Spun bearings in 4000 mile 2.4 ideas for next time.

[AL92]

Ok yanking it out and rebuilding or replacing it. Few things that did wrong wondering if maybe that killed it.
I didn't use an oil cooler. Used 90 style oil cooler housing.
I ported oil relief hole since took out balance shafts.Maybe too much?
I used 10/30 dino oil not synthetic. Car leaked oil so much from so many places that synthetic would have cost too much.
I didn't install oil squirters.

I did have three overheats from sticking new oem therm. I shut car off each time immediately and no apparent ill effecst to motor that were obvious.No white smoke,no blue smoke so think no warped head. But maybe these overheats killed the bearings?

What is good amount of oil pressure to shoot for at idle and thru the range. Think heard 10psi for every 1000rpm so would shoot for 8000 rpm on my engine?
Oil was changed religiously in fact anally like six times in first 4000 miles.

I didn't pack the oil pump though first time. Used my impact to turn the pump on the stand though till oil came out. Not sure exactly how to pack the pump.

 

[1fastlaser]

that sucks man. I just got my g4cs out of my car friday. Crank broke on the edge of number 4 rod journal and the last balancer before the rear main. Im gonna take it apart today or tomorrow and hopefully get away with putting a fresh crank and bearings in it and get everything checked. The motor has about 9k on it

 

[AL92]

I am wondering if have same problem actually. It dont really seem like rod bearing. The car knocks and makes bad noises but stalls out every second .And maybe thought the slipping clutch was crank fubaring or something? What were the symptoms. did it just break and sieze or what? I am definitely going with the new eagle forged crank. the cranks seem to be a big problem in the 2.4. I used a 20,000 mile polished only crank. Car was rearended engine was mint. The eagle came out right after my build. My engine made 4000 miles maybe. So now you have me more curious to see what killed it but I would not be going stock crank ever again in a 2.3 or 2.4. If the crank is not fubar then guess sell it to someone else. Depends what let go in there but something did.
Please give me your exact symptoms and stuff. Even now my car will start but immediately die. I thought my timing was off. Would breaking the crank cause the timing to be messed also or what? My timing gears are right on still but maybe down below it isn't? So did your crank hurt your pistons valves or rods?

Sucks don't it!I miss my turbo already!

 

[GSTeclipse]

What Bearings did you use ?

And did you have a aftermarket oil pressure gauge ?
Was you geting oil pressure ?
Do you know if you where getting knock or not ?

 

[Burnett03]

Sounds like you just all around did a crappy half assed build. No wonder it spun a bearing.

 

[motomattxxx]

Strokers are also known for this.

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Hi,

In your other thread about this, you mentioned that you didnt have the engine balanced. Could this of caused you to spin a bearing?

Bill

 

[AL92]

I used acl coated bearings. I don't have aftermarket oil pressure gauge. I figured stock was enough. I never noticed any change in oil pressure but its off the oil sending unit off the housing so not sure if it changes depending on what happens in the actual engine?

I didn't balance the engine. I couldn't find anyone in my city of 200,000 that seemed to be able to do it. And quite a few people said they didnt' balance their engines and they were fine. And when guys take the balance shafts out of their 2.0 they don't balance anything if they remove them with engine in the car. Also heard you had to balance flywheel,clutch with crank ,rods and pistons. And figured be going thru a few different clutches and flywheels so thought that didn't make much sense. Course magnus and other builders must balance their engines without clutch?
So yeah if that was doing it half assed well guess so. I have built lots of v8s and never balanced one of them and never had any problems at all at reasonble rpm .I only set 8000 redline on the 2.4. I think crank is fubar personally .It sounds worse than just a rod knock and car don't run at all just stalls pretty much instantly.Only dissection will discover what really killed it. My theory is that 2.4 cranks are crap. I know of lots of 2.4 guys that have broke them now ,at 9000miles ,at various low mileage. I think the reason is the 2.4 is an NA crank from a 150 hp engine. So mabye they are different materials from the turbo 2.0 cranks. At any rate they are breaking. Mine was low mileage polished only. My engine was done bottom end by pro shop that builds many serious cars but not import cars mostly v8 monsters ,twin turbo stuff,etc. I am pretty sure it was assembled to spec. I have fluidampr balancer which figured should help in the balancing department. My engine had minor buzz at idle. mirrors were still clear. and past 4000 up it also had some buzz but not crazy. I have poly front and back inserts stock side rubber mounts.
So its a bit early to say exactly what killed the engine but dead it is.
So just suck it up and build it better the next time and this time will insist on getting it balanced as long as don't have to balance it with clutch and flywheel. I have not decided on clutch and flywheel yet.And if crank is indeed broken then for sure 100 per cent going with forged eagle one.And if its apart anyway going with forged eagle one.
Now would like some opinons on how important an oil cooler is and maybe I should not have ported the oil filter housing but heard of guys getting crazy oil pressure with no balance shafts and no oil squirters. Is it very hard to install oil squirters in my 2.4? Assuming still have 2.4 block to use. I may have to go to 2.3 if this 2.4 is fubared bad and can't locate another one.

 

[GVR4592]

Sounds like you just all around did a crappy half assed build. No wonder it spun a bearing.

I agree.

 

[AL92]

Well . It might have broken crank and it might have spun bearings. At this point its hard
to say. It knocks pretty bad as you rev it up and it stalls virtually instantly if you dont' feed it gas and it stalls even if you do. It could have been bad asembly ,it could be a lot of things. But many 2.4 cranks have broken so it could just as easily be that. If it is spun bearing then have to figure out why they spun. And the engine overheated three times but shut it down each time thanks to a f##king wonderful defective OEM thermostat. And who the hell is stupid enough to build an interference engine anyway? I am starting to wonder why I mess with these cars anyway. Even when they are running right they leak oil out of their zillion gaskets. Why do they need a zillion gaskets? And why did they put in balance shafts to break and take out the timing belt and why do the balance shaft bearings eat themselves and ruin your engine?
And why are you guys saying it was the build when you have no clue just how many things can go wrong with these little hand grenades with the pins pulled.

But see I am stupid just like you guys. I keep buying and modding these damn dsms!
But they are fun..when they are actually running!

And for the record my 96,97 and 99 trans ams never saw warranty. But fixing my dsms gives me some good tax deductions at least. And at least I have other cars to drive when my dsms are dead or really would be up the creek.

anyway guess change the heading not 100% sure it is spun bearing but sure something is fubar in there. Unless dsms are supposed to sound like russian tractors!

 

[GVR4592]

If the engine isn't built correctly things are going to break, you can't blame the crank, Mitsubishi, the thermostat, or the gaskets. My suggestion is to leave it to a professional next time.

 

[AL92]

Umm well mits made the damn defective therm and took awile to figure it out. Didn't think a mits part could actually be defective.

And read on board of guys running no oil cooler, no oil squirters in the 2.4 with forged pistons and there are quite a few guys that didn't balance their motors. At least I put a fluidampr on it. that mits balancer is another piece of crap had several fall apart at random mileage.

The engine was again assembled by pro shop ,not dsm shop though ,we don't have dsm pro shops in my area not within 3000 miles. But the guy is not an idiot. He has built many many engines. Still he don't have a dyno and is not a big name shop. And people are human and mistakes might have been made in assembly. Heck maybe my new mits oil pump failed.Although not much in there..a couple of gears,new gears mind you.

This discussion is getting old .We can discuss more once actually take it apart and will be sure to update the post as sure you guys are just waiting on the edge of your seats.
I will keep myself busy playing with my v8 cars and my other old broken down or breaking down dsms. Working on them is good therapy right? Someone has to keep mits in business buying parts.

And really I think the 2.4 cranks are not up to big power. Just search the forums for dead 2.4 cranks in big power cars. A lot of them. How many 2.0 cranks break? Don't think nearly as many. But maybe my crank is still virgin in there .I wish I had xray eyes some days it would sure be handy!

 

[Burnett03]

You half-assed the build, like i said before.. Why would you even run a brand new motor with no oil cooler, and one that leaks oil so bad? Mits didn't kill the motor, YOU DID. Big leaks= no oil the motor. No oil in the motor=spun rod bearings.

 

[bigjdog84]

Spinning the oil pump with your impact is not a good idea. Use a drill. If using an impact you can tighten the nut up way too much.
Pack the oil pump gears with assembly lube or vasoline.

Overheating the motor is not a good idea either.

Breaking in a motor without an oil cooler is the way to go. If using an oil cooler, you want to plug the oil filter housing up with some AN caps. Oil with bearing debri in it + oil cooler=bad. Debri will lodge itself in the oil cooler and break away later on down the road (think thousands of miles). An oil cooler is also not neccesary for 1/4 mile blasts, etc.

Just next time around be more careful and you shouldn't have these problems. Chalk it up as a learning experience. Good luck!

 

[AL92]

It seemed to work fine with the cordless impact. And I did put assembly oil in the oil pump just didn't do vaseline as wasn't sure if vaseline dissloves or what? So does it?

Course the engine will sit all winter and then when start it in spring I take out fuse and turn it over but can't prime it every year when it comes out of storage. Not like the factory primes the cars when they sit on the lot for long periods.

The overheating was due to faulty mits therm. It was very hard to figure out as that piece was brand new and didn't suspect it. Each time engine was shut down right away and car was not driven. And at least didn't warp head it seems as never blew any white smoke even at 25psi.

This may turn into a broken crank problem starting to think more and more it is.
Don't trust 2.4 cranks. Won't be putting another one back in. Might go 2.0 if have to but hoping the block is ok or can find another.I did like the extra torque and stuff of the 2.4.

Life is full of lessons and things break especially machines. I am depressed but not defeated.The talon will rise again. Sooner or later.Till then its doorstop in the garage.

 

[Talonguy5]

So, since you THINK it's the crank, you've decided all 2.4 cranks are garbage, and shouldn't be used?

I thought the title of this thread was "Spun bearings".

Shouldn't you check to SEE if it's the crank? If it is, does that mean it's the crank's fault it broke? Does that mean that ALL 2.4 cranks can't be trusted?

 

[AL92]

I checked timing and that was fine at least the timing gears are still perfect. Maybe its off under the cover. It made a noise that sounded like spun bearing I thought but buddy who knows a lot more than me says sounds more like crank. And trust his opinion. I am backyard mechanic he is much more experienced.
I am just saying that the 2.4 cranks are out of non turbo 150 hp engines. Now they might be fine in norma 300 or 400 hp build ups but mabye at 500 plus like I was running or the other guy I talked to that had his crank in his 2.4 break at 9000 miles well mabye the 2.4 are flawed for higher hp application. The 2.0 cranks are turbo cranks and proven strong.

So yes I don't think its coincidence that 2.4 cranks seem to break at high rates on big power cars. I polished it only. Kept rpm under 8000 .Was not tracking the car just made a few quartermile runs with it . So yes stand by my statement that if the crank is broke then the 2.4 cranks are junk in high hp turbo applications. And if its not broke then will sell it and buy forged eagle anyway .I dont' trust the cranks.
If its spun bearings well could be a lot of things caused that.
I tried to change thread title but pretty sure I can't. And I won't be taking out the engine shortly I am afraid I have many other cars to work on right now including several dsms.
But going to get my v8s running first since they seem much more reliable.

 

[Talonguy5]

500+ HP? What kind of boost were you running on this engine with less than 4000 miles on it?

Dyno chart? Trap speed? Did this happen at WOT?

 

[tqmx1]

Ok I am going to ask a dumb one, What oil filter housing are you using? If it is a N/T you are fine but if you are running a Turbo housing with out the oil cooler there is a BIG problem. The 90 turbo housing has a veratherm valve installed in it below 80'C the valve is open and bypasses the cooler, But above that the valve closes and puts the oil through the cooler.

If you have the oil cooler lines pluged and the veratherm closes the only way oil might get to the engine is to press past the veratherm (not likley and not much) the rest will be going past the pressure bypass and back to the pan.

 

[TimG]

I am just saying that the 2.4 cranks are out of non turbo 150 hp engines.

I guess my 2.0L non-turbo crank which is originally rated at 132HP is even worse. 26psi on it without a hitch but I guess the guy I sold the motor too will spin a bearing soon.

 

[Turbocharged]

I haven't posted on tuners in some time but I thought I would chime in.

AL92: We were in close conversation during your build. You negated basically every suggestion I had for you. Drop the oil pan and let us know what the ACTUAL problem is. I very highly doubt it's a crankshaft related issue considering your symptoms.

I'm sorry your motor didn't last long but you need to consider how sensitive mechanical components are when you are pushing serious power. I have over 20k on my 2.4; no issues yet and I recently checked main and rod bearing clearances (all is good).

Your V8 build WILL fail if you don't research and listen to experience individuals.

I would also like to know what occurred prior to the engine failure.

 

[turbo addict]

After reading around other boards and in here and talking to many dsm people I think that the 6bolt 2.4 cranks are not very good. The 7bolt 2.4 don't have any where near the problems that the 6bolts do. And I have decided to build a 7bolt because of this.

 

[Rick@AP]

After reading around other boards and in here and talking to many dsm people I think that the 6bolt 2.4 cranks are not very good. The 7bolt 2.4 don't have any where near the problems that the 6bolts do. And I have decided to build a 7bolt because of this.

Are you serious? There is nothing wrong with the 6 bolt 2.4 cranks. If you use junkyard parts you get scrap metal engines.

AL92 - You need to open the engine up if you want to know what is going on. There is no way around this. Once you open it up then we can intelligently discuss what happened.

On a side note, 500 whp on a 2.4 crank isn't really that much. My last engine was street tuned with about that much on tap and it also saw a lot more power than that on race gas. After years of use it is still serving its new owner very well.

Reliability is a function of the detail applied. Your V8s will fail as well if you don't pay attention to details.

 

[snox135]

Ok I am going to ask a dumb one, What oil filter housing are you using? If it is a N/T you are fine but if you are running a Turbo housing with out the oil cooler there is a BIG problem. The 90 turbo housing has a veratherm valve installed in it below 80'C the valve is open and bypasses the cooler, But above that the valve closes and puts the oil through the cooler.

If you have the oil cooler lines pluged and the veratherm closes the only way oil might get to the engine is to press past the veratherm (not likley and not much) the rest will be going past the pressure bypass and back to the pan.

Exactly!!! Most oil thermostats bypass 10% of the oil when open. But that is not enough oil for your engine.

 

[Turbocharged]

update?