Recommended timing and a/f ratio for 30 psi on evo 16g

[92tsifwd]

If you need to know my mods it will be the fasted to check out my mod list. I will be using c16 mix with 91 octane. I was wondering if anybody runs this setup and could give me some pointers for my eprom I have curently a eprom set for 11.5 a/f and timing from 4k-8k has been pulled as much as 7* at 7k
Let me know if this is a decent starting tune or if not.
4k pulled 2*
45k pulled 3*
5k pulled 3*
55k pulled 4*
6k pulled 5*
65k pulled 6*
7k pulled 7*
75k pulled 3*
8k pulled 2*

other eprom features are:
injector comp/ dead time,
no fuel cut, no air flow cap,
5000 simple studer box, rev limit 8k,
Now will I need to raise the airflow per rev value the computer is able to see for 30psi or am I ok?

 

[pneumo]

What are you using to change the eprom with? Are you using TunerPro or a hex editor like Moates Flash-N-Burn?

 

[dsmjay]

i really think thats way to much for that turbo, even on race gas. 30 psi is just turning that turbo into a hairdryer

 

[andymoraitis]

30 psi is nothing more than a spike, but it's still making useable torque. The wheel's too small to sustain that kind of boost and it will eventually drop to around 22-24 psi depending on the setup. Cams and a stroker would make the drop more severe.

For the original poster, it's very obvious that you're pulling tons of timing, but you're not telling us how much you're trying to run. My race chips were set for 105-106 octane and I ran 11.7:1 with 23 degrees of advance. I never saw timing pulled at 24 psi on that setup although I did see 3-5 counts of knock.

More information would be helpful,

Andy

 

[92tsifwd]

I am using moates flash burn cause I did not like tuner pro that much. From My understanding I thought that an evo 3 could hold 28-30 psi unless you had cams. Also the wastegate has a 34mm flapper but has not been ported or smoothed out to help hold more boost. The timing pulled is from stock advance which I think is a bit much for this amount of boost. However I do have 750cc injectors so, I am not sure if that matters sence it is corected in the computer.

 

[pneumo]

OK, I also have Moates Flashnburn. You should know that there aren't any 8k and 7.5k rpm points. I think you mistakenly added 1k to the rpm columns. The timing points you listed are actually from 3k to 7k rpm. Here's what your hi load timing map looks like with the timing you've removed:
3k rpm=12 degrees
3.5k =12
4k = 15
4.5k=14
5k = 14
5.5k=15
6k = 14
6.5k=17
7k = 16
I think you can see it's not a smooth progression. Generally, timing should go up as rpms go up. Here's what I've been using for my Laser with a 16g and 91 octane at 20 psi, from 3k to 7k it goes: 10 11 13 15 17 19 21 21 21. It works very well, you should try it. I think this would be a conservative startimg point since you're using higher octane (can use more timing) tempered with more boost (need to use less timing). I can't say for sure how much more timing you'll be able to use since it depends on the octane level, your setup and other tuning skills, so you'll have to do some runs, log it, see what happened, and make more changes.

In your hex burner you would start at address 7DFF. In hex you would change the numbers to: 14 15 17 19 1B 1D 1F 1F 1F.

When boost falls off at high rpm you should shim the wastegate by putting some washers between it and the compressor housing. You can also go to the local auto parts store and get some long, thin carburetor throttle return springs and use them to help pull the wastegate arm shut.

 

[92tsifwd]

Now, I down loaded the file which already has added aditional timing and fuel maps for 8k which is set for 8k then it should be good right? So I am prety sure I am using up to 8k but I can find out for sure. If so I might need some more numbers from you for it to work properly.

 

[92tsifwd]

Also, I usally mix 1-2 gal of c16 or 119oct with 1/8 tank of 91 pump. I used your settings but, it does look like it only goes to 7k rpms so if my redline is raised do I need to do anything extra for timing and fuel maps or is it fine with the settings it came with? Also the octane map I believe is untouched so, what needs to be done with it? I did the high load fuel map already for 11.5:1 but what about the octane map? If you want to let me see your timing advance conversion that would be alot easier for future referance. If you would like to take a look at the file I could send it to you to check. Thanks

 

[ShapeGSX]

Don't mix race gas with pump gas for use with a 16G at 30psi. You want the race gas to be as pure as possible.

1/8th tank is way too much gas to be mixing with just 1 to 2 gallons of C16.

Drain your tank before you pour in the race gas.

 

[92tsifwd]

Even if you go off the map, its going to use just the last value it can, across. So if 22* was the last timing degree on the load your in, and you go past it, its going to stay 22* till you bring it back into range.

Ok, then the fuel enrichment will also be what was last used before going off the map also then if I go higher than 7k? Also I was told not to go lower than 14 deg advance on high load map if using stock internals because the motor makes more heat with less timing. Is this true?

 

[92tsifwd]

What do you believe is too low?

 

[92tsifwd]

So does this mean no lower than 16* across the entire rpm range or do certin rpms need more timing? Right now I have set the timing to
14* 14* 15* 16* 17* 19* 21* 21* 21* for 3k to 7k. What do you think? Will I have to run lower boost and more timing sence I have stock internals?

 

[pneumo]

Most people only refer to peak timing, which you'll usually see around 6k to 7k. It's OK to go lower at lower rpms. Naturally, you don't want to try using 16 degrees of timing at 3k rpm, that would be very bad.

 

[92tsifwd]

So what do you think the evo 3 turbo will hold for boost with fp2 cams and full b33 or c16? Also what do you think about my timing advance? Now, also should I leave 2k and 25k at stock advance or adjust it down some? Also if using the stock bcs for reasons like a 2 stage boost controle, how would I lower or higher boost using my eprom? Is it possible?

 

[92tsifwd]

on full c16 i would leave it at stock timing and tune for 12.5:1

I want to be able to run 20psi on 91 octane though and 24+ on full 119 octane. So for full 119 oct, your saying run stock advance and 12.5:1 at 24-30 psi? Mabey I can burn another chip for the track on race gas.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Don't mix race gas with pump gas for use with a 16G at 30psi. You want the race gas to be as pure as possible.

1/8th tank is way too much gas to be mixing with just 1 to 2 gallons of C16.

Drain your tank before you pour in the race gas.

An 1/8 of a tank is only 1.5 gallons. I'm not seeing why that's too much. Please explain.

 

[ShapeGSX]

An 1/8 of a tank is only 1.5 gallons. I'm not seeing why that's too much. Please explain.

1/8th of a 16 gallon tank is 2 gallons. However, our gauges are not linear at all. Once you get down to E, you still have about 1.5 gallons in the tank! So figure he was mixing his 1 to 2 gallons of C16 with 3 to 4 gallons of 92 octane.

Plus, as I said, "You want the race gas to be as pure as possible."

1/3 race gas and 2/3 pump gas is not what I would consider "pure."

Ideally, you really want the tank to be bone dry before you dump in the race gas. That would ensure a consistent fuel for the 30psi you are about to shove into the engine. Barring that possibility, instead just make sure you pump out as much of the street fuel as you can.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

I was unaware of when the needle is on E you still have 1.5 gallons. But my tank only holds 12 gallons. Hence the 1.5 gallons at 1/8 tank i stated. So the way i was seeing it was a 50/50 mix. I don't worry about mixing in race gas. I'm a pump gas warrior myself

 

[92tsifwd]

ya, and on my 93 eclipse n/t that I converted over only holds about 12-13 galons also. Just out of curiosity what would my octane be if I had 3 galons of 91 mixed with 1 galon of 119 octane?