Replaced Broken MAS Now This?

[habitatguy187]

Here's the background:

I have a 2g mas in a 1g car. Car was running fine, had been with this setup for almost 2 years now, I was driving down the highway and the worm clamp that holds my intake on fell off, ended up dragging my entire intake setup down the highway for about 3/8 mile. Limped it home about 4 miles with no mas.

The mas plug was broken so I bought a new one and soldered it on. Started the car and it wouldn't idle right, found that I had two of my wires wrong so I took them all off again and re-soldered them. Car would then start up and idle like normal, but at the slightest touch of the gas pedal car try to die. Running super rich and building boost if you rev it up in neutral. CEL will come on but only when giving it gas, and the ecu isn't storing a code for whatever it is.

So I figured the mas was bad and bought a known good one, fresh off a buddy's car. Put it on yesterday and still same thing. Woke up early this morning and went through all the wiring again and still same thing. CEL still comes on but won't store a code.


I have correct voltage in the wiring and the ground is also good. I don't know if there's a way to check the other wires on the harness or not.


I'm just wondering if I could've shorted something out when the mas plug broke on the highway?

 

[steve]

I'm just wondering if I could've shorted something out when the mas plug broke on the highway?

Both when it broke and you were dragging it and again when you miswired the connector.

Do you have a datalogger?

 

[habitatguy187]

Do you have a datalogger?

My palm pilot took a dump on me, but I was planning on borrowing my father-in-law's and loading mmcd on it. What're you thinking?

 

[steve]

What're you thinking?

First would be to catch the CEL code when it happens and the second is you need to look at the various MAF related sensors to see what the ECU is seeing.

 

[habitatguy187]

First would be to catch the CEL code when it happens and the second is you need to look at the various MAF related sensors to see what the ECU is seeing.

Will do. I'm planning on going over there today so I should have results sometime this evening. Thanks Steve.

 

[fox4]

I don't understand how having a broken mas plug could make anything short-out? Me and others I know have accidentally started their cars having forgotten to plug the mas back in on multiple occasions and it didn't short anything out.

 

[steve]

There is a big difference between unplugged and broken.

 

[fox4]

There is a big difference between unplugged and broken.

Would you care to explain? I'm not trying to call you out I'd just like to understand. The only way I could see it happening is if the broken wires touched maybe? I don't know .

 

[steve]

The only way I could see it happening is if the broken wires touched maybe?

There you go, that's one possible way.

 

[habitatguy187]

Well my father-in-law's palm isn't going to work with the chords I have for the car, and I don't know anyone around me with a logger, so I guess I'll go ahead and buy a new one off ebay tonight.

Steve I assume you're suggesting I could have fried something like the mpi relay? As far as I know that's the only thing the mas talks to outside of the ecu. Hopefully I didn't mess that up, freshly rebuilt eprom that I just bought a few months ago.

I won't be able to work on the car until morning so I guess I'll check the mpi relay then, if that's the direction you think I should go.

 

[steve]

If the MPI relay was damaged the ECU wouldn't turn on so I'm not expecting it to be bad, more like one of the three inputs from the MAF to the ECU or the sensor ground.

 

[habitatguy187]

If the MPI relay was damaged the ECU wouldn't turn on so I'm not expecting it to be bad, more like one of the three inputs from the MAF to the ECU or the sensor ground.

Man you're awesome!

I think that the ground is good because when I put my voltmeter on the battery and then to the mas ground wire I get close to 12V. And I know the mas is getting power. I guess I'll just wait until I get another palm before I do anything else. When I do find out what the problem is I'll probably have to run a whole new wire right? As you can tell I'm definitely not experienced with electrical but I'm learning.

 

[r18eclipse]

Man you're awesome!

I think that the ground is good because when I put my voltmeter on the battery and then to the mas ground wire I get close to 12V. And I know the mas is getting power. I guess I'll just wait until I get another palm before I do anything else. When I do find out what the problem is I'll probably have to run a whole new wire right? As you can tell I'm definitely not experienced with electrical but I'm learning.

i am really curious to see what your wiring job looks like?

 

[habitatguy187]

i am really curious to see what your wiring job looks like?

I can solder pretty well, it's not very hard to get a good connection if you use the flux cleaning stuff first. (technical name)

 

[steve]

Now I'm interested.

On electrical wiring the only thing you should be using is rosin flux and I'm not aware of any that could be considered flux cleaning. Those all tend to be acid based, good for plumbing and jewelery but not for wiring.

 

[r18eclipse]

i just want to make sure that the sensitive signal wires are not being introduced to your ground... and yes can you please verify the flux you used and how you used it?

R

 

[habitatguy187]

After getting outbid at the last moment on the palm I wanted, I said screw it, and ordered link lite.....finally. It should be here wednesday or thursday then I'll get some real readings from the mas.

As for the type of flux used I honestly must say I don't know, I borrowed a friend's dad's soldering kit and returned it that same day. I'll find out but I have to ask that if I'm getting power to the mas (which I definitely am) then I ASSume that the flux isn't the problem, but I'll find out what kind it is. Also I taped up each connection individually so none of the wires are touching each other.

 

[romeen]

As for the type of flux used I honestly must say I don't know, I borrowed a friend's dad's soldering kit and returned it that same day. I'll find out but I have to ask that if I'm getting power to the mas (which I definitely am) then I ASSume that the flux isn't the problem, but I'll find out what kind it is. Also I taped up each connection individually so none of the wires are touching each other.

Slightly off topic but I've been using Posi-Lock electrical connectors for years now. No crimping or soldering and the connection is completely secure. Saves a lot of time and hassle. They cost more than other types of connectors but well worth it IMO. They're reusable too.

Posi-Lock(R) - The Best Connectors You'll Ever Use!

 

[habitatguy187]

Got link going this evening and it's pulling codes 13, 14, and 21. Air temp, tps, and coolant temp. Whenever I touch the gas both the air temp and coolant temp drop to -74*, and the tps jumps up to 100% with the slightest tap of the pedal. I searched first and in another thread with similar codes Steve put his money on the sensor ground of the ecu I just paid $200 for this thing a couple months ago.

I'm searching now on how to fix it and I'm about to pull the ecu and take close up pics. Any advice guys?

 

[jrohner]

Got link going this evening and it's pulling codes 13, 14, and 21. Air temp, tps, and coolant temp. Whenever I touch the gas both the air temp and coolant temp drop to -74*, and the tps jumps up to 100% with the slightest tap of the pedal. I searched first and in another thread with similar codes Steve put his money on the sensor ground of the ecu I just paid $200 for this thing a couple months ago.

Weird things like this are almost always caused by a ground. You either have a ground issue somewhere else, or the ground crossed with something else where you fixed the wiring (or maybe even the sensor power wire crossed with something).

 

[habitatguy187]

Definitely a blown sensor ground on the ecu.

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And Jrohner I think that it probably happened when I rewired the mas the first time and had two of the wires backwards. I'm not sure if I have the skills to fix this myself. I'm ok at soldering, but all I've ever done before is wires no smaller than 18awg.

 

[1997_GSX]

It isn't to hard to fix a trace. Just scrap the light green off gently with a razor blade on both sides of the break it will be a copper color when you have scraped enough off and get a solid core wire and soldier it on, but don't get it to hot or it will lift the trace.

 

[steve]

Do you have a small soldering iron, some soldering wick, and rosin flux solder?

Just tin the two ends and solder a piece of wire wrap wire (or a single strand from a heaver wire) across the gap.

If you aren't comfortable doing it I charge 15 mins to do it.

 

[habitatguy187]

Soldered it, put it in, working great. Thanks so much guys for all the help.

 

[toofast82]

Good to see you got it sorted out!
Now get some slicks dammit and get back to the track!