Starter struggling to crank engine *Video Update*

[Artago]

Hi all,

Bit of a unique problem here. Tried searching and failed.

This started a few days ago. Starter was having issues cranking the motor.

Sounded like it was either too weak to turn it over or there was something holding the motor back.

This got worse and worse over the past few days until today when it failed to start.

The starter turned the engine over once and did not have the power to turn it over again.

I tried again and could hear the starter trying to turn the crank over but failing.

Voltage is good 12.5V on new Optima Yellow top. Tested & good.

Suggestions?

Could it just be a dying starter? Has anyone come across this before?

DSM Starter issue - YouTube

DSM starter bench test - YouTube

Thanks,

Tom

 

[We're on Boost]

Well, on the bench it looks ok, the pinion gear throws out nice and hard. In the car it sounds like maybe the starter drive is slipping. In other words, the pinion might be engaging with the flywheel but then the "starter drive" or "Bendix starter drive" as it is sometimes called, slips, instead of turning the pinion (and the engine). The starter drive is an assembly that includes the pinion gear, and it would be replaced with a new drive assembly in any good starter rebuild. Still could be something else though. Good videos!

 

[Artago]

Well, on the bench it looks ok, the pinion gear throws out nice and hard. In the car it sounds like maybe the starter drive is slipping. In other words, the pinion might be engaging with the flywheel but then the "starter drive" or "Bendix starter drive" as it is sometimes called, slips, instead of turning the pinion (and the engine). The starter drive is an assembly that includes the pinion gear, and it would be replaced with a new drive assembly in any good starter rebuild. Still could be something else though. Good videos!

This is what I was thinking. In the first video you can hear the gear throw out and the start motor spinning but the engine doesn't crank. It sounds like it's just slipping.

I was going to put it back in the car and test it but now I'm reconsidering that thought because of the extra work involved in putting it all back together.

Thoughts?

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

You can take the cables to the shop and have them tested for resistance as well. Something I just did last week because I'm having a similar issue with a brand new battery and a OEM starter that tested better than the autozone starters on the shelf. So the last thing to check at least for me is the signal wire. The car has an alarm system and I'm thinking it is taking too much voltage from the signal wire if thats even possible but it's my next step anyway. Do you have an alarm system?

While your trying to crank you can feel around all of the grounds for heat, any heat should mean a bad ground or wire.

 

[damageinc0318]

Have you pulled your plugs and tried hand cranking over your motor , I had similar problem and it was my oil pump seizing up . I would check to see if you are having engine problems too

 

[95talongirl]

With the bench teest results, I'd be willing to bet its grounding issue, as well. My old Talon's main starter cables were extremely corroded, and it would do the same thing yours is; kicking the starter out but then "slipping." Look for the greenish-colored copper on the wires. If you spot any green, clean it up, but also make sure to check the wire at different spots to see if the corrosion extended up into the wire. I ended up having to replace the main ground wire from the battery to the started because the corrosion extended up over half the length of the wire! Once the new ground was in place, it started right up with no hiccups.

 

[Artago]

Have you pulled your plugs and tried hand cranking over your motor , I had similar problem and it was my oil pump seizing up . I would check to see if you are having engine problems too

I checked with the plugs in the motor. Felt no extra resistance.

 

[Artago]

With the bench teest results, I'd be willing to bet its grounding issue, as well. My old Talon's main starter cables were extremely corroded, and it would do the same thing yours is; kicking the starter out but then "slipping." Look for the greenish-colored copper on the wires. If you spot any green, clean it up, but also make sure to check the wire at different spots to see if the corrosion extended up into the wire. I ended up having to replace the main ground wire from the battery to the started because the corrosion extended up over half the length of the wire! Once the new ground was in place, it started right up with no hiccups.

That's a bit strange to me, maybe you can clarify this a bit. Why does it kick out (engage) and then slip? If the wires were corroded and not providing enough current wouldn't it just fail to turn the crank over and do nothing? Isn't the fact that it's slipping an indication that something is worn out in the starter itself.

I'm not arguing your advice (on the contrary, I appreciate it) but I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

I'll check/clean the ground, positive, and signal wire.

Cheers

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

Just curious if you have an alarm?

 

[Artago]

Just curious if you have an alarm?

I did. Avital POS. I removed the module. I also pulled the fuse for the factory alarm

 

[We're on Boost]

I was going to put it back in the car and test it but now I'm reconsidering that thought because of the extra work involved in putting it all back together.

Thoughts?

I suppose it depends on what is shorter - your time or your money
If it was me and I already had the starter out of the car, and I wasn't pretty convinced that the starter was ok, I would replace it with a good rebuilt or new one. If your starter is the original one, guess I don't know how many miles are on it, but they don't last forever. I would not consider it to be a waste of money to put a good new one in even if the real problem turned out to be something else. What would be a waste of money is to put a crappy new one in and then find out it was something else. In my case, I thought from the way mine acted, that it was the starter solenoid going bad. So I replaced the whole starter with a good new one. Turned out later that the stupid starter relay was actually the problem. Oh well, I have a nice new starter. The first time I went looking for my starter relay I couldn't even see it, there was a bunch of stuff in the way from the aftermarket alarm system, and I wasn't sure really where it was. DSM rule #1 - there's always something!

 

[Artago]

I suppose it depends on what is shorter - your time or your money
If it was me and I already had the starter out of the car, and I wasn't pretty convinced that the starter was ok, I would replace it with a good rebuilt or new one. If your starter is the original one, guess I don't know how many miles are on it, but they don't last forever. I would not consider it to be a waste of money to put a good new one in even if the real problem turned out to be something else. What would be a waste of money is to put a crappy new one in and then find out it was something else. In my case, I thought from the way mine acted, that it was the starter solenoid going bad. So I replaced the whole starter with a good new one. Turned out later that the stupid starter relay was actually the problem. Oh well, I have a nice new starter. The first time I went looking for my starter relay I couldn't even see it, there was a bunch of stuff in the way from the aftermarket alarm system, and I wasn't sure really where it was. DSM rule #1 - there's always something!

Haha, my time is definitely worth more than money to me. Can always make more money. Can't make more time.

After more research and consulting with various people I'm pretty sure my starter is bad. It's the original unit from the factory with 160k miles on it.

I got a reman starter today, it's sitting on my desk but I can't put it in until Wednesday (have a BBQ party planned for Tuesday).

I'll get it installed with pics and post an update. Wish me luck.

Tom

 

[We're on Boost]

Oh yeah, 160,000 miles, definitely not a waste then even if it still turns out to be something else. If it's still bad then probably the only thing left is - da dada daaaa - the starter relay but I hope the starter does it.

 

[boost97gst]

Ive got 200k on mine , lucky me. Lucky for YOU tho, its a 10 minute swap. youll b up n runnin in no time. congrats finally

 

[boost97gst]

Ive got 200k on mine , lucky me. Lucky for YOU tho, its a 10 minute swap. youll b up n runnin in no time. congrats finally

 

[Artago]

Hi all,

The new starter did the trick. I also cleaned all the contact points as per your advice.

Car fires up insanely quick now. About 1 second or less of cranking and it's on.

Cheers and thanks for all the advice.

Tom

 

[boost97gst]

COngrats!! Think i may be in for a new starter soon too.... womp womp

 

[We're on Boost]

Nice!