2G Small 16g with evo 8 fuel pump

[Allen2g]

hello, im looking to pair an evo 8 oem fuel pump which is rated 160lph? With a small 16g turbo. Wanting to know what the ideal psi i should run it at or should i just keep it stock @ 12psi?
Note my fuel system is basically all stock till the evo 8 pump. &currently car is mostly stock except an aftermarket bov, downpipe no cat, 3 inch exhaust no res only muffler, tubular manifold.

 

[EC17PSE]

Just upgrading pump dont mean you can raise boost. Its just a supporting mod. Read through this and our database for a wide range of help over the years and what to do and not to do, https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-dsm-upgrade-paths.486217/

At the end of the day your injectors will still only flow as much as the ecu tells them to so a pump means nothing. I would spend a few days or a week, read alot of threads and store alot of this info and also bookmark pages that interest you for your future plans. Sometimes you can also get good info from an external source aswel but almost all the time we have the data here and its been done

 

[stillrunning]

Honestly the best thing to do is invest in a wideband o2 and a logger so you can monitor your commanded AFR, wideband feedback, knock retard, knock sum.
Then you can turn things up in a safe manner.
However ~15psi should be safe on a stock engine in good running order.
The tiny stock side mount will be overwhelmed & heat soak pretty quickly as well as you increase boost.
Can you run more boost, sure, but you'll be seeing allot of knock retard.

 

[Airsign89]

The evo pump is rated at 190lbh, you should definitely re-wire it when installing it. As others have said, the stock injectors are gonna limit you, but after you replace them and get a tuning solution, that pump should handle most of what a small 16g can throw at it.

 

[boostdawd]

Having a bigger pump doesn't mean your ready to increase the boost. You need to have a way of controlling whats going on with your engine as well as monitoring. If money is tight then at a very minimum get an apexi safc and a wideband to see what mixture your running. Increasing boost is a quick way to see things go boom.

 

[curt-s]

As said, you need a method of watching your AFR, either by wideband (easier) or EGT (harder to interpret). Injector IDCs also give you a lot of insight into how far you can stretch your injectors and there is a set of RC on kijiji in Narol for sale but then you need to compensate by SAFC or ECU..

SAFC is old but capable tech, and also likely to be pretty expensive still up here. I would not even bother in 2019 when there are better options like Link or a blackbox. You will just end up replacing it and finding a buyer for that is not easy because we all tell the next group the same thing...

Yes, the evo pump can run and your stock FPR should provide reasonable control capability, but to be absolute sure you need to know what your AFR is. The ECU will command a pulse rate but who knows if the pump can supply or if the FPR is over/undersupplying until things go pop and I buy your car off you after you list it in frustration IDCs will not tell you that.
But at least, at 15psi you are not in danger of maxing out 450cc injectors.

 

[zedicus]

honestly a better pump and a pump rewire and a 16g set to 15-20 psi or pretty standard fair. most of the people saying to get tuning first and waving the cautionary tale have probably done it themselves with out any tuning and had good results.

my recommendation, would be to get a wideband and or some sort of tuning, before turning boost up.

 

[curt-s]

The problem also is there is a lot of assumption that all of the components involved are operating perfectly correct. A swapped pump with a problem can leave the mixture lean and you burn a hole in a piston or torch your head. A wideband, while also a component that can fail, allows for a reasonable level of operational trust. At least you can witness its behavior first hand and usually identify when it is giving you a load of BS. The rest of the fuel components are possibly 20 years old. Injectors clog, FPRs become inaccurate.

This is not really about debating whether 12 or 15 psi is too much. You really will not see THAT much of a difference at that level. It is about whether a fuel pump swap should be blindly trusted. I say no, and I back that up with my own past actions.

When you are messing with fuel, you need to know everything is playing out as expected.

The evo8 pump is also a 160L/hr pump at 12.5V and base fuel pressure, but can flow 201L/hr at 14V at base 43psi if you rewire. Your stock FPR might have a little trouble with that down low and your trims will reflect it if it does. It drops back to 160 around 58psi (15psi positive given 1:1 FPR rising rate). Overall it falls just short of a Walbro 190 at both 12.5V and 14V.

 

[Allen2g]

Gotcha guys, thank you. Reading the replies, ill just stick to 12psi? I really do want to keep everything safe and not push anything till i can get injectors, and something to tune with
I am new to all this, what is a wideband. Basically monitors the afrs right? & it just replaces the stock o2 sensor, and i am able to use the stock o2 housing for a uego right?

 

[curt-s]

in the most basic terms, yes, it is for monitoring oxygen content in exhaust and has a much wider range of measurement than our stock o2 sensor. Many (most?) new vehicles nowadays come with wideband already.

It can replace your existing only if it has the functionality to simulate a narrowband signal in hardware . You would feed that into your existing o2 circuit by either splicing wires or making up a connector/"adapter". If it does not you will need something else that takes a wideband reading and simulates a narrowband signal, like ecmlink or whatnot, by feeding the wb input into the ecu. That is how most of us do it because it also affords the ability to log a wideband signal which is a thousand times more valuable.

Otherwise you use your stock o2 as normal and have somebody drill and weld in an o2 bung 18-36 inches from turbine housing at a roughly 45 degreee angle downward and have the benefit of knowing if your closed loop is operating properly because you have two independent sensors trying to tell you the same truth. That is, of course, provided you do not have exhaust leaks otherwise you will chase your own tail. My Megan o2 housing had a complete crap of a turbine housing flange and let in so much air. Blew out the gasket too. Twice.

Next season, though, i am sticking mine up front so that i can stop mucking about with exhaust gas transport delays when adjusting my VE table. I might be getting to be pedantic with my accuracy..

Oh and i would go with innovate over uego any day of the week. I already did.. i had an earlier uego and sold it for an mtx-l. Maybe newer ones are better but the innovate just ... worked.

 

[stillrunning]

I use the analog display AEM UEGO so I can easily track the afr sweep and use it in the rear O2 location, works excellent really.
Really no need at all to install a new bung even though they say the closer up the better, mounted in the rear O2 location the wideband tracks what the ecu is commanding incredibly well when logging.

Attached is a ss of what a evoscan log looks like, the red line is commanded AFR, the green line is my wideband in the rear O2.
You can also see that MAF tracks very close to IDC and Load and PSI track very closely.

 

[Allen2g]

Tyty!! Yeah im going to stick to stock psi(12psi) till evo 8 pump & wideband.

 

[curt-s]

Any particular reason why you even want to at this time? Are you replacing a blown T25? I ask because with limiting it to 12psi I would wager you will actually enjoy your car less. Until you can support moving to 20psi and beyond you will just live in nothing but the lag zone of the s16g (as compared to the almost instantaneous response of the smaller snail). Just when it starts gettin' cookin' you dump exhaust out the bypass and reel it back.