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South Bend Clutch Users Questionairre- looking for updates on everyone's setups!

Posted by twicks69, May 9, 2014

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  1. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    Mileage is revelant thats why tim had it as part of the survey.LOL copy and pasting without first hand experience leads to speading mis information and destroys a good thread in a heartbeat.
     

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  2. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    I didnt copy and paste anything, dude. I have a crapload of first hand clutch experience.
     

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  3. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    How about first hand experience with the clutch that's in discussion ( tz southbend full face ceramic?) Have you had any? Just curious.
     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  4. phunny

    phunny Proven Member

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    Either post all this crapload of experience or gtfo thanks, some of us are looking for the useful info being posted and not your opinion.
     

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    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

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  5. 95gstnate

    95gstnate Proven Member

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    Amboy, Minnesota
    Pressure Plate: SSX
    Disk Type: TZ series full faced Kevlar
    Specific Model Flywheel Used: Competition Clutch lightweight chromoly
    Duration of usage and mileage on clutch: 3 months and 4000 miles
    Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available: none yet
    Usage Type: Daily Driver, Street/strip
    Short Personal Evaluation Of The Clutch You Chose
    Would You Buy The Same One Again:
    Yes I would
    Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)? Nope the SSx is perfect for my power goals.
    Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time? No the tz Kevlar disc is holding very well
    If your clutch wore out, how long did you have it for and mileage before it wore out the actual friction linings as a direct relation to usage, not due to other circumstances like hydraulics, pedal assembly or adjustment issues. N/A
    I haven't had this clutch for very long but it works very well. Very nice drivability for daily driving and doesn't slip during launches.
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM
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  6. c2ypt1c

    c2ypt1c Proven Member

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    Alright, so after installing my new ss-x clutch I FINALLY was able to mount up the transmission (by myself). Anyway, I noticed the clutch fork is hitting the housing at the same point the bearing contacts the pressure plate:
    Photo07031835.jpg
    Photo07031833_1.jpg
    Sorry for the crappy pics...

    I'm assuming the flywheel needs to be stepped properly. It's a lightened XTD that I bought 80 years ago, but it had no problems with my ACT 2600. I'd really like to avoid machining a flywheel, so my question is...what flywheel will just drop in and work without machining?
     

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
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  7. fastfred

    fastfred Proven Member

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    *Specific model used
    ---Pressure plate type:

    -->SS-Series

    ---Disk type:
    -->TZ-Series full Kevlar

    *Specific model flywheel used
    -->ACT Streetlite Chromoly

    *Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
    --> 1800 miles, 3 months


    *Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
    --> trying to get to a dyno within the next few weeks. Dsmlink est. 396

    *Usage Type
    -->Street/Strip


    *Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
    -->Would you buy the same one again? Yes
    -->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)? No
    Good smooth pedal, engages/disengages great never had a better clutch in any of my cars dsm or other.
     

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  8. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    I have not measured the XTD stuff to know what they are dimensionally. I would pull the trans and measure what we are working with dimensionally for the flywheel as well as the measured step height and flywheel friction surface offset height from the crank flange so we know where the clutch is actually sitting at when installed. You could try 2-4mm of spacers under the pivot ball in this circumstance (1-2 washers). It seems off. Confirm your clutch disk is installed properly, that the starter plate is installed, that the flywheel bolts are installed 100ft/lbs with Loctite Red and the pressure plate bolts are 22-24 ft/lbs in star pattern with confirmation that the pressure plate is fully seated on the dowels against the flywheel step flange. Also confirm your TOB clip is installed properly and that the clutch fork retainer clip is flat against the fork and there is no slack in the pivot ball pocket on the pivot ball.
     

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  9. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    You seem to be the only one in here that has given good (informative) feedback. no one else has given any actual torque numbers. you say the SSX pressure plate has a soft peddle. What is that in relation to? what other pressure plates have you felt? what does it compare to?
     

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  10. Jaxness

    Jaxness Proven Member

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    You must not read very well, I've seen plenty of people post torque numbers. Myself included.
     
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  11. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    you clearly need some washers under the pivot ball. when flywheel has been cut (or an aftermarket that was never correct) it moves clutch assembly closer to engine and farther from pivot fork. this is why the pivot fork needs to be shimmed to bring it closer to clutch. a flywheel that was not stepped correctly usually means the pressure plate fingers are taller than they should be. so that shouldnt be the issue here. but the fingers should pull down and be nearly flat if step is correct.
     

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  12. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    well I just reread entire thread and there are exactly three who report tq numbers. 329 tq post 17, 417 tq post 18. and keltons. I had the SS TZ in my car and it did not hold 450tq after nearly 1500 miles of all city driving. So I am looking for real tq numbers over what I was making.
     

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  13. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    Well, you are at 90% of the rated torque capacity of the clutch using an SS/TZ on 450 ft/lb TQ.

    Which flywheel were you using?
    What was the measured step height?
    Was it evenly wearing the friction surfaces?
    Was the flywheel friction surface media blasted with an aluminum oxide blast media? If so, what grit?
    What is the vehicle weight?
    What tires were being used when it was slipping?
    What was the road conditions when it was slipping? Was this at the track or on the street?

    The SS/TZ is the most conservative clutch I offer as it uses a 2200# pressure plate on a full Kevlar sprung hub disk. It should handle those torque levels on the street under load when properly broken in, but it will slip when put on a prepared track for sure; the shockload of the launch coupled with the prepared surface totally changes how the clutch is going to react.
     

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  14. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    this is in my evo1. 2750 lb car. it was used with the factory flywheel. no media blasting. it wouldnt hold 4th gear rolling into it. the car dynoed 460/421tq. but it was hot 97 in the dyno. surely it made more tq on the street with 80 degree intake temps. didnt try launching it but once. it held launch very well. the friction surface was 95% bedded when it was removed. step height was not the issue. I like to use the least amount of clutch that is needed. the act 2600 has since held 500tq in the car but I would like to get to a softer pedal if possible. I was kinda miffed it didnt hold the power it advertised to. would like to try SSX pressure plate with either tz or tz/b disc. but I want confirmation this 2700lb plate is softer than the newer design 2600 (one with pressed bump in fingers)

    On a side note I just recently adding a hydro throw out bearing to my current act2600 clutch. I have been researching this for about 4 years and finally got it done. hydro bearing eliminates 3 friction points, eliminates pivot arm flex, modulates a good bit faster and shaves about a 1b. I will report later if it improves high rpm shifts
     

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  15. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    wdcoupe, post: 153444428, member: 83298"]You seem to be the only one in here that has given good (informative) feedback. no one else has given any actual torque numbers. you say the SSX pressure plate has a soft peddle. What is that in relation to? what other pressure plates have you felt? what does it compare to?[/QUOTE]
    I been fool
    I will give the run down of 11 years when when I get to a computer to much to type using my phone.
     

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    manual · 2G DSM

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  16. antilag_200

    antilag_200 Proven Member

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    *---Pressure plate type:
    -->SS-Series
    ---Disk type:
    -->TZ/B-Series Kevlar / Ceramic dual friction


    *Specific model flywheel used
    -->ACT Streetlite Chromoly


    *Duration of usage AND mileage on clutch
    Approximately 3 months of use, daily driven mileage is 1500 and climbing


    *Power levels and Drag ET's/MPH if available
    Recent Drag time 11.53 @ 126.2 (1.89 60', 97mph 1/8th )
    The vehicle is a 1991 eagle summit ( dodge colt) with AWD swap. It weighs 2620 ibs with me in it. The engine set up is a Stock internal 2.0 liter, with hks 272s, a FP3065 and currently on 93 octane fuel. Running 26 psi of boost and about 11 degrees of timing up top.

    *Usage Type
    -->Daily Driver
    -->Street/Strip


    *Short personal evaluation of the clutch you chose
    -->Would you buy the same one again? HELL YES!! I have recommended this clutch to quite a few dsmers in my area.
    -->Would you choose a different pressure plate next time (higher or lower clamp force)? It is difficult to say, the pedal feel is fantastic everything is working as advertized and I couldn't be happier with how it performed at the track. I also took the car to a road course, and after three 20 minute sessions, there were no changes in engagement and "feel"
    -->Would you choose a different clutch disk friction material next time? The car will at some point, get a boost in power, thus, if this clutch starts to slip or wears out, I will consider a different material. But I will cross that bridge when I reach it.
    Thank you for making an awesome product


    Picture of the car/engine bay
    View attachment IMG_4162_zps01bb0d0a.jpg
     

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  17. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    The SBC SS-X pressure plate is considerably softer than an ACT 2600PP. The reason why the pedal pressure is softer is due to the disengagement window of the pressure plate is shorter due to the location of the fulcrum (release ring) for the lever (diaphragm spring). The ACT will have a larger disengagement window but will take more effort to disengage while the SBC will require a properly functioning hydraulic system and pedal assembly to handle the shorter disengagement window while having taking less effort to actuate. Search for 1st Order / 1st Class lever for more information; the difference in effort is based upon the placement of the fulcrum.

    It was slipping on the dyno under load, or slipping on the street under load?

    Well, that is about the least amount of clutch for the job. If you want, do a full Ceramic disk instead of the Kevlar if you don't want it to slip while having soft pedal pressure.
     

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  18. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    well thanks for the explanation on the pressure plate. this hydro bearing I installed shortened the window substantially. the face of bearing is larger than dsm so it pushes the fingers open quicker with less travel. I was already considering drilling another hole on the pedal to get better leverage and some travel back. sounds like i will need to find a smaller than 5/8 master to use the ssx pressure plate. does the ss also have the shorter window?

    does everyone just use the smaller slave with SSX pressure plate? or is more tweaking needed?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014

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  19. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    without going into a lot of detail here's what I have used over the years most of the Act and Competition clutch units was used with all type of disc from sprung to unsprung.

    stock clutch-soft pedal feel
    act 2100-almost soft as stock
    act 2600-hard
    act 2900-same as 2600
    competition clutch I think its was 2700-hard but softer than the act 2600
    ssx older style-about the same as competition 2700
    South Bend Clutch Heavy Duty TZ-Series Kevlar - soft
    South Bend Clutch SUPER Heavy Duty B-Series Full-Face Sprung-Hub Segmented Ceramic Clutch
    (current) soft as stock
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014

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  20. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    OEM slave/master. I don't tell anyone to run anything different. You should have 3/4"-1" of overall slave travel at the slave rod to fork in an OEM pedal/hydraulic situation.
     

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  21. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

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    there are two sizes of OEM slave cylinders. 3/4 and 13/16. and there is a pretty big difference between the two as far as how the clutch works. with an act 2600 everything has to be adjusted perfectly to use the 13/16. the reward is a lighter pedal feel and excellent modulation. with the 3/4 cylinder the pedal pressure increases about 20%. but the clutch disengages quicker and the trans will shift cleaner. but its considerable harder to drive because you loose modulation. I like the 13/16 becasue you can use the evo 8 internals which have a double seal. the dsm cylinders have a single seal.
     

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  22. c2ypt1c

    c2ypt1c Proven Member

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    Actually, I haven't confirmed it yet but I think I broke the damn disk when trying to mount the trans up to the block. I was trying to use the mounting bolts to pull the trans in and while doing so, I remember hearing a pop. Oh well...a $300 mistake :banghead: Damn it! I'll have to order another one, gotta get her on the road again ASAP.
     

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  23. twicks69

    twicks69 Supporting Vendor

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    Hopefully you didn't damage your bellhousing as well. NEVER EVER use the bolts to draw in the transmission. It should EASILY slide on with the clutch disk aligned and the alignment dowels in place with a simple jackstand or chains on a hoist from above and zero load on the clutch disk hub from the input shaft. Also confirm you didn't break your front or rear motor block tabs.
     

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  24. c2ypt1c

    c2ypt1c Proven Member

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    The bellhousing seems fine and so does the disk, turns out it did not break. Now I'm not sure what the popping sound was...maybe the alignment dowel popping into place :confused:

    Anyway, I laid the XTD and ACT flywheels next to eachother and the XTD step was noticeably lower. After mounting up the new ACT flywheel, and making damn sure the transmission was aligned, the fork is perfectly centered with more than enough room to pivot properly now. Feeling pretty good about it...can't wait to get her on the track and dyno :hellyeah:

    So for anyone searching, ACT flywheels are very compatible with a southbend setup!
     

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  25. keltalon

    keltalon Supporting VIP

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    Glad you worked it out and thanks for the feedback:)
     

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