Short block - need advice on the condition of used short block

[jetblue]

Hello, guys. I picked up this 7bolt short block from a junkyard and didn't look at it too closely (it was cold and snowing!) until I brought it to the shop. I've done a lot of car work but not so much with tearing into the engine other than timing, etc.

The reason for going with a used short block instead of rebuilding mine is strictly financial. I just want to get my car running again while I build my 6bolt up thru the year. Anyway, the idea was to buy this, bolt on the heads and go!... I didn't anicipate any additional work being required.

Is this something I can clean up? ...or will there be pitting I need to be cautious of?

Looking forward to getting back into DSMs!!

 

[kahl23]

Pictures always help. Are there any areas in particular that you're worried about? You're going to need to have the block machined at least. That means honed, decked, the crank should probably be polished, new bearings of course and you might want to overbore the block if you want to be thorough and are willing to spring for new pistons.

 

[kahl23]

Get that head gasket off and take a look at the deck underneath, also, oil all mating surfaces so that it doesn't keep rusting. The rust there doesn't look too bad, honing could take care of it, but I'd probably go with overboring. The best way to go forward is take the block to a machine shop and have someone with experience take a look at it.

 

[jetblue]

Added pic...sorry. Nice car... you have good taste... Not overdone.

 

[kahl23]

Added pic...sorry. Nice car... you have good taste... Not overdone.

Haha, thanks.

 

[jetblue]

Get that head gasket off and take a look at the deck underneath, also, oil all mating surfaces so that it doesn't keep rusting. The rust there doesn't look too bad, honing could take care of it, but I'd probably go with overboring. The best way to go forward is take the block to a machine shop and have someone with experience take a look at it.

The head gasket is off. What you see is the residue and pattern left.

I think I could remove pistons and hone out the walls. But my concern is the rust between cylinders in the closeup. I was told the head gasket was bad... don't know why. I don't know if it leaked between cylinders or somewhere else (oil/coolant).

Main concern (and question) is with the rust (and possibly pitting) between cyl's. Do you or anyone else have experience using engine blocks that have been pulled out of ponds?!

 

[jetblue]

Haha, thanks.

ANd then I saw your profile with the interior shots!... hehe

That's close to the color of my 92' talon. Yours is a bit bolder... I like it.

 

[MichaelSuch]

It should be fine with a nice cleaning. If you're worried about it, take it to a machine shop and have them look at it. They may resurface it or shave it some if it's bad...

 

[kahl23]

The head gasket is off. What you see is the residue and pattern left.

I think I could remove pistons and hone out the walls. But my concern is the rust between cylinders in the closeup. I was told the head gasket was bad... don't know why. I don't know if it leaked between cylinders or somewhere else (oil/coolant).

Main concern (and question) is with the rust (and possibly pitting) between cyl's. Do you or anyone else have experience using engine blocks that have been pulled out of ponds?!

Ponds? No, never out of ponds. Like MichaelSuch and I said, only a machinist can tell you exactly what's possible with the block. Generally if you have a broken gasket, you can see pitting because when exhaust gasses mix with coolant it forms an acid (crazy huh?). Look carefully in between the cylinders and around the coolant passages for pitting. Also, if you have the head and/or the exhaust manifold that came with the pond motor, look in them for whitish crystals, which are from the coolant that's spilled into the cylinders. If the block hasn't been machined before, you should be good, because they add a lot of extra material from the factory so they can be machined a few times over their lifespans. In the end, there's no getting out of taking the setup to a machinist, because you really should get the head and block decked at the very least.

Edit: Now that I look closer, that closeup shot looks exactly like a leaking head gasket to me. Pitting looks bad, but it should be fixable.

 

[jetblue]

It should be fine with a nice cleaning. If you're worried about it, take it to a machine shop and have them look at it. They may resurface it or shave it some if it's bad...

Yeah, I think I'll drive it up to a machine shop.... it's already in the trunk.

 

[odysseybiker1]

What machine shop are you taking it too. Where at in Cleveland are you from?

 

[jetblue]

Can a block be resurfaced with the crank still assembled to it (piston/rods are easy to take off)? I don't want to mess with the mains and thrust wahers. Like i said, this is supposed to be a 'temporary' fix until i build my motor and don't want t spend $K's.

 

[jetblue]

What machine shop are you taking it too. Where at in Cleveland are you from?

I'm from just south of you... Medina. Do you have any recommendations?

 

[MichaelSuch]

You'll probably want to take the crank and pistons out. I know my machinist doesn't like anything in there when he's doing work for me, plus they drop all kinds of metal shavings inside that could get into the grooves of the rings and you would have a ruined motor pretty quick if you don't get the shavings out.

You can take them apart and reuse the same bearings if you wanted to (they just need to go back to where they came from), but you could get some cheap rings and bearings for less than $100 all together and save yourself from a lot of headaches and confusion.

 

[kahl23]

Can a block be resurfaced with the crank still assembled to it (piston/rods are easy to take off)? I don't want to mess with the mains and thrust wahers. Like i said, this is supposed to be a 'temporary' fix until i build my motor and don't want t spend $K's.

You can usually take it to the machine shop with the crank in, but he'll take it out when he works on it, there's no getting around that. Besides, if it's been in a pond, there's going to be rust everywhere, you're going to need new bearings. Even if it hadn't been in a pond, new bearings are just a good idea. I'm not quite sure this engine can serve any sort of "temporary" use. It's going to need some work to get it in running order.

 

[jetblue]

You can usually take it to the machine shop with the crank in, but he'll take it out when he works on it, there's no getting around that. Besides, if it's been in a pond, there's going to be rust everywhere, you're going to need new bearings. Even if it hadn't been in a pond, new bearings are just a good idea. I'm not quite sure this engine can serve any sort of "temporary" use. It's going to need some work to get it in running order.

It really hasn't been in a pond... i was exaggerating based on it's condition. I'll try to find a shop open sat ...tomorrow.

thanks much for the advice.

 

[odysseybiker1]

Yea your really close to me. I know of this place in Eastlake but its kinda far. Its a shop called Powerline. I also know of another shop in Cleveland called Gellner Engineering. That's where i am taking my block to get machined. If you want any help working on it just let me know. I am always down for working on DSM's.

 

[odysseybiker1]

Powerline is in Willoughby not Eastlake.

 

[delta448]

This one won't be successful as a drop in ordeal. You've received good advice.

This block will need to be completely disassembled, caustic washed, overbored, decked and may possibly even require align honing and crank polishing, depending on how bad the orange death has invaded the mains area. It appears to be pretty unfit. I'm guessing it didn't turn over very easily when you tried. Get another one if you want a quick fix, this one will cost you to do right.

 

[anteversion]

The only and good thing to do when you are purchasing asmall block is to have it disassembled and verifing all pieces and parts ( pistons, rings, rod bearings, main bearings etc...) and this is one thing taht you can do by yourself. You will have to get the cylinders walls honed too. Just make sure that you are making 45 at 60 degree patterns while you are honing it! this is the way to go to have the pistons rings a good lubrification.
take a look at all the bearings and look for scoring and scratches. then torque everything to the specs

 

[kahl23]

It really hasn't been in a pond... i was exaggerating based on it's condition. I'll try to find a shop open sat ...tomorrow.

thanks much for the advice.

Haha weirder things have happened than an engine being in a pond. At this point I would put nothing beyond DSMers. Good luck man, shoot me a PM if you've got any questions once you've been to the machine shop.

 

[odysseybiker1]

I have a question are you going to be using all your 6 bolt parts? I don't think the 6bolt head bolts up to a 7bolt block.

 

[jetblue]

I have a question are you going to be using all your 6 bolt parts? I don't think the 6bolt head bolts up to a 7bolt block.

Not sure what I'll be doing yet. I've been in DSM's since 95' and have both 7bolt and 6bolt heads.

 

[MichaelSuch]

6 Bolt heads will bolt up to a 7 bolt block just fine. 7 bolt heads on 6 bolt blocks are a little different, the head stud/head bolt holes need to be bored out to 12mm. 7 bolt heads may have a smaller intake chamber, but they have a higher velocity. I say just run with a 7 bolt head and rebuild your 6 bolt head with an upgraded valvetrain.

 

[Cs4g63]

But you also have to remember that there are the 1g 7 bolt heads that have the large intake ports.