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Rear Mount Radiator Relocation

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casuprock

10+ Year Contributor
320
3
Apr 13, 2010
Exeter, New Hampshire
I'm posting this information to start a discussion about rear mount radiator relocation in the DSM. My particular application is a complete rebuild, but the discussion may be applicable to those retaining the stock body.

Pros
Relocation of the front mount radiator to the rear of the vehicle is better for weight distribution in vehicles with significant lightening of the rear. It is also better for air flow in the engine bay. Vehicles with body modifications can employ an under body diffuser to channel air through the radiator. The radiator is thermally more efficient and does not pick up heat from FMIC or oil coolers. The radiator is protected from debris and snow pack.

Cons
It adds more pressure head to the water pump. It adds negligible mass to the vehicle. It increases the polar moment of inertia of the vehicle. Custom fabrication work is required for airflow and the fabricator needs an understanding of aerodynamics and possibly CFD.

I have a car that is undergoing significant lightening, with many structural and non structural components being replaced by composite materials. Here is a photo of the recently finished trunk (spare tire well is cut out and replaced with cf floor). The radiator will go to the rear of the fuel cell and a diffuser is being constructed to draw air from under the vehicle and out the rear.

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To address the cons of a rear-mount radiator, here are calculations that describe both the pressure head on the water pump and added mass from potential rear-mounting of the radiator.

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As can be seen, the coolant hose diameter plays a role, and the diameter can be chosen to balance head loss and added water mass to the vehicle. According to the numbers, it looks like a good idea if it is done correctly. If you've had experience with rear mount radiators, please provide insights or data you may have about performance.
 
Do you plan on replacing some of the cut out floor pan? Also why are you mounting the radiator strait across the floor? It is not going to flow well as the air has to do a 90* in and a 90* out. You need to lower the rear of the radiator and raise the front. Also if you can push it back as far as you can you can utilize the floor pan to help catch air when accompanied by a scoop.
 
Do you plan on replacing some of the cut out floor pan? Also why are you mounting the radiator strait across the floor? It is not going to flow well as the air has to do a 90* in and a 90* out. You need to lower the rear of the radiator and raise the front. Also if you can push it back as far as you can you can utilize the floor pan to help catch air when accompanied by a scoop.

I'm replacing parts of the floor and building a shroud for the radiator using the Aerocore carbon fiber composite my company makes. Underneath the car is an area of low pressure. If the car is moving, air will be drawn through the radiator. The car should be moving... err it will move someday when there isn't 2.5 feet of snow outside. LOL.

The orientation of the radiator shouldn't matter when the system is charged with fluid. Water is incompressible. The system won't ascend the fluid any higher than the stock radiator inlet, and the pick up point isn't any lower. The only added resistance to the pump is the head loss in the hose extension. A slight incline in the radiator will assist in convection of the cooling fluid being assisted by gravity, but the flow rate is primarily dictated by the pump.

An outstanding question is whether or not the head loss in the hose extension will prevent a sufficient flow rate. The answer should be no, but we'll find out what happens. If the pump isn't sufficient, I'll have to replace the stock pump blades with a impeller machined to similar diameter replacing the stock blades.
 
UPDATE!

After a lot of other work on the vehicle, installing a ported head, messing with ECU's, and finishing the new fuel system... It's now time to finish up this radiator project.

I spent some time with the chopped fiberglass and West Systems today in the blistering hot weather (had a cup of mixed epoxy go exothermic and start smoking! ROFL). Contour from the radiator frame to the vehicle's complex curved shape was a challenging fiberglass job but it turned out great!

This is the first application of fiberglass at 4mm thickness. After the second layer I might sand it smooth and vacuum bag a piece of carbon fiber on top to make it look hard core.

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You know they make FG twill weave in black that looks just like CF. If your doing it just for looks this would be a more cost effective way.
Black Fiberglass : Fiberglass : Chopped Strand Mat : Aerospace : E-Glass : Surfacing : Boating : Black : Gun Roving

I already have spools of carbon fiber in different weaves, but I might just paint them to match the interior. There's not much sense in adding a few grams of mass just to have "the look".

Yes I said a few grams, they all add up. :D
 
:thumb:Ok I was just going by what you stated doing it for a "hard core" look. It looks like your making progress anthow and thats what counts.:thumb:

Yeah, I just can't bring myself to use CF for aesthetic purposes. :cry: Everywhere else carbon appears in this car, it's either to save weight or to improve function. I should follow my own rules and keep it that way!
 
Did final fiberglass lay up, sanded, primed, picked fiberglass splinters out of everywhere. God bless the person who invented organic vapor respirators! :D

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I dont really like this just too many things that would drive me nuts. but if i were you i would have used AN fittings and stainless braided lines...

but if i had my choice for making more room in the engine bay i would just do the honda like half rad...
 
i have done this same project on a 240 sx ka24de except i welded up a block off plate for the water pump and removed the belt driven cooling fan.i used a ford style 12v pump http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...140047QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em7QQitemZ380364774555 at which point i weldedbungs intake and exhaust sides of the pump worked great on a low are flow drift car i to used the side window for flow.

Other pump options

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?...ter+pump&_ipg=100&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245.l1514


http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=naca+duct
 
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Good ideas... thank you for the water pump link. I've seen electric water pumps- a couple recently at the DSM shootout. I've considered the electric water pump before and may make the transition eventually.

i have done this same project on a 240 sx ka24de except i welded up a block off plate for the water pump and removed the belt driven cooling fan.i used a ford style 12v pump Ford Electric Water Pump 289 302 351W + Relay Kit | eBay at which point i weldedbungs intake and exhaust sides of the pump worked great on a low are flow drift car i to used the side window for flow.

Other pump options

12 water pump | eBay


naca duct | eBay

Here is an update: I installed two ducts... one on drivers side, one on passenger side. Fiberglass is a wonderful material. :D I'll be using a naca type scoop to direct air into these ducts.
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Next I have to build a manifold inside the car to house the electric fans and connect the ducts. The manifold will take some serious design work to keep it ultra lightweight. Even with a pressure differential of 1 psi under the car (easily possible at track speeds), the manifold will have to withstand hundreds of pounds force without collapsing.
 
Get two small radiators and run them in front of the front tires, just make sure to run a splash guard.. And you'll need cosmetic updates to your bumper..

Most people mount their oil cooler on the drivers side, and I have my transmission cooler in front of the passenger side tire.
 
Interesting project. The aerodynamics work I have seen on race cars focused on removing air as quickly as possible from underneath the car to create downforce via venturis, diffusers, and suction fans.

I understand you will be using a diffuser to accelerates the flow in front of it, which helps generate downforce and will help draw air through the radiator. It would seem that drawing even more hot air under the car through a radiator adds more air pressure to an area where I want low pressure for better downforce. I'm looking forward to seeing what you find out.

Inside a Formula 1 Car -- Aerodynamics - YouTube
 
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