Rod bearing wear

[jen_cairo]

Why is there more wear on the upper rod bearing than the lower rod bearing?

 

[jen_cairo]

Wow that upper bearing has been glazed. Definitely a lack of oil...what were the symptoms for tearing the engine apart? Did you have any catastrophic failure to decide to tear down the engine?

basically if you read the beginning of my post(revised 2g lifters gone bad??) it will tell you everything..but I started to clean the lifters..and found metal shaving dropped the pan found very few amount of metal but none the less metal..So, I took off one rod cap and found this out..Im take off the main's now..will post more pics of that..

Crank could have total run out out of spec have it check by a engine machinist...

I believe I can get an ides by using my micrometer..if its really bad im gonna know right away..

 

[crimsondragon]

Scoring on the upper rod bearing. Slight uneven wear on the lower rod bearing. I say possible engine overloading. Are the rest of the bearings like that?

 

[jen_cairo]

Scoring on the upper rod bearing. Slight uneven wear on the lower rod bearing. I say possible engine overloading. Are the rest of the bearings like that?

Im taking them all off right now. The guy I bought the car from just did the head and put a new turbo on, the old one blew.. and this car has 206k miles on it...do you think it could be because they were never replaced? Or because of the turbo/head going bad..??

 

[JusMX141]

The old turbo blew because it was full of metal from the failing rod bearings. VERY common problem.

How much oil pressure was reading when the engine was running?

 

[MichaelSuch]

206k? I'd say that's normal wear and tear if the bottom end has never been rebuilt.

 

[crimsondragon]

The old turbo blew because it was full of metal from the failing rod bearings. VERY common problem.

How much oil pressure was reading when the engine was running?

What if the old turbo was the original turbo that came with the car from the factory? 206k miles on original Mitsu turbo wouldn't lead me to believe it was failing rod bearings but rather just old age. And how would these metal flakes kill the turbo if they were filtered out?

 

[jen_cairo]

206k? I'd say that's normal wear and tear if the bottom end has never been rebuilt.

Yea I know it has a shit load of mile but it was trasported hear to il about 2 yrs ago from cali. 2 owners..This car was very well taken care of. I took off cylinder 4 and 1 rod cap bearing and there the same.

What if the old turbo was the original turbo that came with the car from the factory? 206k miles on original Mitsu turbo wouldn't lead me to believe it was failing rod bearings but rather just old age. And how would these metal flakes kill the turbo if they were filtered out?

I believe it was the original turbo. I have it still I have pics of it on my other post(revised 2g lifters gone bad) that turbo was done for..

The old turbo blew because it was full of metal from the failing rod bearings. VERY common problem.

How much oil pressure was reading when the engine was running?

I'm not sure what the oil pressure was but I believe when they rebuit the head 6 months ago it was probably around 15 p.s.i.

 

[crimsondragon]

Just checked that thread. Gruesome for the old turbo.

 

[JusMX141]

What if the old turbo was the original turbo that came with the car from the factory? 206k miles on original Mitsu turbo wouldn't lead me to believe it was failing rod bearings but rather just old age. And how would these metal flakes kill the turbo if they were filtered out?

I don't know...you tell me how these rod bearing shavings made it into this customer's turbo, clogging the oil supply hole in the thrust plate and ruining the journal bearings (new bearings are on the right)....bear in mind the oil supply was the filter housing, so this turbo was getting "clean oil":

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Apparently not everything's caught by the filter.


In an ideal environment, a turbo should never fail. The main reasons turbos die are due to lack of oil, OVERoiling (a big one for Garretts), misuse (overboosting, compressor surge, etc), or if they injest something that destroys one of the wheels.

It just seems weird to me that the previous owner changed the head and the turbo and now we're having rod bearing trouble.

Last summer I rebuilt my girlfriend's Sunfire with 149k original miles, and last fall I rebuilt a 4G63 in my buddy's daily driver that had 176k original miles on it- both engine's bearings showed almost no wear at all...nothing like we're seeing in the O.P.'s photos. That is FAR from "normal wear"....what I consider to be "normal" barely wears through the first layer of metal. If you need confirmation on the wear, compare the measurements of these bearings with a new one and see how much material is missing. To me, this engine obviously had some type of oiling issue.

 

[jen_cairo]

True, I looked at the old turbo, I asked him if I can have it to help diagnose the problem, I'm going to replace the lifters rod bearing and main bearings...Im in the process of rebuiding another engine(6-bolt)..I think if I change these things it will last long enough until I get it built. If anyone has and recomendation on what else I can change with that being said so the engine can last a little longer..please let me know..also keep in mind im not going to take the whole engine out because of this.

 

[JusMX141]

As long as the crank isn't scored, you can install new rod / main bearings and the problem would fix itself. Trouble is, how much metal has made it into your new turbo, and how long before this viscious cycle starts all over again?

I would flush as much of the engine as you can while the pan's down in order to remove the majority of the metal flakes that aren't in the pan. I had plenty of bearing failures that filled the cases with metal on the motorcycles I worked on for customers over the years. I normally flushed the engines with Kerosene while the case covers were off in order to remove the shavings.

Once the engine is together, I would change the oil and filter at 50 miles, again at 300 miles, and every 300 miles after until the oil drained clean. When the oil drains clean, it is safe to resume normal oil change intervals.

 

[jen_cairo]

As long as the crank isn't scored, you can install new rod / main bearings and the problem would fix itself. Trouble is, how much metal has made it into your new turbo, and how long before this viscious cycle starts all over again?

I would flush as much of the engine as you can while the pan's down in order to remove the majority of the metal flakes that aren't in the pan. I had plenty of bearing failures that filled the cases with metal on the motorcycles I worked on for customers over the years. I normally flushed the engines with Kerosene while the case covers were off in order to remove the shavings.

Once the engine is together, I would change the oil and filter at 50 miles, again at 300 miles, and every 300 miles after until the oil drained clean. When the oil drains clean, it is safe to resume normal oil change intervals.

I put about 5 courts of just 5w-20 threw the engine cause I had it lying around, would you recommend doing it any particular way and with what product? I have Mobile 1 and a k&n filter that Im gonna put on 300 mile after driving it or so like you say...But I have a can of seafoam I think Im gonna put it in the head..

As long as the crank isn't scored, you can install new rod / main bearings and the problem would fix itself. Trouble is, how much metal has made it into your new turbo, and how long before this viscious cycle starts all over again?

I would flush as much of the engine as you can while the pan's down in order to remove the majority of the metal flakes that aren't in the pan. I had plenty of bearing failures that filled the cases with metal on the motorcycles I worked on for customers over the years. I normally flushed the engines with Kerosene while the case covers were off in order to remove the shavings.

Once the engine is together, I would change the oil and filter at 50 miles, again at 300 miles, and every 300 miles after until the oil drained clean. When the oil drains clean, it is safe to resume normal oil change intervals.

oh and the crank isnt scored at all..

 

[Rob10_99]

Looks normal for something about to have rod knock from normal wear and tear. Wear from the pressure side might be from oil starvation at some point, and that doesnt look glazed, looks like its worn through to me.

 

[JusMX141]

Seafoam added to the oil is a great idea for an engine flush.

Don't wrap up a mint in expensive oil and filters here or you'll be throwing your money down the drain. I'd find the cheapest 10W30 and oil filters I could find until you're done flushing and the oil runs clear, then resume your normal oil and filter brands.

Don't run the engine hard while flushing and breaking in the new rods bearings. Light loads, no lugging, and no boost is recommended.

Looks normal for something about to have rod knock from normal wear and tear. Wear from the pressure side might be from oil starvation at some point, and that doesnt look glazed, looks like its worn through to me.

What I consider to be "normal" is more like:

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Jen's upper rod bearing shows wear over it's entire surface, and has worn completely through the tin and nickel layers and into the copper lining....the final layer before it reaches the base steel.

 

[jen_cairo]

Seafoam added to the oil is a great idea for an engine flush.

Don't wrap up a mint in expensive oil and filters here or you'll be throwing your money down the drain. I'd find the cheapest 10W30 and oil filters I could find until you're done flushing and the oil runs clear, then resume your normal oil and filter brands.

Don't run the engine hard while flushing and breaking in the new rods bearings. Light loads, no lugging, and no boost is recommended.

Yea thats what I meant..my bad..I meant I wasnt gonna run the good oil till Im done running cheap oil in there first..And its gonna be very hard not wanting to romp on it considering this was the first AWD eclipse I drove in my life and I only got to drive it on a flat bed so far..
Im gonna go buy a couple more cans of seafoam and run them threw each oil change as well..

I have another ?, I took a pic of my balance shaft, is it normal to have that blue color or are these signs the bearings are going bad and I should pu an eliminator kit on a.s.a.p??

 

[PIMking]

Yea thats what I meant..my bad..I meant I wasnt gonna run the good oil till Im done running cheap oil in there first..And its gonna be very hard not wanting to romp on it considering this was the first AWD eclipse I drove in my life and I only got to drive it on a flat bed so far..
Im gonna go buy a couple more cans of seafoam and run them threw each oil change as well..

HA Jen! just take your time and you will be happy. Im glad to see a New DSM owner taking their time and doing all the right things instead of beating the crap out of it and wonder why it breaks down all the time.

I would suck seafoam into the engine through a vac source and it would smoke out the area but did a real good job of cleaning out the motor! I havent tried putting it in the oil but I have a new motor in my car.

 

[jen_cairo]

hhmm, Ill try that as well Ill put half in the oil and run half threw the vac line once I get all the bearings in and lifters and measure the clearance..thanks

 

[BkzProblem]

Eliminate your balance shafts while your doing all of the other work... But make sure you ONLY use the mitsu Stubby Shaft.. FFWD has a nice kit and so does AMS....

 

[jen_cairo]

Do you know about how much longer it will take to replace the BS with the eliminator kit from this point on an awd?

 

[JusMX141]

Eliminating the balance shafts is a great suggestions, but removing the front shaft with the engine in the car is an absolute bastard. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

 

[jen_cairo]

Eliminating the balance shafts is a great suggestions, but removing the front shaft with the engine in the car is an absolute bastard. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

Thanks for the advice I might not since Im rebuilding a 6 bolt and what im doing is gonna last along time..Do you think that pic of the balance shaft looks normal?

 

[JusMX141]

Concerning the bluing? It definitely looks like it was hot at one point in time- that may be due to that area of the shaft being hardened for durability where it contacts the bearing. As long as it spins freely, I wouldn't be concerned....if it's trying to bind as you're spinning it, you may have found another clue pointing toward poor oil supply.

Do all of the balance shaft journals appear that way?

 

[jen_cairo]

Concerning the bluing? It definitely looks like it was hot at one point in time- that may be due to that area of the shaft being hardened for durability where it contacts the bearing. As long as it spins freely, I wouldn't be concerned....if it's trying to bind as you're spinning it, you may have found another clue pointing toward poor oil supply.

Do all of the balance shaft journals appear that way?

the BS is in the car still hooked up with the timing belt..I didnt want to remove the belt..

 

[CoachDavis]

Jen I can't believe nobody has suggested a magnetic oil plug!?! I bought my first GSX last year and just got done with the rebuild after the engine failed this past fall. My bearing on piston 1 was completely melted to the rod. The first thing I looked at getting just in case I missed any metal during the rebuild and subsequent flush was a Buddy Club transmission and oil pan magnetic plugs. There are less expensive options out there also.