Spun bearings in 4000 mile 2.4 ideas for next time.

[AL92]

Ok .Well did use a 90 turbo oil housing as far as I know. And don't have any cooler. So sounds like that would be the reason right there. Not clear .When does it mess up when its cold out or when its hot out..What do you mean 80C.. 80 centigrade?
What holes on the 90 do I need to use for the cooler. and pics ? I was going to order a cooler didn't realize it would fubar my engine. Damn..that sounds like a very good reason for things to go bad.!
Bet you hit the nail on the head.
So if that was the cause so next time around here are things I would do different.:
Were exactly is this valve is it in he housing ,thought is was in the oil cooler??
Again any pics or diagrams for me to better understand this.
Number 1 use an oil cooler.
number 2 should I port or not port the relief valve in the housing.
number 3 will use oil pressure guage but where is good place to put it to make sure get good readings and do I want about 10psi for every 1000rpm?
number 4 should I install oil squirters?
Number 5 I will balance stuff this time around.
number 6 still might go eagle crank .Can someone say for sure if the 2.4 is forged or not? hearing different opinions. And so why do you guys figure those 2.4 cranks are breaking .Do you think its overeving or turning the cranks. I know to only polish them only. And what is safe redline for a 2.4. 8000?

Any onther tips will be seriously studied. I try to think a bit on my own but it can get me in trouble it seems. I saw posts on board saying no cooler was needed. But maybe they were using the sandwich setup which I hate. How can I tell if my housing is non turbo or turbo? Its possible it is non turbo I have no clue just that its a 90 style cooler type.If that was the problem wonder what will be salvageable from my 2.4. Maybe its toasted crank,rods,pistons,turbo ,everything. Man that would suck. I might build a 2.3 if my 2.4 block is wrecked from this. I do like having bigger than 2.3 on my mostly all street car.
Also anyone making kevlar timing belt for the 2.4 yet?
Also if this oil thing took out my nice turbo does fp fix them up. I think heard the bb and not rebuildable but not clear exactly what that means. Hopefully have not toasted that also. I had inline oil filter in there .I have so far seen no metal in the top end when took the valve cover off. Can't feel any and no visible metal. I will likely tear into the engine in the next few weeks hopefully. I have a lot on my plate with my other cars and only so much time to work on my 97.

So was having the oil sender on the housing useless also? I never saw the factory needle dip down when revving it.

 

[paper_clip_boy]

PULL THE BLOODY ENGINE AND STOP SPECULATING.

Wow I hope to god you dont have a Mechanics License.

 

[tqmx1]

1 For your oil filter assembly are you planning on running a oil cooler sometime? If yes tave a hose made and tie the two fittings togther until the oil cooler is installed, If no pick up a N/T housing and be done with it.

2 I think that one has been beat to death over the years.

3 If it was me I would pick off your pressure after all the lower end oiling has been done. The best spot would be on the cylinder head where 1g engines pick off for there turbo lube, it reads a little lower but that is a true pressure after the bottom has been got.(the stock pressure is picked up before everything so if the oil filter plugged or any other restrictions happen you still show good pressure but little is getting to the oil gallies,)

4 Thats been beaten to death, Your call.

5&6 Your call.

 

[AL92]

I looked in my little haynes book and it shows relief valve but don't show this therm valve. Is it possible to see that valve or take it out.? Do all the housings have it built in them.

 

[tqmx1]

I looked in my little haynes book and it shows relief valve but don't show this therm valve. Is it possible to see that valve or take it out.? Do all the housings have it built in them.

The varatherm is between the two oil cooler lines. From that last statement you are not planning on running a cooler. If so just replace the housing and be done with it. And no the only one with the valve is the 90 turbo.

 

[AL92]

I wanted to run a cooler from day one just put it off for a bit. So I don't have lines on my car and no cooler.Just plugged the ports on the housing. So is that what likely killed my car or not? Any clear pics of this therm thing ?

 

[tqmx1]

Odds are it did not help. Just look at the housing and you will see it.

Until you get a cooler it would be safer to run a N/T housing

 

[AL92]

I do plan on an oil cooler I think they are good things. But hearing that blocking the plugs didn't cause oil starvation oil still went thru the engine. I hate when you keep hearing different things. What to believe. I will run a cooler 100% for sure from day one this time.

 

[tqmx1]

You see but you don't read, Blocking the cooler passages if it did not KILL the bottom end did not help it!!

If or when you put it back togther yes make sure the cooler is installed or use another housing.

As for the cooler it depends what you are going to be doing with the car, A 1/4mile pounder you do not need a cooler. now long distance/road racing yes the bigger the better.

End of story

 

[snox135]

You see but you don't read, Blocking the cooler passages if it did not KILL the bottom end did not help it!!

If or when you put it back togther yes make sure the cooler is installed or use another housing.

As for the cooler it depends what you are going to be doing with the car, A 1/4mile pounder you do not need a cooler. now long distance/road racing yes the bigger the better.

End of story

How can you possiably know that for sure. Most oil thermostats will bypass 10% of the oil that is supposed to be going to the cooler when open. Do you honestly think 10% of your oil flow is enoigh for your engine to live on?

 

[tqmx1]

Snox, I think were saying the same thing.

Off subject what's the summer looking like, I might be going to Oshkosh this year.

 

[snox135]

Yep, sorry I missed the "IF" in if it did not kill the bottom end

 

[SoonToBeDSM06]

Here is a picture of the thermostat on the filter housing.

http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=machv1842623576643ss.jpg

 

[tqmx1]

Yea thats it

 

[DNA666]

My God, pull the motor already. It has to be done anyway.

This thread is horrible.

 

[Turbocharged]

If you used an external oil cooler housing without a cooler:

1. The thermostat needs to be removed and plugged
2. The cooler feed and return need to be plugged

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The thermostat (oil cooler bypass valve) closes as oil temperatures increase. This redirects flow to the cooler. If you don't have a cooler, it simply restricts flow. Go check to see what housing you have.

I'm personally not a fan of porting the relief valve. The only time that high oil pressure is a concern is when the pressure relief valve fails resulting in excessive oil pressure at high rpms (when the pump is displacing the most oil). I know of many engine failures due to low oil pressure but not many issues related to high oil pressure. I'm not trying to start a debate, this is just my opinion... many people have done fine with a ported relief valve.

I just noticed something. Lets say you did have a closed thermostat on your external housing. If you had a ported relief valve that would only amplify the problem. The thermostat would shut causing pressure to build up between the thermostat valve and the pump. The increase in pressure would cause your PORTED relief valve to open, dumping your oil back into your oil pan...


Once again, what occurred just prior to engine failure?

Remove the oil pan and figure out what ACTUALLY failed.

 

[motomattxxx]

Agreed^. Porting a relief valve causes nothing but grief in about 90% of cases eventually. High oil pressure hurts nothing, low oil pressure is an instant killer.

 

[AL92]

Thanks for clearing that up turbocharged. I was going to run a cooler but didn't have a 90one and would have had to order it .I should have removed the therm thing. Now understand. I didn't and blocked the cooler line ports. And ported my oil housing.
I just had the idiot gauge and its off the housing so sure had oil pressure but not 100% that it was steady or what it was reading.
I don't even remember temps that day it might have been decently hot out. My temp gauge is always pretty low I have dual fans but might have had one fan off that day.
I made two back to back quartermile runs using no lift to shift ,stutterbox at 5000 and 8000 redline. Clutch was slipping bad or center diff was blown or something as was revving in 1st and 2nd but car was barely moving. Anyway after the two runs I was heading home. Car stalled out. It never stalls out. I restarted and it was knocking/rattling.It seemed to do it past 3000 but not under that. I had no cell phone and was miles from anywhere so didn't call tow truck. I figured to drive it 5 miles home and whatever happens happens. I have lots of cars but my 97 is one of my favorites..
Anyway It didn't seem to have much power but was not going into boost and was keeping it under 3000 where it seemed to be alright noise wise. It stalled again and restarted ok.
Then continued and was mabye 10 blocks from home. It stalled again and this time just heard a clunk .clunk when tried to start it. I figured engine siezed broken timing belt or something bad.
Flatbed by luck was driving by and he stopped and we got it home.
I pulled timing cover and checked the timing gear marks.Engine would turn over ok it seemed. Marks were still dead on.I pulled off valve cover and looked for any obvious bad stuff,broken springs, whatever.all looked fine. I pulled all 4 plugs. all were carboned and rich if anything not wet and not white. I was using dsmlink when was doing the runs but not logging them. I had knock light to come on at 2 degrees and wasn't really seeing it. Was at 21psi and tuned with very low timing on pump 92. like 10 degrees max and afr targets were like 11 to 1. Nothing crazy.
I did a restart in driveway and car stalled about 5 times just trying ot move it .it does restart so don't seem engine is siezed up yet. But it always stalls and it sounds bad. Knock rattle seems to be coming from around 3 or 4 mabye low . I have not pulled the pan. I have to pull transfer and all that and have been too busy with old father and kids and other cars. I did check oil on dipstick it felt ok and looked ok and under valve cover same.
I got a few of my cars that wanted to running so now can maybe put some time into my 97. It sounds like that mistake on the oil cooler thing has cost me my new motor.
I also had three overheats from bad new mits therm. Car was instantly shut off and towed or pushed home. I saw no white smoke to indicate blown head gasket or warped head.Car seemed to run great after that. I changed oil like six times in 4000 miles .Primed engine on stand and changed it, after 15 minutes. after hour or so. and then at 1500 and again at like 3000. Oil looked perfect every time nothing funny. Never found any metal particles previously when checked my fp3065 inline filter.
So hope this oil thing has not wiped out too much. I don't mind buying new bearings and
crank but hope dont' have to buy new pistons all new rods and new turbo. Or cams or whatever.
I was going to park this car till next spring but am itchy to fix it sooner but also want to do it better. Get shep or tre or whatever trans,dss axles, 4 spider diff and eagle crank if this 2.4 one is fubar. I don't know if should install squirters. if should get non ported housing you are using unported and do you have squirters installed? I will also balance crank and rods and pistons this time. I also had a zillion small oil leaks so will use think mits only gaskets this time around and loctite or lockwasher everything.

I dread looking in the pan but realize it has to be done. Darn thing was running so good too but the clutch slipping or whatever is another annoying problem. Going think twin disc this time around.Those new fidanza sound very sweet or clutchmaster fx 600. Anyway sorrry off the immediate issue. Spun bearing or crank..buddy thinks crank. I have no idea. Don't really want to start it anymore not much point. It has to come apart and more run it more damage potential I would think.