Read me if you're running an inline filter on a journal bearing turbo!

[SuperDave007]

Are you still running the BP 50 trim journal bearing turbo?
Did you do an engine rebuild and if so, how did you protect the turbo?
How many miles has the turbo been running?
Still no shaft play?
Are you feeding from the oil filter housing?
BS removed?
What's your oil pressure like?
Are you running a restrictor on the turbo?

Sorry about all the questions.

Thanks,

Tom

I know this was referred to the other guy but....

When I was breaking in my 2.3L (BS removed), I used a used EvoIII GT (chinabay crap) feed from the head, no in line filter, pretty much did the oil changes as someone mentioned in the above post, (do not use synthetic oil until you fully break in the motor and start doing regular/normal oil changes).

The EvoIII GT barely, and I mean barely had any shaft play (side to side, no up and down) when I put it on, and after using it for 2-3k miles. After the 2-3k miles the "barely" any shaft play was the same. I also boosted and rev the engine as much as I could. After the 2-3k miles I switched to the SCM61, been feeding oil from the head for about 2k miles. Did 3 passes at last years Shootout. I'm now changing and going to the OFH (just because I broke the other feed line). I'm contemplating using a restrictor myself. We'll see if I start blowing smoke.

I don't know what my oil pressure is, by Shootout though I should have a oil pressure gauge in there.

I've developed shaft play on two different turbos (V-Trim and 57 Trim both BP) withing 2500 miles total. 2500 miles and two turbo's and a motor were shot shot. The V-Trim was worse but it ran for more miles. The car was smoking but I don't know if it was the turbo. The whole motor fell apart, and had to be rebuild. The main and thrust bearing got chewed apart and the turbo bearings were chewed up too (speaking of the V-Trim). I haven't checked the 57 trim yet as I just discovered the shaft play.

Tom

Hey Tom,

Can you re word this, I'm confused as to what you are telling us.

What caused this?

Where you running an in line filter, what kind/type/macrons if you did use one?

How the hell did the whole motor fall apart, ? Not a good build or...?

Are you saying the turbo cause all this?

Sorry for the questions, just a little confused.

I asked SBR when I bought my turbo if I should run a filter. They recommended not to as well.

Did they happen to say why, or was it just because of the fact it was a JB turbo?

Just curious, that's all. If you don't know, no biggie.

And do you know what filter they were speaking of?

 

[Artago]

Hey Tom,

Can you re word this, I'm confused as to what you are telling us.

What caused this?

Where you running an in line filter, what kind/type/macrons if you did use one?

How the hell did the whole motor fall apart? Not a good build or...?

Are you saying the turbo cause all this?

Sorry for the questions, just a little confused.

What caused this. I wish I knew. I'm trying to figure that out myself, hence all the questions.

How the hell did the motor fall apart? Again, I wish I knew. The motor builder said it was debris from the turbo bearings falling apart and the turbo builder said it was debris from the motor bearings falling apart. The old chicken and egg explanation.

I don't know if the turbo caused this or the motor or high oil pressure or something else. I'm just trying to cover ALL the bases so it doesn't happen again.

Oh and believe me, no one is more confused than I.

Tom

 

[SuperDave007]

Oh ok I got ya now, .

Sorry to hear that bro.

 

[95burgundyesi]

I had my holset on for one day with b/s removed and a earls filter on the head feed, just went outside and took it off. Whew problem avoided

 

[Supa Dexta]

I have a forward facing housing as well so this has me concerned. Where did you connect it the first time and where did you connect it the second time? Basically I want to know where the wrong place is and where the right place is? Could you post pics?
Tom

Not a forward facing, I have a 90 style.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The port I used was originally for the sensor you see on the front, that is for the light in the dash.. I only used it because I had the proper fittings for it at the time... It should however be connected the the port that points towards the floor at a 45 degree angle (towards the front of the car) So I've read anyways..

 

[Burnett03]

I've smoked my fair share of PTE journal bearing turbos.. I only run journal turbos now as followed and have never killed another turbo, PTE, or real garrett: -3an from the oil filter housing with a .065 restrictor.

 

[MidShipCivic]

Ball bearing turbos do not require as much flow and pressure as journal bearing.

Either, do not use the filter, or run a less restrictive part. Ever view a journal bearing? It needs a consistent down flow, not a pressurized laser beam. The bearing is perforated so it requires an adequate down flow of oil in the CHRA.

 

[JusMX141]

Rule of thumb, BB at the head, JB at the OFH, maybe needing a restrictor.

This isn't a discussion of oil supply sources- I have a completely different thread on that topic:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...l-feed-supply-locations-all-turbo-brands.html


What I want to know is who is running an Earl's filter in their supply line (whether it be from the head or the filter housing) and if they're having reliability issues that could be a result of the filter not flowing enough oil.

I would've assumed that having clean, filtered oil going to the turbo would be a good thing no matter where your oil line is sourced, but my recent findings of two turbos by two different manufacturers has led me to believe the filter is too restrictive. It's just strange that a G60 (using a Garrett CHRA) fed from the head without the Earl's filter worked just fine- as soon as you put the Earl's filter on it's like Kryptonite to Superman.

 

[Artago]

This isn't a discussion of oil supply sources- I have a completely different thread on that topic:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...l-feed-supply-locations-all-turbo-brands.html


What I want to know is who is running an Earl's filter in their supply line (whether it be from the head or the filter housing) and if they're having reliability issues that could be a result of the filter not flowing enough oil.

I would've assumed that having clean, filtered oil going to the turbo would be a good thing no matter where your oil line is sourced, but my recent findings of two turbos by two different manufacturers has led me to believe the filter is too restrictive. It's just strange that a G60 (using a Garrett CHRA) fed from the head without the Earl's filter worked just fine- as soon as you put the Earl's filter on it's like Kryptonite to Superman.

Subscribed to your other thread, and sorry about getting off topic here. I was thinking of running the Earl for the idle break in and then removing it. I want to protect my turbo while the rebuilt motor flushes all the crap out of it.

I was going to run it permanently, but after reading this I don't want to risk it.

Tomas

 

[JusMX141]

I was thinking of running the Earl for the idle break in and then removing it. I want to protect my turbo while the rebuilt motor flushes all the crap out of it.

The weird thing is, the pattern I'm noticing is that these turbos supplied with the Earl's filter are dying after prolonged periods of off-boost driving, when the load on the turbo is light and the engine isn't really revved and creating a ton of oil pressure.

I'd be most concerned about using the Earl's filter at idle, when it may be obstructing what little oil flow the turbo is seeing.

 

[SuperDave007]

This isn't a discussion of oil supply sources- I have a completely different thread on that topic

You got to be kidding me. You picked through all that just to come up with this. WTF is with you, I'm trying to help you.

Ball bearing turbos do not require as much flow and pressure as journal bearing.

Either, do not use the filter, or run a less restrictive part. Ever view a journal bearing? It needs a consistent down flow, not a pressurized laser beam. The bearing is perforated so it requires an adequate down flow of oil in the CHRA.

I'm sorry MidShipCivic this ins't a thread about what turbo requires what flow or pressure. I'm sure he's got a thread on that one.

I've smoked my fair share of PTE journal bearing turbos.. I only run journal turbos now as followed and have never killed another turbo, PTE, or real garrett: -3an from the oil filter housing with a .065 restrictor.

Sorry Ryan, this isn't a thread about smoking turbos, or using retrictors.

What about those of us without balance shafts? Shouldn't we be using a filter at all times with a jb turbo fed from the filter housing?

Cannot talk about that, this is a thread about Earl's in line filter that was mentioned more than once, by more than one person, to not use it on his JB turbo.

And what about all that other crap people were talking about???????? It has nothing to do with this thread.

Is was just a statement for people to understand.

WTF??

Unbelievable I'm trying to help you. And...... urg ...Keep blowing your turbos then.

Ok people lets get back on topic.

 

[JusMX141]

You got to be kidding me. You picked through all that just to come up with this. WTF is with you, I'm trying to help you.

I quoted your post because all of your posts up until that point (with the exception of #2) were indeed helpful contributions to the thread topic. I didn't feel like multi-quoting (16) random posts by other members to get my point across....yours was the most direct, so it was quoted.

If you feel like I singled you out, I apologize as that was not my intention....please feel free to respond with any additional information regarding use of an Earl's inline filter leading to destruction of a journal bearing turbo.

 

[SuperDave007]

You totally threw me off with that quote... thingy/statement.

I apologize for going off topic and being somewhat rude in that last post.

I'll try to see if I can find any info on the Link forums.

Post back soon.

 

[MidShipCivic]

I'm sorry MidShipCivic this ins't a thread about what turbo requires what flow or pressure. I'm sure he's got a thread on that one.

You're misunderstanding pressure and flow are directly related.

 

[crimsondragon]

Did they happen to say why, or was it just because of the fact it was a JB turbo?

Just curious, that's all. If you don't know, no biggie.

And do you know what filter they were speaking of?

Here's the responses I got from them.

Correct - Does not need an oil restrictor because it is only an oil cooled turbo. Youdo the water line block off just like you would one of our G50 turbos - youbasically just run a loop from one line to the other and totally bypass theturbo. The good thing about this turbo is that even though it is not ball bearing,the center sections that BEP uses in their turbos are built so strong, theycan handle a ton of boost and they spool up as if they were ball bearing Let me know what you think!

No problem Tim! We can get you an inline oil filter, but honestly it is not necessary. Theyare around 45 bucks so you could save some money in that department.

Also I think SBR only sells Earl's filters.

Are you still running the BP 50 trim journal bearing turbo? Yes
Did you do an engine rebuild and if so, how did you protect the turbo? No rebuild.
How many miles has the turbo been running? A little over 4k miles now. Been running it since October?
Still no shaft play? Regular tiny side to side, no in and out last time I checked which was about 1 month ago.
Are you feeding from the oil filter housing? Yep
BS removed? Nope.
What's your oil pressure like? I'll let you know as soon as my oil presure gauge is up and running
Are you running a restrictor on the turbo? Nope. SBR recommended not to.

Sorry about all the questions.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[talondave]

Im going to do a video on oil pressure before the turbo with and without the earls inline filter.

 

[keltalon]

Im going to do a video on oil pressure before the turbo with and without the earls inline filter.

This will definitely give us the real answer! I have subscribed

 

[talondave]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6vNXG88E6fQ&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6vNXG88E6fQ&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>




Oil pressure looks the same either way! So i don't know!!!

 

[Artago]

I think it's simply a clogging issue. The filter get's clogged and no more oil. Here's what BP had to say on the subject of inline oil filters.

The only filter we have ever used with any success is the 8 micron inline from CM Filter, Home Page

Tom

 

[turboglenn]

ONe of my closest friends smoked his PTE60xx turbo on the dyno, it was being fed from the OFH and had an earls filter on it as well at the time. He's stilll running that filter but hasn't put to many miles on the car. I should definitely warn him of this just as a precaution.

Personally i feed about every turbo from the head (with the exception of maybe 3 DSM's i've fed from the OFH's just because they were 2g cars and had the line there ready to splice into, and i just used a compression fitting to adapt to -3 AN. I hardley ever run the alrger -4 feeds, but i've never had an issue with the 3's so that's what i've stuck with.

My journal bearing garrett is fed from the head with no restrictor or filter and it has roughly 95K miles on it. It has been through a blown motor in 2003, and then a hydrolocking of my last motor November of 2008, and to this day is still in perfect condition as far as the bearings are concerned, the blades are beat up, but after 95K miles, being on it's 3rd motor and drinking 3 gallons of water at once with the last motor some blade wear is expected to say the least

i think people get a litle too carried away with some things some times and i believe the whole mystique behind oil sources for turbos on a DSM is one of those subjects. Darren at FFWD says he doesn't even look at what the pressure is or care about where it's fed from unless it's a ball bearing turbo then i forget if he said he used a regulator or a restricitor. A filter's performace can changevery rapidly so i can see this being the cause, but what exactly its' doing is what's go me curious... do they look like they got really dry and turn color on the bearing when they go out or do they just kinda explode? The one my friend had go out went all at once, I mean BAD it went from almost new to having 1/2 inch of side to side movement and shaving the fins off the compressor wheel as it ate up the housing

 

[talondave]

I just wiped out a new 60-1 turbo while useing the inline filter. I put less that 200 miles on it. I never boosted it over 10lbs because i installed a rebuilt shep trans at the same time.
I reinstalled my sbr g60 without the filter, 259 miles later still no problem, so some thing is weird about the inline oil filter.


I just want to find out what is causing this!

 

[Supa Dexta]

I took my earls apart the other day, and theres no filter inside of it at all really. Its just a metal mesh screen, like you'd see in an old screen door.. I'll post a pic later, but it definitely wasn't limiting the oil supply. So I don't know if mine is missing something, but I'll have to attribute mine to unfiltered oil from the OFH, and not a clogged earls.

 

[JusMX141]

A filter's performace can changevery rapidly so i can see this being the cause, but what exactly its' doing is what's go me curious... do they look like they got really dry and turn color on the bearing when they go out or do they just kinda explode? The one my friend had go out went all at once, I mean BAD it went from almost new to having 1/2 inch of side to side movement and shaving the fins off the compressor wheel as it ate up the housing

The journal bearings look "smoked" on every turbo I've ever disassembled that blew while the Earl's filter was in place- the one on the turbine side is literally black, the compressor bearing is discolored slightly (not as much as the turbine bearing), and the shaft is always scored with bronze from the bearings.

Here are the internals from Dave's 60-1....do they appear oil-deprived being from a new turbo that was installed for just a couple hundred miles of barely-boosted use? It sure appears that way with the scored turbine shaft and discolored bearings:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Here is the only screen I found in my earls.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

WTF

 

[JusMX141]

Interesting.

If that's the screen in the Earl's filter, I don't know why anyone would use one to begin with. That thing's big enough to let small children pass through it, let alone tiny metal particles that would potentially damage your turbocharger.