Somthing isn't meshing right with my car???

[BrokenTsi]

No. I've ran just about every flywheel you can think of, and I have never had an issue like this. I did have an issue similar to this when my base timing was too low. Aren't the FWD flywheels slightly bigger than the AWD ones anyways? Or is it vice versa?

 

[Slow91Laser]

Plain and simple the car needs to be on DSMlink.......

Stop worrying about the 2.5 exhaust thats not the problem like stated MANY people make power with 2.5 02's exhaust etc....

Even tho you cant tune link yourself im sure somebody in your area knows what there doing, and if your "mechanic" can burn chips/etc. im sure he knows something about link?

 

[MY1GDSM]

Op just needs to get some kind of Logs to look at so that everyone has a better Idea of what's going on...

In that sense ya the car could use Link...

But as I said above the end means to accomplish a tune Do Not matter... Coding is coding timing maps are timing maps the big difference is the UI that your using... at this point I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to be running it(for the logging rates mainly). But, to say he Needs it is not exactly a 100% true. Honestly a just as good option would be the original 98 ecu if it was flashable... .

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Plain and simple the car needs to be on DSMlink.......

Stop worrying about the 2.5 exhaust thats not the problem like stated MANY people make power with 2.5 02's exhaust etc....

Even tho you cant tune link yourself im sure somebody in your area knows what there doing, and if your "mechanic" can burn chips/etc. im sure he knows something about link?

He tunes link, aem's, ostrich/chips, safc, maft...etc
He highly recommends an aem over link though.
I plan on ordering link but I wasnt even going to put it on the car till I figured the issue out. Im sure it will make me faster but I dont think the chip is the cause of my problem.

No. I've ran just about every flywheel you can think of, and I have never had an issue like this. I did have an issue similar to this when my base timing was too low. Aren't the FWD flywheels slightly bigger than the AWD ones anyways? Or is it vice versa?

I'm not sure which flywheel is actually bigger. I know the RPM's drop faster with a lighter fly will on a FWD because the rotating mass is less...on a AWD there is so much moving that it doenst affect the decelerating that much.

Op just needs to get some kind of Logs to look at so that everyone has a better Idea of what's going on...

In that sense ya the car could use Link...

But as I said above the end means to accomplish a tune Do Not matter... Coding is coding timing maps are timing maps the big difference is the UI that your using... at this point I think it wouldn't be a bad Idea to be running it(for the logging rates mainly). But, to say he Needs it is not exactly a 100% true. Honestly a just as good option would be the original 98 ecu if it was flashable... .

I no longer have the original 98 ECU because back in 2004 I wanted to get rid of the speed limiter so I traded a guy my 98 ECU for his 97 GSX ecu.

 

[Slow91Laser]

AEM is money compared to link but both of them will be better then the chip you got now, atleast get some more info on whats going on with the car.......

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Ok I just broke down and purchased ecm link full version, speed density bundle, speed density PnP cable and the boost control solonoid. Im also going to have all of my 3" intercooler pipe replaced with 2 1/2" pipe.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I'm not sure which flywheel is actually bigger. I know the RPM's drop faster with a lighter fly will on a FWD because the rotating mass is less...on a AWD there is so much moving that it doenst affect the decelerating that much.

The impact a lightweight flywheel has on the deceleration characteristics of rolling in gear are negligible. FWD vs. AWD when the clutch is in, the rotating assembly (incl. flywheel) is as near as identical for our purposes and would experience the same pros/cons of the lighter flywheel.

 

[olmytsi]

Finally...don't understand why you spent all this money on a nice FP turbo setup and stuff and wanted to use a chip!

Now learn to use link and watch your car actually move...your setup should trap in the 120 range easily...people have run 10s with the 3052 (awd)!

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Finally...don't understand why you spent all this money on a nice FP turbo setup and stuff and wanted to use a chip!

Now learn to use link and watch your car actually move...your setup should trap in the 120 range easily...people have run 10s with the 3052 (awd)!

I originally spent all that money and tuned with a safc II and a maft....so the 95ecu and chip were a big step for me.

I still dont think this will fix the problem with my car, I just bought this so I could provide some logs. There is a guy on the link forums with the same problem as me.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Ecmlink v3 came in the mail yesterday along with sd pkg, sd plug and play cable and boost control solinoid for boost by gear. Now I just have to find time to install it.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

On the Link forums there was a guy having a problem that was very similar to mine. He had a VR4 and his problem was that his base timing was off 10 degrees. I have a 98 7bolt engine and from what I read the base timing isn't adjustable. Since it isn't adjustable is it even possible for it to be off and if so how does that happen?

 

[19BLACKGST98]

We removed the adjustable cam gears and verified base timing. No luck.

We unhooked the exhaust all together and that didn't do anything either.
Blocked off the HKS SSBOV and that did nothing.
Did a compression test and it was good across all cylinders. (150ish)

No matter what we do the car takes till 4700 to hit full boost. Then when we shift it drops down to 10 psi and takes 1 1/2 sec to get the boost back up. It is ridiculous how slow this problem makes the car....another one of the local guys has the same set up except he has a 1g throttle body and 2 1/2 in Intercooler piping and he hits full boost with the FP3082HTA at 3700 rpms.

The next thing he wants to do is check pressure inside the compressor cover and compare it with the pressure in the UICP.

Does anyone have any off the wall suggestions or anything...im about done with this car all together.

 

[91stocker]

May seem simple but have you tried a mbc instead of the greddy ebc?

 

[19BLACKGST98]

May seem simple but have you tried a mbc instead of the greddy ebc?

I suggested that to my mechanic and he gave me an explanation on why it wasn't it. (I don't remember why though)

I forgot to mention but on the dyno at about 5500ish RPM's the car would reach 450whp then just start dropping rapidly. At 20 PSI the car made a good looking curve and before it hit the wall it was gaining 20hp per psi increase on the boost controller. When it got to 450hp the more you increase the boost the less HP it would produce....its real confusing.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Could not getting enough blow by out of the head cause my problem? When the intake tube was off of the turbo it looked like some oil was blowing back through it. I have a single catch can (no breather on it) with the line coming out of the original location off of the head?

Compression was 145, 145, 145, 150. Motor only has between 2k - 3k since it was built. 8.5:1 forged pistons.

What causes bad boost recovery?

 

[JusMX141]

You have a wastegate problem. Either the EBC's screwed up or your wastegate itself is messed up somehow. Most of the time the issue is the sealing ring / valve seat is missing from the base of the TiAL gate.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/393913-15-psi-4500-hx35.html

Try bypassing the EBC first- run a signal boost line directly from your boost source to the wastegate. You'll only run spring pressure, but this is basically like running your wastegate system in Safe Mode for diagnostic reasons.

If that doesn't work, remove the gate from it's base and look for a sealing ring / valve seat. Everything you're describing here points toward a missing valve seat.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

You have a wastegate problem. Either the EBC's screwed up or your wastegate itself is messed up somehow. Most of the time the issue is the sealing ring / valve seat is missing from the base of the TiAL gate.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/393913-15-psi-4500-hx35.html

Try bypassing the EBC first- run a signal boost line directly from your boost source to the wastegate. You'll only run spring pressure, but this is basically like running your wastegate system in Safe Mode for diagnostic reasons.

If that doesn't work, remove the gate from it's base and look for a sealing ring / valve seat. Everything you're describing here points toward a missing valve seat.

Ok thank you. My next day off is Tues so I will get this done Tuesday morning and post the results later on that day. Thanks again.

Ive had the wg off the car in the last 2 yrs to add another spring but the problems been going on for longer than that.

For most of the last few years ive been running the car on wg pressure but ive just been removing the line going into the lower portion of the wg...is this any diffrent then what youve asked me to do? (i plug the hose I take off of the wg ofcourse)
Anyways when ive ran it like that I still have the problem. If thats not the same as what you mentioned above let me know and ill do it a diffrent way. Thanks.

 

[JusMX141]

Ive had the wg off the car in the last 2 yrs to add another spring but the problems been going on for longer than that.

Then it's possible the spring seat has been gone this entire time.

For most of the last few years ive been running the car on wg pressure but ive just been removing the line going into the lower portion of the wg...is this any diffrent then what youve asked me to do? (i plug the hose I take off of the wg ofcourse)
Anyways when ive ran it like that I still have the problem. If thats not the same as what you mentioned above let me know and ill do it a diffrent way. Thanks.

That would be wrong- you need to run a line from your boost source to the lower nipple on the valve and leave the upper hole vented.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Then it's possible the spring seat has been gone this entire time.

That would be wrong- you need to run a line from your boost source to the lower nipple on the valve and leave the upper hole vented.

Ok ill check the spring seat (im glad there were pics on the link you posted because I wasnt sure what to look for) and im sorry I had my wg nipples confused in my head...i only had a line running to the bottom nipple...but its connected to a plastic 5 way spliter coming off of yhe SMIM. Do I just need to run a new individual line to it straight from the SMIM?

Thanks again and sorry for all the dumb questions.

 

[JusMX141]

Run an individual line from the intake manifold so there will be vacuum to allow the valve to close- do not tap into the BOV line for your boost source.

If you were running a bleeder-style MBC, you should be sourcing that directly from the lower intercooler pipe for the least amount of delay in the wastegate function....but I'm not sure how your EBC should be run. It may need a vacuum source to evacuate the pressure from the wastegate's lower chamber and allow the valve to close.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Run an individual line from the intake manifold so there will be vacuum to allow the valve to close- do not tap into the BOV line for your boost source.

If you were running a bleeder-style MBC, you should be sourcing that directly from the lower intercooler pipe for the least amount of delay in the wastegate function....but I'm not sure how your EBC should be run. It may need a vacuum source to evacuate the pressure from the wastegate's lower chamber and allow the valve to close.

Ok ill run the wg its own line.

I have my wg dumped so if the seat is missing I should just be able to put my hand under the dump and feel exhaust flow correct? It looked like a very substantial gap from the pic.

Ok I have the Wastegate off of the car. It does have the valve seat:

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I have a question though. Should I be able to move the valve seat with my fingers? I can rotate it in circles and even pull it out a couple of mm...and it will push back in. I cant take it all the way out though (im sure I can if I take it apart).

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***EDIT***
Never mind I was wrong. I just pulled the valve seat out with my fingers with very little force....is that how its supposed to be? I really wish I could bump this thread right now.

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There is a little ring from the valve seat inside the WG...there is also a ring on the valve seat.

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[19BLACKGST98]

Do yall think the wg is in good working order? I have more pics of it to post when I get home from work. I took it completly apart last night.

 

[BrokenTsi]

Yes, you can move the valve seat with your fingers. It looks fine to me. Pull the top section apart and check the diaphragm. Sometimes the cover pinches it and tears a hole in it. Mine was pinched from the factory. It worked fine all season, then it finally tore a hole in the diaphragm and spool was slow and limited to only 20lbs of boost. However, it still didn't have that lag between shifts like your car.


*nevermind, I see the diaphragm in the background. Inspect it for tears or rips.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

I didnt see any tears or rips last night. I have a lot of pics ill post when I get off work.

Is there supposed to be a bronze colored ring that goes in with the valve seat? (like a synaps wg has?)

I took it all apart last night and looked to see if anything looked off to me:

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Here is a pic of the ware ring on the inside of the WG where the valve seat and the WG connect...does this mean they might not have been aligned properly? or is this normal?

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The ring on the far right of the valve seat was matched with the one at the top of the hole in the WG.

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Diaphragm inspection:

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The his pic next to a pick of a new WG make this diaphragm look flater..the new ones look more puffy.

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Put back together without the extra spring:

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I went out to see where all of my boost lines go and this is what I found:
The BOV had its own line leading to the intake manifold.

Then this cluster F***:

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Could this be the problem? Any idea how I can change that up and do they make in splitters that arnt cheap little pieces of plastic? I was going to go out and video me tracing all of the vacuum lines but it got to dark.

The far left line leads into the passenger side firewall...any ideas on what that's going to?(found out it goes to the EBC)
The one below it goes to the JMF intake manifold.
the one to the right of that goes to the lower Wastegate nipple. (how can I get it on its own line? another tap?)
The one to the right of that goes to my GM map sensor for the water/meth kit and a T from it goes to the AFPR.
The far right one leads inside on the drivers side for the autometer boost gauge.

 

[BrokenTsi]

Thats the weirdest little setup I've seen. I would re-do all of that. I could see that causing a problem. I'm assuming you had your shop/mechanic do that for you?

What do you have in your car that requires a vacuum line?

I would run the wastegate to a better boost source, like the compressor cover or lower intercooler pipe and have your MBC or EBC between that.