SBR Turbo Problems/Warranty?

[eclipsegst1990]

Hello fellow DSMers:

It's been a while since I've been on this site. I've been currently upgrading my turbo setup from a 16G to a new SBR-GT12. I'm sure you all familiar with finding the time and the ...FUNDS these days to tackle these projects. Regardless, here is the situation. I've recently purchased the aforementioned turbo from SBR about two months ago and finally I had the turbo installed at my friend's shop. After inspecting the setup, -3 line from the head with restrictor and filter along with the new oil return line, to make sure everything was functioning properly, I proceeded to take the 15 minute drive from the shop to my residence.

While enroute, the turbo boosted well up to the set 15lbs (for now) with no problems. Suddenly, within minutes from my home it felt like I blew off an intake pipe (we all know this feeling). Consequently, I pulled over in a gas station nearby and checked the piping and noticed that everthing was ok. Now my heart began to drop because I wasn't getting much boost after I felt this symptom. I then checked for leaks and didn't find any probems there either. I also remember my EGTs being within the normal range before this incident occurred. You know how paranoid everyone is the first trip out with a new turbo, I was watching my gauges more than the road.

Anyway, with further investigation, I removed the intake pipe to expose the compressor wheel which revealed a "chewed up" compressor wheel indicating that the wheel was scraping the side of the housing (scrape marks on housing). I then checked for shaft play and noticed that the shaft was moving from side to side, but there was no indication of in and out motion. However, the wheel seemed to spin freely as long as it didn't touch the sides of the housing.

I am also getting a lot of the bluish smoke coming from my tail pipe...of course as if it couldn't get any worse. Now let me ask everyone one question. What the HELL is going on? Everthing was installed properly. The only thing I can assume is that the turbo may have recieved too much oil pressure even though the restrictor was in place. I do NOT have my oil pump housing ported, but I was told that this wasn't necessary since the oil was being taken from the head and that there was a inline filter and restrictor. I have no balance shafts and the engine is new and properly seated.

Does anyone have any suggestions as far as Slowboy's warranty, if any? I have already emailed SBR's management, but I haven't recieved a response from them at this time (it's been several days). I'm going to try calling again to see if I can speak to a person and to try to get this problem resolved. I don't have $1200.00 to spend every 15 minutes my new turbo decides to take a dump. I'm not even going to go into the shipping problems I had either. Look, if I was racing and had some miles on the turbo, I could understand the "if you want to play...you have to pay" idea, but this was the drive home and the race track isn't even open yet.

However, any help would be appreciated regarding this matter. Right now I have a knot in my stomach regarding this problem and I'm dreaming of dollar signs and an empty account. I don't want this situaiton to result in my saying farewell to DSMs even though it's been in my blood for the past 8 years and it seems to be a way of life now. Trust me, I have many sob stories. If any more information is needed, let me know.

Thanks for all your support,
eclipsegst1990

 

[92awddsm]

My mistake. Disregard this.

 

[daren_p]

The turbo failed due to installation error and sbr probably will not honor a warranty. The gt12 is a journal bearing turbo and oil feed should only be restricted when feeding from the oil filter housing. When you feed from the head, oil volume and pressure are pretty low to begin with and adding a restrictor will only starve the turbo of oil. Good luck with whatever you do but you might as well plan on either having to replace it or rebuild it out of your own pocket.

Journal bearing on SBR GT series of turbo's? It says on their site they use the GT30 series centersection. I have always heard them being referred to with having a BB center section?

I would check to make sure you were getting flow through the feed & return. Did the shop remember to prime the turbo first before startup? As for the restriction in the oil feed, when I contacted FP they said even when feeding from the head, still use their filter with the inline restriction for the FP30 series.

 

[Steve93Talon]

As for the restriction in the oil feed, when I contacted FP they said even when feeding from the head, still use their filter with the inline restriction for the FP30 series.

Not what it says on their website:

Oil supply off the filter housing - use the .8mm restrictor as supplied.

Oil supply off the cylinder head - drill the restrictor out to .125”

The original poster also said he's using a -3 feed line, which itself acts as a restrictor. Definitely sounds like insufficient oil flow.

 

[daren_p]

Not what it says on their website:

Oil supply off the filter housing - use the .8mm restrictor as supplied.

Oil supply off the cylinder head - drill the restrictor out to .125”

The original poster also said he's using a -3 feed line, which itself acts as a restrictor. Definitely sounds like insufficient oil flow.

What they say on their website & what they actually recommend isn't always the same thing Their new website will have this portion of text updated

 

[2gAWDTalon]

I would agree, feeding off the head gets you low presure already, like about 40psi.

 

[daren_p]

Do these SBR GT series not use the same center section as the FP30 series of turbo's? For these Garrett states 40 or 45 psi max for these, feeding off the head with BS removed will more then likely give you higher pressure then this. Robert at FP told me that they have tested these down to 10 psi under full load without any issues as long as you have proper coolent supply. Their inline filter with the .8mm restrictor is still what they recommend using when feeding of the head, even when BS are still installed.

They did hook up your coolent lines correctly?

Do you happen to know the size of the restriction your running? While the -3AN line will act as a restriction, not sure how much effect this will have when you compare it to the size of the restrictors they usually run, such as the .8mm.

 

[eclipsegst1990]

Hey, thanks for all the responses. I did get a response from SBR, so I'm working things out with them. Ok, I was told to take the oil from the head with the inline filter. SBR also supplied me with a brass fitting that looks like a restrictor with a little filter inside that installs on top of the center section for the oil feed. I'd have to pull the unit to get a better look at it. It's been a while since it's been at the shop. The turbo also came with no coolant hookups, it's just oil cooled. I did call SBR about this since I do have a MITSU and they said it's ok, just remove the coolant lines. The turbo was primed and everything was installed as instructed.

Correction: The oil feed line kit for $100.00 I received from SBR is a -4AN line for the GT series turbos.

"This line is a -4AN line that will deliver more than double the volume of your stock lines and includes all the fittings you need to easily mate it to your DSM!" <SBR>

Also, remember this is a new motor with balance shafts removed with 3000 miles or more of break in time. The oil pump housing has not been ported, I was told this wasn't necessary since I was feeding from the head.

 

[daren_p]

Hey, thanks for all the responses. I did get a response from SBR, so I'm working things out with them. Ok, I was told to take the oil from the head with the inline filter. SBR also supplied me with a brass fitting that looks like a restrictor with a little filter inside that installs on top of the center section for the oil feed. I'd have to pull the unit to get a better look at it. It's been a while since it's been at the shop. The turbo also came with no coolant hookups, it's just oil cooled. I did call SBR about this since I do have a MITSU and they said it's ok, just remove the coolant lines. The turbo was primed and everything was installed as instructed.

Correction: The oil feed line kit for $100.00 I received from SBR is a -4AN line for the GT series turbos.

"This line is a -4AN line that will deliver more than double the volume of your stock lines and includes all the fittings you need to easily mate it to your DSM!" <SBR>

Also, remember this is a new motor with balance shafts removed with 3000 miles or more of break in time. The oil pump housing has not been ported, I was told this wasn't necessary since I was feeding from the head.

Do these turbos infact use the Garrett GT30 ball bearing center section? If they are, which I assumed they were, how do they get away without any coolent lines? These center sections need coolent as the small amount of oil pressure they require isn't enough to keep them cool.

 

[eclipsegst1990]

That's what I thought too which I why I teleponed the company as soon as I received the product prior to installation. They replied that it's ok and the unit is oil cooled.

Hey, but what do I know...

 

[oldman]

1. GT12 is in fact a GT30 CHRA, GT3076 to be exact.

2. Should be fed from the head, not the filter housing unless there is some serious form of restrictors, especially with BS removal without proper porting of the oil pressure relief valve.

3. What killed your turbo is the lack of coolant, there is no such thing as "oil cool" only Garrett BB CHRA, oil is only used for lubrication and cooling is done only through coolant. If SBR told you no coolant lines were needed, hold them responsible. If you got this mis-information from someone else, DO NOT tell SBR you didn't run the coolant lines.

4. If SBR refuses to take care of you, post back and I will give you information on the new Garrett GT CHRA service/replacement program, it will still cost money but only at about half of what a brand new CHRA will cost you.

Good luck.

PS Which shop is this? I'm shock that they didn't know this.

 

[oldman]

The turbo also came with no coolant hookups, it's just oil cooled. I did call SBR about this since I do have a MITSU and they said it's ok, just remove the coolant lines.

I just re-read your post, are you saying the CHRA itself did not have coolant provisions? Post the Garrett label off the CHRA.

 

[eclipsegst1990]

Unless I'm going crazy, no other port exists on this particular turbo other than the oil feed. Everthing else is solid cast aluminum. This is supposedly a hybrid w/ mitsu housing. I'll try to get some pics online once I pull the unit. I telephoned SBR about this before I installed the unit and they replied that there are no coolant lines or ports on this turbo WTF . I really don't think I got the right turbo to begin with and I tried explaining this problem. First of all, the turbo was sent with an internal wastegate and I was supposed to get it setup for an external wastegate, so I knew something was wrong. Its already not what I ordered. I was told to convert the unit myself to an external wastegate. All my advice and recommendations were from SBR reps and I haven't telephoned any other company regarding this problem.

 

[oldman]

1. A GT30 CHRA is not cast aluminum.

2. A GT30 CHRA has coolant lines.

3. You do not have a GT12.

4. I know because I have a GT3076R (GT12) and a GT3082R (GT14/FP3065) sitting right next to me as we speak.

5. How much did you pay for the turbo?

 

[oldman]

I have pulled down the description of GT12 for you.

This GT30 dual ball bearing ballistic turbo is here for your "quick" boosting pleasure. Starting with the 700177-0012 center cartridge ( get it, GT12 ) this turbo is sure to get your adrenaline rushing. We here at SBR try to keep everything simple, the name of every turbo will clue you in to what it really "is". With that being said, lets get on to the good stuff.

The GT 12 turbocharger is rated from garrett as a "500 HP" turbo, but spools extremely fast due to the highly efficient turbine wheel designed by Garrett in racing applications since 2000. All SBR series turbo's are made to mount directly to your existing manifold. This is done by utilizing our cast turbine housing specifically designed for the medium frame GT30 series family of turbochargers.

Compressor wheel facts:
&#8226; 56 "trim" compressor wheel
&#8226; 2.24" inducer
&#8226; 3.00" exducer
&#8226; 55 lb/min compressor wheel


Turbine wheel facts:
&#8226; 2.16" exducer
&#8226; 2.36" major

 

[92awddsm]

The turbo failed due to installation error and sbr probably will not honor a warranty. The gt12 is a journal bearing turbo and oil feed should only be restricted when feeding from the oil filter housing. When you feed from the head, oil volume and pressure are pretty low to begin with and adding a restrictor will only starve the turbo of oil. Good luck with whatever you do but you might as well plan on either having to replace it or rebuild it out of your own pocket.

My bad. I was thinking for some reason that the sbr gt turbos were non-bb. Please disregard my first post.

 

[92awddsm]

I just re-read your post, are you saying the CHRA itself did not have coolant provisions? Post the Garrett label off the CHRA.

I have never seen a bb chra that wasnt water cooled. Im guessing that sbr sent the wrong turbo and it is not a bb chra. It wouldnt surprise me too much because the only time I ordered a turbo from them, it was incorrect also but thats a different story. You can read about it on a different website.

 

[oldman]

I have never seen a bb chra that wasnt water cooled. Im guessing that sbr sent the wrong turbo and it is not a bb chra.

That is what I suspect as well, if a standard thrust bearing was sent instead, then feeding from the head with further restriction would be the cause of failure. The label off the CHRA will verified this.

 

[zross1]

Sorry about your whole situation, that really sucks. You definetly got the wrong turbo if there are no coolant lines. If you did in fact call slowboy regarding the lack of coolant lines and they told you that a gt12 doesn't have them they are responsible for 1) sending you the wrong turbo 2)Gouging you for a journal bearing turbo 3) ruining the turbo telling you not to worry about the water lines.

 

[oldman]

This is not about vendor review, this is about helping eclipsegst1990 figure out exactly what happened to his 12 miles old $1200 turbo, please leave your SBR complaints out of this thread, thank you.

 

[eclipsegst1990]

Here are some pictures after I uninstalled the unit. When I uninstalled the unit and disassembled the 02 housing from the unit, I noticed oil between the gasket and the 02 housing. If you need more pictures, let me know.

 

[oldman]

That is not a SBR GT12 for sure, they shipped you the wrong turbo.

 

[oldman]

This is a picture of the compressor inlet, compressor wheel without the cover, CHRA with coolant provision and Garrett label, turbine outlet, of a GT12.

 

[elfroggo]

There's a turbonetics logo poking out inbetween the housings..

* obvious*

 

[daren_p]

That nice Turbonetics logo cast into the centersection should have been your first clue it wasn't a Garrett/Mitsu Hybrid. That would be their good ol std bearing turbo & feedling from a restricted line off the head is defently the cause of its short life. Defently let us know what happens with this one, I would hope they will fix you up, no charge & do it promply as well. They sent you the wrong turbo, you paid probably about 1/3rd more then that turbo should have cost & when you called about the coolent lines for a GT12 they said their not needed, was it somebodys first day or what

One other thing, I was just curious about the turbine housing. You said you olny ran it for like 15 mins before it blew? I was wondering how it got so rusty, was it already rusted when you received it? If not, I wonder why it rusted so fast, after 6 months use my evoIII didn't have any rust on it and after two years use it still doesn't have as much rust as that turbine housing.