So this is the safest way to run PCV? [pics]

[ChiGGz]

Stole this from another post, but basically should I set it up like this but with an inline filter at the pressure relief tube (side)?

I'm running a GM-MAF after the turbo, so where should I place the other end of the pressure relief tube?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[oldman]

The system was not positive though, as gases could travel both ways, or move not at all, if conditions were just right.

Venting alone will relief pressure but it will not properly ventilate the crankcase, ventilate as in removing blow by and replace it with fresh air. This is the reason why your catch can smokes, open the oil cap or dipstick and you'll see the same smoke. Now hook up the pcv valve and watch the smoke magically disappears.

 

[brute]

Does it really matter? Figure out why you want to eliminate the PCV and get other solutions. In my case, mine was broken and leaked a lot, so instead of spend money getting a new one at the dealer, I used a check valve I had and it's worked fine ever since. You guys can argue all you want. MyBeatGSX, with all due respect, just because you're stubborn doesn't make you right.

Oh, and for what it's worth, Wikipedia is not a very reliable source for information.

Edit: No Skillz beat me to the Wikipedia bashing. And if only I had my digi camera here at school, I'd show you how I have mine set up. Right or wrong, emissions conscious or not, it works for me.

 

[No_Skillz]

Venting alone will relief pressure but it will not properly ventilate the crankcase, ventilate as in removing blow by and replace it with fresh air. This is the reason why your catch can smokes, open the oil cap or dipstick and you'll see the same smoke. Now hook up the pcv valve and watch the smoke magically disappears.

I believe people might better understand if you use "circulation" in place of "ventilation" from now on. Engrish.

 

[oldman]

I believe people might better understand if you use "circulation" in place of "ventilation" from now on. Engrish.

Nice try. Freaking ABCs. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ventilate&x=20&y=14

 

[PieEyedPiper]

You can say it as many times as you want, still doesn't make it true. Didn't you post a "why is my catch can smoking?" thread. RRE is not a good source for this discussion because both they and Taboo has been pushing vented catch cans for so long that it would be like asking TurboXS if a bleeder type mbc is better than a ball and spring type.

To OP, your original diagram is fine. To make it better, put the pcv back in the VC and add a nice heavy duty check valve where the pcv valve is. The Check valve will stop boost leaking into the catch can/crankcase while the stock pcv will regulate flow when under vacuum, and yes disabling your pcv or venting the breather will change the a/f ratio which anyone with access to the link forum would know. I would also install another inline filter(not fuel filter)/catch can on the breather line and reroute it back to the intake pipe to take advantage of the vacuum when under boost. Hooking up the breather after the turbo will result in boost leaks into your crankcase.

This is EXACTLY what I was getting at with that link I posted. Thanks for chiming in Oldman.

This thread was beginning to remind me of this one where a certain someone negates all reason and discussion with being as loud as you can be over the internet.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233737

 

[99gst_racer]

Please God, NO. Not another PCV valve thread!!!


ChiGGz - Regarding the line with the question mark; you have a couple options for it.
1. Run it towards the ground and you'll have a small occasional drip.
2. Run in into the intake pipe - pre turbo (just like the stock configuration). And you can use an inline, sealed catch can for this set-up.
3. Run it into a vented catch can.


Either way, that is your crankcase's fresh air source, so do not plug it. Make sure it can breathe.

 

[denniegst]

so is this correct oldman and the ones on his side?

<img src=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/denniegst/vent.jpg>

 

[oldman]

This is EXACTLY what I was getting at with that link I posted. Thanks for chiming in Oldman.

ha ha, somone must have combined that thread with bunch of other pcv threads. What a long ass thread.

denniest, that would be correct. But to satified Tyler's major concern, running another heavy duty check valve between the pcv and intake manifold will prevent pressure to ever leak into the crackcase through a leaky pcv while still allowing the pcv to regulate flow, our pcv system uses variable type pcv vavle which flows different amount of air under different amount of vacuum.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

ha ha, somone must have combined that thread with bunch of other pcv threads. What a long ass thread.

denniest, that would be correct. But to satified Tyler's major concern, running another heavy duty check valve between the pcv and intake manifold will prevent pressure to ever leak into the crackcase through a leaky pcv while still allowing the pcv to regulate flow, our pcv system uses variable type pcv vavle which flows different amount of air under different amount of vacuum.

While we're still talking about it, does anyone have a part number and aproximate cost for such a check valve?

 

[MyBeatGSX]

This is EXACTLY what I was getting at with that link I posted. Thanks for chiming in Oldman.

This thread was beginning to remind me of this one where a certain someone negates all reason and discussion with being as loud as you can be over the internet.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233737

I'm not trying to get loud at all. You can believe whatever you feel happy with. Its not a dead issue, you aren't 100% right either.

As for the other topic, I wasn't yelling or being loud, I wanted those lines to stand out VERY clearly so it didn't have to repeat or quote myself 15 times after that. Negates all reason? I was 110% right in that topic. Defiant can post in colored 30pt. font to flame newbies which is a huge rule violation (especially for a mod) and no one even flinches. But I can't enlarge my font just to make something very easy to see?


No_Skillz,
What are the positive benefits? Circulation of air in the crank case under 50% of driving conditions, and never during the conditions you need it? Is that worth the many downsides? I don't think so. But if you really feel so compelled to run with a PCV, then by all means go ahead and spend money on 2 catch cans, 15 vacuum hoses, and a check valve to make it work right. And in the end you gained what? 5lbs of extra weight, a lot of underhood clutter, and fresh air in your crankcase only when you don't need it and a poor/small vent source when you do need it.

I'm done with this topic, because in two seconds people will start flaming me because I'm stepping on toes now. I suggest this to the non-arrogant people reading. Take a look under the hoods of some high powered cars, Supras, Skylines, Silvias, etc. They all run the same setup... 2 valve cover breather hoses routed to a vented catch can, no PCV. Or better yet, research it for yourself. Because like the divided vs non-divided thing, this a settled and dead issue in every other automotive community.

 

[oldman]

I'm done with this topic, because in two seconds people will start flaming me because I'm stepping on toes now. I suggest this to the non-arrogant people reading. Take a look under the hoods of some high powered cars, Supras, Skylines, Silvias, etc. They all run the same setup... 2 valve cover breather hoses routed to a vented catch can, no PCV. Or better yet, research it for yourself. Because like the divided vs non-divided thing, this a settled and dead issue in every other automotive community.

Please show me one post where I was being arrogant to you?

 

[oldman]

While we're still talking about it, does anyone have a part number and aproximate cost for such a check valve?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229338

 

[No_Skillz]

As for the other topic, I wasn't yelling or being loud, I wanted those lines to stand out VERY clearly so it didn't have to repeat or quote myself 15 times after that. Negates all reason? I was 110% right in that topic. Defiant can post in colored 30pt. font to flame newbies which is a huge rule violation (especially for a mod) and no one even flinches. But I can't enlarge my font just to make something very easy to see?

This is just to bust your chops... from the looks of it, it worked.

No_Skillz,
What are the positive benefits? Circulation of air in the crank case under 50% of driving conditions, and never during the conditions you need it? Is that worth the many downsides? I don't think so. But if you really feel so compelled to run with a PCV, then by all means go ahead and spend money on 2 catch cans, 15 vacuum hoses, and a check valve to make it work right. And in the end you gained what? 5lbs of extra weight, a lot of underhood clutter, and fresh air in your crankcase only when you don't need it and a poor/small vent source when you do need it.

It varies from person to person, but since I only boost ~15%-20% of driving, I guess I get 75%-80% conditions where my oil is ventilated and I don't have to worry about fuel/exhaust contamination... which by the way is a big advantage. And who's to say that it's a small/poor vent source? Sounds arrogant to assume so. From personal experience it's enough to do the job. I also don't know any of the "many downsides" to a perfectly functional system that has 2 more vac lines, 2 catchcans, and a check valve (although I personally do not use the checkvalve or the catchcan between the PCV and the IM) and 5 more pounds (if the catchcans are made of solid steel). And if you get some cool colors for the vac lines and some polished catchcans, it looks PIMP! Clutter is defeated by coolnes!

I'm done with this topic, because in two seconds people will start flaming me because I'm stepping on toes now. I suggest this to the non-arrogant people reading. Take a look under the hoods of some high powered cars, Supras, Skylines, Silvias, etc. They all run the same setup... 2 valve cover breather hoses routed to a vented catch can, no PCV. Or better yet, research it for yourself. Because like the divided vs non-divided thing, this a settled and dead issue in every other automotive community.

I think it's pretty arrogant that you won't discuss with us anymore because we disagree with you. I really actually am interested in the good effects or advantages in your setup. I see no other instances of arrogance or bad attitude other than your replies. Thus far you have quoted alot of articles and pointed to alot of other automobiles. What is popular is not always right.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Don't read into it like that. That's were you also get the idea that I'm just being ignorant and loud and stuck in my ways because my daddy told me at an early age that PCV was for emissions. Like this....

Take some steps back from the position you have taken for so long, open your mind, go back and re-read some of our previous discussions as well as other web searched articles that suggests otherwise, information is only good when you choose to listen. BTW, I use to take the same exact position as you and have vented both the pcv and brather valve for years if that means anything.

The arrogant comment was refering to all the people thatwere ignorantly defending a position in past PCV discusions, most of which I'm sure are reading this one. I wasn't refering to anyone posting.

I suggest this to the non-arrogant people reading.

 

[brute]

Just to let you know, this is how I have mine set up:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I have one of those little ricer filters on the intake portion of the valve cover, and since my PCV doesn't work, I still have it installed to connect hoses to, but I have a check valve enroute of my catch can. This is the kind of catch can I have. It's for air compressors and works great:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

This is just to bust your chops... from the looks of it, it worked.



It varies from person to person, but since I only boost ~15%-20% of driving, I guess I get 75%-80% conditions where my oil is ventilated and I don't have to worry about fuel contamination... which by the way is a big advantage. And who's to say that it's a small/poor vent source? Sounds arrogant to assume so. From personal experience it's enough to do the job. I also don't know any of the "many downsides" to a perfectly functional system that has 2 more vac lines, 2 catchcans, and a check valve (although I personally do not use the checkvalve or the catchcan between the PCV and the IM) and 5 more pounds (if the catchcans are made of solid steel). And if you get some cool colors for the vac lines and some polished catchcans, it looks PIMP! Clutter is defeated by coolnes!



I think it's pretty arrogant that you won't discuss with us anymore because we disagree with you. I see no other instances of arrogance or bad attitude other than your replies. I really actually am interested in the good effects or advantages in your setup. Thus far you have quoted alot of articles and pointed to alot of other automobiles. What is popular is not always right.

First off, you aren't getting full PCV function any time you're off boost, as oldman said it varies depending on vacuum.

Who's to say its a poor vent source? I'm assuming? I'm not assuming anything. Its half the on boost ventilation that I have and I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that it still comes out those hoses under heavy pressure on the dyno. So even more vent area would be better.

Many downsides to a setup that actually works? Everything I listed, plus the most important one I forget, cost. Its not that the downside are so horrible, its just that what you gain is not work a puddle of rat piss, so why spend money and valuable engine bay space on it? If you think it looks good in there and you have money to blow, go for it, I said its your choice in the end.

Why won't I discuss it with you anymore (even though I seem to have been sucked back into it)? Because its all been said before. I could just quote my posts from the last PCV topic, why retype. You want to know my opinion? Go read what I've wrote already.

What is popular is not always right? Well its popular for a reason. The arrogance comes in when you, the tiny minority, think your right because you drive a DSM and you're better than the Supra, Honda, and Nissan guys. They have people that are just as knowledgable and they disagree with you. Need proof? As stated, look under the hood of any seriously modified one of those cars, NO ONE gets into complicated catch can setups and check valves. The all run it exactly as I discribed. This was beaten to death by the Honda community a long long time ago and that's the prespective I'm talking from.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Just to let you know, this is how I have mine set up:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I have one of those little ricer filters on the intake portion of the valve cover, and since my PCV doesn't work, I still have it installed to connect hoses to, but I have a check valve enroute of my catch can. This is the kind of catch can I have. It's for air compressors and works great:

That's how I ran it on my DD Saturn, but that was speed/density and NA. And yes those air compressor catch cans filter 1000x better than anything you could build or buy from a shop.

 

[oldman]

denniest, do you have any more follow up questions? This thread is about done since what can be said has already been said. I would like to close this one before it gets personal.

 

[No_Skillz]

What is popular is not always right? Well its popular for a reason. The arrogance comes in when you, the tiny minority, think your right because you drive a DSM and you're better than the Supra, Honda, and Nissan guys. They have people that are just as knowledgable and they disagree with you. Need proof? As stated, look under the hood of any seriously modified one of those cars, NO ONE gets into complicated catch can setups and check valves. The all run it exactly as I discribed. This was beaten to death by the Honda community a long long time ago and that's the prespective I'm talking from.

I really don't think arrogance plays a role here. My DSM is my first non POS car and this PCV setup is what I have found to work the best. Lets take a step forward and subsitute ignorant to describe myself and the others instead of arrogant. Please give us some links to these honda, nissan, toyota forums so we can ejumacate ourselves.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

www.hondaswap.com
www.honda-tech.com
www.homemadeturbo.com (not entirely sure about that one I don't I go there often)

Try not to be too alarmed by HMT, it doesn't quite have rules like this site... or any at all....

The search button works as well as it does here.

You're on your own with the Nissan and Toyota people, I don't really have a reason to go on those boards. Just ask one of them I guess, that's what I did.

 

[denniegst]

what is this "check valve" some of you guys are talking about? and its purpose? brute, how did you make that little nifty catch can?

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Its a true one way valve that will completely seal and keep boost from getting into the crank case, thus eliminating the biggest problem with the stock pcv valve. Someone posted a link back there I believe.

 

[oldman]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229338

Read that thread.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

No PCV (same setup as me)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

No PCV (RRE vented can)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

No PCV (same as me)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

No PCV (vented can)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

No PCV (big vented can)

That's what I found in about 2 minutes on a google search for "dsm engine".

And WTF kind of manifold is on that last one!? Never seen a DSM with a top mount, never mind a 45* angled top mount...