shop ruined my turbo

[nAiFk1e]

a seal on my turbo went out on my 2g factory turbo. i took it to this shop to put a 14b td05 1st gen turbo (rebuilt one.) i gave them the turbo, the oil lines and, the j pipe and they said they could do it. this morning they called me to come in and the line on top of the turbo right under the exhaust manifold had a hole in it from the heat from the exhaust manifold. so it started squirting oil all over my motor. he obviously didnt know this while he was test driving and some how managed to burn the hell out of the hood, including the new paint job too. im towing the car to my house tonight but does anyone know what parts i may need that i didnt already purchase. obviously a new oil line now but do i need a different exhaust manifold for the lines to fit properly? ALSO he said that there was no spot for a boost controller on that turbo so he was going to have to drill a hole to put the boost controller in? ...

 

[ramsack]

i understand your point too, but it is incompetence, and an oil line isn't going to be marked as an off-road part. it alters nothing to do with emissions or safety. i can't speak for all mechanics but if i was a tech and i did something so stupid i would take responsibility. i have worked on other peoples cars and snapped bolts and i take responsibility and fix it with my own money. many years ago i fried a friend's hard drive and he didn't even care and i replaced it any way.

if this was taken to court, they would take the incompetent tech's side because he has a paper saying he "knows everything." it's sad how it works and most places will not let you bring them parts for this reason unless they're factory oem i suppose.

 

[pboglio]

Yes, things need to be dictated EXACTLY, and I mean EXACTLY how they should be routed. You spoon feed a mechanic a part he has never seen, WITHOUT instructions and the possibility of installing it any way he feels like, what in the hell do you think is going to happen to that part? Is it going to miraculously work as INTENDED, or is it going to say, "#### you" and do what it wants to?
Did you ever consider the oil line MIGHT have shifted of its own accord and hit the manifold, say while doing something completely unlikely as taking off from dead stop. So it could have looked perfectly fine sitting where he placed it, idling with no leaks. IF it were designed with a restraining system, and possibly even a heat reflective sleeve, but it was omitted on install, with instructions TELLING him exactly what to do, THEN I'd go after his ass in court.

No guarantees on AFTERMARKET parts boys and girls, didn't you get the memo? The little "offroad only" disclaimer is there for a reason. I wonder what the insurance company would say if you told them the car had aftermarket parts, and one that was the DIRECT cause that burned the car to a crisp. I think the insurance adjuster would laugh his ass off while simultaneously denying your insurance claim. Maybe thats why the OP is going after the mechanic. Two sides to every story, and we haven't heard the mechanics side, that is certainly a fact.

And if any of you don't like the hard questions I'm posing, but your all gung ho about sueing, good luck in a court room.

 

[BIRDCLAWTSi]

I would have to agree and disagree with some points in this thread.
There is no "standard" in the automotive industry. ASE certification is a voluntary thing. Granted, Some places won't hire a tech without them, Most "techs" don't have any certification at all. That being said, There are alot of hacks out there. I personally have my ASE's (A1-A8) and attend classes once a month at an organization called TST (TST - Technicians Service Training: Welcome!)
Where leaders in the industry teach us alot of good information. Either way A botched install is just that. The tech is at fault when that happens, Regardless of design. Common sense should be a tech's first tool.

 

[blackrosenova40]

ASE certification is a money making gimmick and is completely useless.

 

[Lavery]

We aren't missing anything that was stated. I know the line was resting on the manifold. Yes, the mechanic rested it there, but the cupability is going to get back to the manufacturer for NOT providing ONE and ONLY one way of routing the line, and for having no instructions. A small claims court may see it differently, as the law and engineering logic and practice don't always agree. I'm stating to you how it goes in the world of engineering/manufacturing. If a manufacturer attempted to blame a service tech for wrong installation on a part that had a major safety design flaw, it would have no legs to stand on. I'll state again, you design for the "bubba" factor because you CAN'T blame the tech for a safety design flaw. Otherwise I could always have an excuse, but the blame is always back on the designer or manufacturer. IF the part is designed correctly, with installation work instructions, the service tech is trained, AND he still messes up or purposely ALTERS said part, THEN the blame is on his ass.

See, that line could route ANYWHERE. That is the point I'm driving home, installation is open to interpretation by the tech, and he is not a design engineer. I agree he was incompetent, but he simply exploited the lack of safety design features that should have been built into the oil feed line design. Your arguing on emotion. The shit always lands back in the designers lap, trust me.

Maybe i'm missing your point. But wouldn't this be the same thing as saying the manufacturers of diesel should be held accountable if "bubba" decides to put diesel in his Prius?

Point is there is a right way to do this and a wrong way. This tech decided to do it the wrong way. People should be held accountable for their stupidity

 

[nAiFk1e]

Yes, things need to be dictated EXACTLY, and I mean EXACTLY how they should be routed. You spoon feed a mechanic a part he has never seen, WITHOUT instructions and the possibility of installing it any way he feels like, what in the hell do you think is going to happen to that part? Is it going to miraculously work as INTENDED, or is it going to say, "#### you" and do what it wants to?
Did you ever consider the oil line MIGHT have shifted of its own accord and hit the manifold, say while doing something completely unlikely as taking off from dead stop. So it could have looked perfectly fine sitting where he placed it, idling with no leaks. IF it were designed with a restraining system, and possibly even a heat reflective sleeve, but it was omitted on install, with instructions TELLING him exactly what to do, THEN I'd go after his ass in court.

No guarantees on AFTERMARKET parts boys and girls, didn't you get the memo? The little "offroad only" disclaimer is there for a reason. I wonder what the insurance company would say if you told them the car had aftermarket parts, and one that was the DIRECT cause that burned the car to a crisp. I think the insurance adjuster would laugh his ass off while simultaneously denying your insurance claim. Maybe thats why the OP is going after the mechanic. Two sides to every story, and we haven't heard the mechanics side, that is certainly a fact.

And if any of you don't like the hard questions I'm posing, but your all gung ho about sueing, good luck in a court room.

i really dont understand why a mechanic would need instructions on installing a turbo. besides that if he didnt know how to do the install properly then why would he even take the job without having me sign something, stating whatever happens, happens with no liability. i did car audio, video, alarms, for years and every time i had a "shop damage" or a claim like the regardless of whos product it was it was my fault unless i made an agreement with the customer. the only time that i wasnt liable for something was prior to beginning the install having the customer sign because I KNEW something was going to go wrong with the parts he had given me.

 

[6boltpwr]

consensus is (which i think you already know) if you take a car, tell someone to order parts for car (the mechanic), parts come for car, put parts on car by THE MECHANIC, either 2 conditions exist

1. car is returned in WORKING order and owner signs paper releasing car back to him in same state as brought to shop.

or

2. car is not returned in order of which it was received and is more F***** up then how you left it.

You are in the right to take them to court and i hope you get the money you deserve. SOCIETY needs to relearn how to take responsibility for your actions...... wish our government could do the same not funny....

good luck man

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Two sides to every story, and we haven't heard the mechanics side, that is certainly a fact.

As they say, there's always three sides to a story. Theirs, yours and the truth

 

[pboglio]

i really dont understand why a mechanic would need instructions on installing a turbo. besides that if he didnt know how to do the install properly then why would he even take the job without having me sign something, stating whatever happens, happens with no liability. i did car audio, video, alarms, for years and every time i had a "shop damage" or a claim like the regardless of whos product it was it was my fault unless i made an agreement with the customer. the only time that i wasnt liable for something was prior to beginning the install having the customer sign because I KNEW something was going to go wrong with the parts he had given me.

Your not understanding is precisely WHY your car got lit up. The Mitsubishi service manual is detailed on the turbo install, and I consider it somewhat a public resource the mechanic should have had access to regardless. Not giving him those instructions is reasonable. An AFTERMARKET part that differs significantly from OEM and a part that YOU provided, I consider almost mandatory to provide instructions as well. And if they don't exist, you failed to make the parts selection wisely, and that is your failure as well.

Look at these instructions: Link: http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/subaru_oil/Full/sti_oil_line_install.jpg

I'd say good luck attempting an install on an STi without those instructions.

I hope you get your issue resolved one way or the other.

 

[LD25Delta9]

Wow...this thread got jacked all to hell...

ASE certification tests are not a money making gimmick. As previously stated they "weed out the weak and keep us sharp" I'd love to see the average backyard mechanic try to pass an ASE certification test... that statement was about as retarded on balls on a hen...

1. OP's bad for taking anything to a mom N pop unless you know them personally.
2. Mechanic's bad for eff'n up the OP's car. The mechanic is liable for any and all repairs, especially when the failed part was recommended by the mechanic and also improperly installed by the mechanic.
3. Shop's bad for trying to refuse reimbursement or responsibility for their moron of a mechanic. That's bad business. You should take 30 bucks and post an ad in your local newspaper about their bad business practices. So long as you don't state anything slanderous or untrue, they can't touch you for defamation of character. You should win your case...just thought I'd add my $0.02

Let this be a lesson to any DSM'r. If you can't handle working on your Dizzum yourself, you shouldn't own one. They are full of gremlins and headaches that will likely ruin the character and sanity of most modern mechanics. The
enjoyment of the vehicle AFTER all the headaches is what makes working on them yourself actually worth while.

 

[ramsack]

i see more people who are "certified" that barely know how to read or write or let alone speak much english that mess up cars all to hell or know anything about troubleshooting than "backyard mechanics" that mess things up. it really takes no skill to cram to pass a test, whereas real world wrenching and troubleshooting, and just knowledge about electronics, plumbing, and other mechanical things is pure skill.

 

[LD25Delta9]

Because you've actually taken the tests right? I have.... They're no joke.

 

[viprez586]

Like delta said, they're not easy. They do trick you - their not designed to be passed easily. In school - and all Lexus style tests it's the same.
Do you need ASEs? No - most certainly not. If a shop is going to pick between two guys with same experience yet one is Master certified and one has a couple ASEs - the manager would likely pick the Master certified.

Point is you can apply your knowledge on paper. What looks good on paper is exactly that - paperwork. It's a tool in your back pocket for future jobs.

Most troubleshooting and diagnostics is acquired through training and classes which comes with a certification. I'm not even going to develop on what you said about it because your statement was just plain ignorant to automotive diagnostic skills.
This has nothing to do with "just picking up a wrench and turning it".
"Throwing parts" at a car isn't "diagnosing" either.

With that in mind, go take 4 ASE tests(200-275Questions) in the allowed time(2hr?) and pass all four.

If your not a tech and/or haven't taken an ASE test you have absolutely no fact, or bias on how hard these tests are. That being said I ask you please do not throw your in-factual opinion around about them because you know some "hack" mechanic that has the damn ASE poster hanging in their front window of their shop. Unless your opinion has some justification, please share.
Simply put - some are better then others at test-taking.

This thread has gotten off-topic and I'm sure moderators are watching carefully.

OP - best of luck the shop IS liable END OF STORY.

 

[nAiFk1e]

sadly enough i most definitely agree that if you arent a skilled mechanic you shouldnt own a dsm. ive had more headache with this car than anything but besides that for now i need to get it running. i pulled apart the hose where it was allegedly ruined and the hose looked intact. im not sure why he told me that was the issue. now im trying to find where this oil is squirting out from but i cant seem to break loose these 2 14mm bolts on top of the exhaust manifold connecting to the turbo. my dilemma now is whether or not i should just break the hell out of the bolts jeopardizing them or just try and find the leak without taking the exhaust manifold from the turbo. the hose is a steel braided hose so im really having a hard time believing that is it but i dont know how to test it either. does anyone ahve any tips on how i should go about this. ( i tried taking it to a performance shop by my house and they told me the wait was over a month to get in)

 

[viprez586]

Heat the living shit out of the manifold and turbo around the bolts.

Usually I go drive around and do a couple WOT pulls before I initially crack loose my turbo bolts. Then I let things cool down before I begin to work on it.

You do not need to remove the manifold to gain access to the turbo...unless you want to completely remove the turbo. Even then I've removed my turbo W/o taking off the manifold.

Prime the oil system by cranking with the MPI fuse removed. Keep everything in-tact. With the pressure created by cranking the car over - you may discover your leak. Like i told you in PM.

 

[nAiFk1e]

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that hose just laying there was right above the turbo but i pulled it off. i pulled it off because i thought thats where the leak was coming from(that is where the tech said the leak was coming from.)

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this last one is where the burn came in... right above that the paint is bubbled up

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now i need to buy a new hose for the turbo and it is the hose that runs from the top of the turbo right next to the oil filter... can someone link me which one that is. ive bought the thing twice now and both times its the wrong one

 

[pboglio]

Um. I'm going to ask a dumb question, based on PIC #4 from the top with the brown braided line zip tied to the good braided line. The genuine Mitsubishi 16g CHRA does NOT use a compression fitting for the oil feed 1g Turbo Oil Feed Line, as your pic quite clearly shows you do have compression fitting. It uses a banjo bolt with copper crush washers. The T28 DOES use a compression fitting. The fact the EBAY heading CLEARLY states its for a T28 or 16g should be ringing alarm bells in your head.

I comment because I made the same mistake, but I was experienced enough to dry fit the 16g on the floor and the compression fitting threads and the mitsubishi compression threads are so CLOSE that it will thread in but not hold any real strength, and then pull out.

Before you go sueing anyone, I need to go home and check the measurements on my T28 oil feed line cause it looks dead on to your "16g" oil feed line, but would cause the failure on a 16g but work fine on a T28.

So lets not be so hasty in blaming the mechanic on this one just yet.

Edit: We need pics of your EXACT oil feed line as new, to make it work for all turbo's it would need a threaded adapter at the turbo to convert from one thread style (non-compression), to a compression fitting style.

 

[ramsack]

that oil return up at the turbo end of things looks butchered like the huge washers on the bolts are holding it on or somethin...

 

[nAiFk1e]

Um. I'm going to ask a dumb question, based on PIC #4 from the top with the brown braided line zip tied to the good braided line. The genuine Mitsubishi 16g CHRA does NOT use a compression fitting for the oil feed 1g Turbo Oil Feed Line, as your pic quite clearly shows you do have compression fitting. It uses a banjo bolt with copper crush washers. The T28 DOES use a compression fitting. The fact the EBAY heading CLEARLY states its for a T28 or 16g should be ringing alarm bells in your head.

I comment because I made the same mistake, but I was experienced enough to dry fit the 16g on the floor and the compression fitting threads and the mitsubishi compression threads are so CLOSE that it will thread in but not hold any real strength, and then pull out.

Before you go sueing anyone, I need to go home and check the measurements on my T28 oil feed line cause it looks dead on to your "16g" oil feed line, but would cause the failure on a 16g but work fine on a T28.

So lets not be so hasty in blaming the mechanic on this one just yet.

Edit: We need pics of your EXACT oil feed line as new, to make it work for all turbo's it would need a threaded adapter at the turbo to convert from one thread style (non-compression), to a compression fitting style.

i pulled it out and the hose is basically screwed im not sure how but there is a hole in the braided hose which is profusely leaking oil when its on. i ordered the CORRECT line from psi and hopefully ill have all of this squared away once that new line comes in.

 

[pboglio]

nAiFk1e,

Which line exactly was the one feeding the turbo out of all the pics you showed?

 

[viprez586]

Zoom out a little bit, place the hose in it's original position.
Pictures are a little hard to decipher.