black wire, and got nothing. I have tried everything with the clutch switch plugged up and with it unplugged and I get the same results either way. Any other ideas? I did find where a wire from the ignition switch had been cut and a relay was spliced in but took that out and wire it back up like factory. I am stumped!

 

[jjgrizz73]

I had an issue of the audio theft system. Everytime the car went to start the battery would get discharged and the car would just click. I think this is only an issue if you had the radio or battery discnnected for over an hour I believe, if you think it is that you can reenter the radio code and recharge the battery and it should start right up.

 

[Braedon]

I have an aftermarket radio, so I really don't think that is the problem.

 

[jjgrizz73]

Yeah so did I, I have an Alpine radio, I had to hook up the stock radio and enter the code then put back the Alpine. If you did have the battery or radio unhooked for a period of time I would try this, I know I was scratching my head for a few days before I did it.

 

[Braedon]

I don't have a factory radio and I have had the car apart with no radio or battery in before during a motor swap and never had problems like that before. Thanks for the info but I don't see that being my problem.

 

[luv2rallye]

The clicking doesn't come from the relay, it comes from the starter itself.

Ok if the starter solenoid on the starter itself is clicking, then the relays must be ok since it is getting enough power to click. Does the starter try to engage the flywheel or does it spin at all or does it just click and that's all? If just click you either have a bad starter or more likely (since you believe the starter is good), you have a poor connection on one of the big battery cables to the starter.

Poor cable connections from the battery to the starter is the #1 cause of starter problems. I'm talking the big cables. The ends can get corroded, dirty, not tight, or partially broken (inside) where the cable meets the terminal. If there is even 0.1 ohm resistance in the path from battery to starter, it will drop so much voltage when you crank, that there won't be enough voltage left at the starter (needs to be more than 10 volts at the starter). Remove and clean both ends of these cables (and what they connect to) and battery posts with sandpaper and tighten securely. Do both the battery positive to the starter and battery negative to engine (connection to engine must also be clean/tight – this is usually to a starter case bolt). Also try wiggling the cables to check for breaks.

After doing this if it still won’t crank, measure the voltage across the starter itself while cranking (+ lead on large postive starter terminal, - lead on starter casing or mounting bolt). If it's less than across the battery posts themselves (not terminals) while cranking, one of the cables is your problem and needs to be replaced. You can measure the voltage drop across each cable (from one end to the other) while cranking to find out which - should be close to zero. Or what’s easier is connect a battery jumper cable from battery negative post to engine block. If it now cranks your negative cable/connection is bad. If not, connect the battery jumper cable from battery positive post to starter positive post. If it now cranks your positive cable/connection is bad.

If all this ok measure the voltage right at the starter's black/yellow wire (comes from starter relay pin 4) when starting. Should be 12V (and also on starter relay pin 4). If have less than 12V but more than 0, you either have a weak battery or a partial short.

 

[Braedon]

Ok, I cleaned all of my connections and actually moved my battery ground off of the frame and grounded it to one of the starter bolts and viola! It now works! Thanks for all of the help!! Now I just have to figure out why the motor won't kick over and run....hahaha. Either way, right now I am happy!!

 

[2GeNTSi]

Glad to see you found your problem. I however still don't know what's going on w/ my car. I replaced all the battery cables, cleaned all the contacts, tightened all grounds, replaced starter relay, tested batter + starter (both good), replaced ign switch...I'm sure it's something electrical because it did it before the 6-bolt swap and it still persists. I get that click that's coming from the starter (not the relay) over and over, then eventually it'll start like nothing. If it takes quite a few times until it finally starts then usually it'll crank a little slow but otherwise it'll crank fine.

I'm thinking maybe the aftermarket alarm relay is bad or something.

 

[bojanglesracing]

Maybe burn contacts in the solenoid.

 

[2GeNTSi]

Ok so an update on my problem. I actually had it fixed for about a week, I replaced the starter with one from Autozone (w/ lifetime warranty) and it worked flawlessly for a week and now it's doing it again. I'm really really annoyed right now, I thought I had it fixed, but sadly I don't.

Is there possibly a better ground location for the one bolted to the firewall?

 

[resilva]

Matt

Did you ever find a solution to your problem?

-Richard Silva-
O.G. SoCAl Club DSM

Ok so an update on my problem. I actually had it fixed for about a week, I replaced the starter with one from Autozone (w/ lifetime warranty) and it worked flawlessly for a week and now it's doing it again. I'm really really annoyed right now, I thought I had it fixed, but sadly I don't.

Is there possibly a better ground location for the one bolted to the firewall?

 

[2GeNTSi]

Nah man. I went home not too long ago and decided to replace the starter again but I have even more problems with it. I took the liberty of replacing the positive cable and cleaned (again) all the contacts. I even tested the starter directly to the battery and it sounded good.

I found that there was grease accumulating on the starter gear. I think it might be the rear main seal leaking. I just brought it out to FFTEC today and am going to pick it up tmw to see what's up.

 

[resilva]

Matt,

I finally solved my problem.

This March 08 I replaced my clutch pedal assembly, while in there I had to take out the steering column and disconnect my alarm, ignition switch, and HKS turbo timer.

One thing I noticed was that my clutch switch was disconnected, not the one up by the dash but the one that gets activated when you depress the clutch pedal.

Finished replacing my clutch pedal and put everything back together including connecting my clutch switch, don't know if this had anything to do with the random starting issue. Since then my car starts fine every time.

One thing that did change was that the the door locks only open together but don't close together anymore.

Before this I had a new optima battery, new Mitsu battery to body negative ground cable, new Mitsu starter harness, new Mitsu Galant VR4 alternator, newish Mitsu starter, all these things helped but never fixed the starting issue.

I'm guessing I had an ignition, alarm issue that got resolved by disconnecting everything under the dash and reconnecting it.

-Richard Silva-
O.G. SoCAl Club DSM

 

[2GeNTSi]

I finally got tired of messing with things and just went a different route. I just made myself a push-button starter and it starts EVERYTIME now.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/303806-pushbutton-starter-setup.html