shop ruined my turbo

[nAiFk1e]

a seal on my turbo went out on my 2g factory turbo. i took it to this shop to put a 14b td05 1st gen turbo (rebuilt one.) i gave them the turbo, the oil lines and, the j pipe and they said they could do it. this morning they called me to come in and the line on top of the turbo right under the exhaust manifold had a hole in it from the heat from the exhaust manifold. so it started squirting oil all over my motor. he obviously didnt know this while he was test driving and some how managed to burn the hell out of the hood, including the new paint job too. im towing the car to my house tonight but does anyone know what parts i may need that i didnt already purchase. obviously a new oil line now but do i need a different exhaust manifold for the lines to fit properly? ALSO he said that there was no spot for a boost controller on that turbo so he was going to have to drill a hole to put the boost controller in? ...

 

[ramsack]

twhat happened was they ran my oil lines right against my exhaust manifold and it burnt the line to hell...

how is this the owner's fault at all? a good mechanic should know to keep lines off of exhausts.

 

[rbwtrans]

To answer your question about the manifold... a 1g manifold ( the 14 comes stock on 1g's) is physically, visually nearly identical to the 2g stock manifold and will fit no different or place any part of the turbo in a different location. The only difference is the runner size and the end bolt hole size ( the 6-bolt 1g's use an 8mm stud in the two furthest mounting holes, while the 93 - 99's use a 10mm stud in this location).

 

[blackrosenova40]

I am a tech myself, and before I go drive a semi truck/Tractor I run and idle to check for leaks after a repair, before a test drive.

They installed a turbo, didnt check for leaks before test drive, there liability.

 

[pboglio]

The oil feed line had no provision for clamping it down securely to avoid damage, unlike the stock hard oil feed line does. When you design things, you have to account for the "buba factor". That means you take the biggest idiot and design a system even he can't #### up during an install. Did the oil feed line have an installation guide? If it didn't you have another big problem. Lesson learned, you don't need floppy oil feed lines for a 16g, buy the factory hard line.

 

[ramsack]

clamp it down to what? i have a stainless feed line that runs off the filter housing and it's not "clamped" to anything and it actually hits the downpipe. no problems!

 

[cfeyhris]

how to you get a hole in your metal turbo lines with heat? go after them and make them fix everything

 

[ramsack]

braided stainless line is still rubber inside...

 

[97gst_spyder]

braided stainless line is still rubber inside...

And you let it touch your dp.....

I run a E316G with the stock 2g manifold and the factory 1g oil feed and drain. No issues at all.

 

[ramsack]

and i said i don't have problems...

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Blah blah blah

1 : You Gave them the parts to install
2 : They installed those parts INCORRECTLY
3 : They test drove the car and fvcked it
4 : It's their fault.

They should have checked their work, period.

 

[pboglio]

and i said i don't have problems...

No problems yet. This is how his line failed. I have a stainless braided line for my clutch slave cylinder, and I wrapped it in split tygon tubing and clamped it in several spots to avoid chainsawing it thru the transmission case. This is alot to ask of a shadetree mechanic.

 

[ramsack]

stainless clutch lines are pointless....and the downpipe doesn't get near hot as the manifold. it rests on a heatshield clamp btw, not on the pipe itself. anyway it's been like this for a good 6 months and if someone would be wrong with it, it would've happened by now.

 

[viprez586]

stainless clutch lines are pointless....and the downpipe doesn't get near hot as the manifold. it rests on a heatshield clamp btw, not on the pipe itself. anyway it's been like this for a good 6 months and if someone would be wrong with it, it would've happened by now.

My clutch line made a huge difference in pedal feel.

Anyway I think everything that need's to be said - has been.

The install was improper, even if the line was not correctly positioned or had a pre-determined mounting "bracket" of some sort...the tech or service writer should have called the customer(OP) and notified him that it needs A) Additional work/labor to correct it, B) A different line, C) Installed as is - tech didn't road test but is really still liable to double check for leaks or proper operation despite what they should have told the OP - lines rubbing/resting on exhaust manifold(had they really notified him prior to in the first place).
The tech is at fault for knowingly "test driving" a car that had a potential for a critical failure resulting in major damage.


Someone didn't like my second post.
Kazoo - not really sure what you were trying to address in my post. I know this. And now the OP has provided additional information - making that post irrelevant. Anyway I work on cars everyday - I know very well about double checking my work and test driving for proper operation. Hell if something I made a mistake on - I'm fixing it for free - who likes to work for free. C.Y.A. C.Y.W. - Cover Your A$$ Check Your Work.

 

[pboglio]

I don't agree. I work in the design engineering field. It is not the responsibility of the "installer" or field technician to "rework" a product to improve its function or make it work safely. They can give feedback, but the liability lies with the company designing the product for the product failure. This is like a design engineer blaming the field technician for a product failure when clearly the product wasn't designed correctly. Now if the field tech didn't use the clamps to restrain the oil line, then its an improper installation at that point. See where I'm going with this?

I would say stop using shade tree mechanics, stop buying the shit they sell on ebay, and this lesson will teach you to analyze the parts before you buy them.

 

[viprez586]

I don't agree. I work in the design engineering field. It is not the responsibility of the "installer" or field technician to "rework" a product to improve its function or make it work safely.

Please re-read my post as this was not was I was implying.
The tech (if hes a good tech anyway) should have seen the inherent danger with the line's configuration,routing, etc. and notified someone to correct the problem. I don't understand why he wouldn't be liable. Tech installed it and did not check for proper configuration or operation is some half ass work. Instead he road-tests it and just says "opps your line failed". Something doesn't jive here.

In this case the line obviously failed due to touching/resting a 1000-1600*F manifold. We can all agree on this, yes. Any line would fail unless it's some crazy NASA product designed to withstand extreme temperatures.

I highly doubt it was because of a design flaw - more likely improper length, size, position, and mounting of the line.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

These are pretty much available every hardware/auto parts store too. Easy $1 fix rather then potentially thousands. Show me an oil feed line with a "provision" for mounting because this is likely the best way to mount/route them.

 

[ramsack]

OH MY GOD, the mechanical had the oil line RESTING on the exhaust manifold. what does this have to do with design of the product??? when it comes to cars nothing will ever fit perfect no matter how well it was engineered for mass production.

remember how computers would act in the days of shitty irq handling when one would get a new piece of hardware? there are too many variables (end user) for an engineer to possibly design into a product perfectly.

 

[pj91gsx]

Most likely your turbo is fine. You just need an oil line. I forgot about the importance to drill out the head bolt areas for a 1g 7 bolt head to go on a 1g6bolt motor, There was little oil going to the head and turbo. after about 1000 miles the turbos bearing locked up and run the exhaust week off the shaft. Also, i have a friend that had a car that was blowing turbos, because he didnt block off one of the balance shaft oil holes, He put my rebuild 14b on and still didnt make boost, it was blowing oil. after installing the balance shaft bearing correctly to block off the oil pressure, the turbo started making boost again. He took the turbo apart for inspection and it was fine and reassembled it, threw it on the car and works fine and doesnt blow oil.

 

[pboglio]

Viprez86,

What is the proper configuration of the oil feed line you gave the tech? Were there instructions, did you hand them to the tech? See, you are ASSUMING he should have done this or that. How come you didn't print out a DETAILED set of installation instructions with those cushion clamp pictures you just posted? See, the factory has detailed installation instructions for installing the turbocharger, though that is with factory parts. Do you not see a pattern here, factory tested parts, backed by the factory, installed by service techs who don't have to rework parts, who are trained on the proper installation of said parts.

Let me put it to you another way. Bring that same part to a Mitsubishi dealership, see if they'll install it for you. For the reason I just stated, they aren't going to touch that part with a 10 foot pole.

I'll show you a feed line with provision for mounting, its called the STOCK 1g oil feed line.

 

[romeen]

I run a E316G with the stock 2g manifold and the factory 1g oil feed and drain. No issues at all.

I'll show you a feed line with provision for mounting, its called the STOCK 1g oil feed line.

Agreed.

A few years back I considered changing it to a SS line because it was the "in thing." Talking to Lucas English he recommended sticking with the oem 1G hard line and said that's what they use on all their Mitsu turbo installs and shop cars (where applicable). He said they've never had a turbo failure using the factory feed line. Also, the factory line has an integrated restrictor so you're MHI turbo will get the correct amount of oil. Plus, you'll never have to worry about getting a hole due to exhaust heat and the shape of the line positions it close to the engine and out of the way.

 

[crazyquik22023]

If you gave the shop a part and the part that you gave them failed and caused something else to go wrong it is your fault... If the shop bought the exact same part and the same thing happened it would be their fault. It's the pure fact that you gave them the part.. you could have ordered the part straight from a dealership and they would still say its your fault. A shop usually wants to get parts themselves b/c they get it from people/dealers they "trust" Your parts = your problem. I think its b.s. too but its the way it goes...

 

[ramsack]

is everyone missing the fact that the shop put the line resting on the exhaust manifold? if the shop had policies in place or made this dude sign something that stripped them of liability from installing an end-user part, then they are in the clear, but it doesn't sound like this is so.

 

[pboglio]

We aren't missing anything that was stated. I know the line was resting on the manifold. Yes, the mechanic rested it there, but the cupability is going to get back to the manufacturer for NOT providing ONE and ONLY one way of routing the line, and for having no instructions. A small claims court may see it differently, as the law and engineering logic and practice don't always agree. I'm stating to you how it goes in the world of engineering/manufacturing. If a manufacturer attempted to blame a service tech for wrong installation on a part that had a major safety design flaw, it would have no legs to stand on. I'll state again, you design for the "bubba" factor because you CAN'T blame the tech for a safety design flaw. Otherwise I could always have an excuse, but the blame is always back on the designer or manufacturer. IF the part is designed correctly, with installation work instructions, the service tech is trained, AND he still messes up or purposely ALTERS said part, THEN the blame is on his ass.

See, that line could route ANYWHERE. That is the point I'm driving home, installation is open to interpretation by the tech, and he is not a design engineer. I agree he was incompetent, but he simply exploited the lack of safety design features that should have been built into the oil feed line design. Your arguing on emotion. The shit always lands back in the designers lap, trust me.

 

[ramsack]

there is NO design flaw. a mechanic should know that manifolds get hot and not to route it resting on it. this is what getting certifications to be a mechanic are. if a mechanic has to repair a brake line by buying some hard line and put it near an axle or driveshaft and it gets caught and twisted in that, you don't blame at all the design of the brake line. some things there are no instructions for like lines, that is left to creativeness. how hard is this to understand? common sense seems to be going down the toilet in this society, especially in the court systems where they are rewarding people millions of dollars all the time who don't have common sense and sue companies for stuff that is their fault. one would be when someone used cruise control in a winnebago and just went to sleep, and it crashed. they sued winnebago because they didn't say that cruise control didn't mean auto pilot and they won.

 

[pboglio]

The problem is, the OP doesn't see that he didn't exactly help the mechanic either. I had a body shop fail to reinstall oil in my transmission after an accident requiring removal and reinstallation of the axle. Trasmission failed promptly within 10 miles. They charged the insurance company after it failed, and they sure as shit didn't take responsibility for it. See, in that case they were stock parts with installation procedures for it which they incompetently didn't follow. In that case, I blame the service tech.

After market parts are labeled "OFFROAD" for a good reason, cause no-one wants to get them agency approved or pay for agency approval, and to cover their ass for a failure since 99% of aftermarket parts are MICKEY MOUSE ####ing shit designed by hacks without engineering degrees playing engineer.

Keep arguing with me, but you haven't had to take accountability for failures in the field. A tech is going to turn 180* and blame the manufacturer every time, and rightly so.

A judge may or may not rule for the OP, I'm not a product liability lawyer.

 

[viprez586]

Viprez86,

What is the proper configuration of the oil feed line you gave the tech? Were there instructions, did you hand them to the tech? See, you are ASSUMING he should have done this or that. How come you didn't print out a DETAILED set of installation instructions with those cushion clamp pictures you just posted? See, the factory has detailed installation instructions for installing the turbocharger, though that is with factory parts. Do you not see a pattern here, factory tested parts, backed by the factory, installed by service techs who don't have to rework parts, who are trained on the proper installation of said parts.

Let me put it to you another way. Bring that same part to a Mitsubishi dealership, see if they'll install it for you. For the reason I just stated, they aren't going to touch that part with a 10 foot pole.

I'll show you a feed line with provision for mounting, its called the STOCK 1g oil feed line.

Your absolutely correct I would assume that the tech would be smart enough to not let an oil line rest on a exhaust manifold. Your missing the point and arguing your "manufacturing design" because the sky is blue.
I understand completely your point of the "design" engineering background. Good for you, but I'm a Tech at Lexus and if I went to court arguing that I didn't get instructions, was not told to route it "This way" or "that way" the judge would laugh me out of the court room. Everyone in that court room would agree I was a bad tech, ignorant, shouldn't work on cars,etc.
If i was too incompetent to handle this kind of job it should not have been given to me in the first place.
This comes down to common sense which was clearly not exercised.
This is the same reason we have ASE tests and Lexus tests to weed out the weak ones and keep us sharp.

You're obviously picking apart my posts word for word so let me correct myself by stating I was talking about any aftermarket line - sorry for not being 100% crystal clear. I think that goes without saying that the OEM line would be a totally different story.

Say the tech at this mom and pop shop installed an OEM line - somehow it was not properly secured or installed - it's still that shop/tech's fault. Unless it was clearly a design/part failure.(like you stated) The installer is liable to make sure his/her work is done properly.

Similar situation - tech installed oem line at Mitsubishi dealership and line failed - Likely all damages and line would be replaced under parts warranty/goodwill. Don't tell me the tech at the dealer wouldn't get his ass chewed out or potentially fired - unless it was 100% product/parts failure.

With that being said I've stated my beliefs, facts, and opinions. I have mine, you have yours. Good for you I'm glad. Non of this changes the OPs situation.
You can continue to argue how the tech isn't liable but if you worked in the automotive field I feel you would completely understand.

Best of luck OP.