Re-Dyno'd the eclipse! 740AWHP/696Tq!

[Highbooost]

Perhaps 30% of a stock car's output, so why would having a more powerful engine increase the power required to turn the wheels?

The wheels require no more energy than they did before, yet we are assigning hundreds of horsepower more to them for them to simply operate.
Using fake, yet reasonable, numbers we can understand that 30% of 210HP is 63HP. It takes 63 horses from our cars to simply get it moving (friction, weight, xfer cases etc etc), the rest is free power, we use the other ~150HP to haul us around town or fly down the track.

Why does the power requirement of the drivetrain increase?

I'm sure there is some logical explanation,

I am in total agreement with your statement. I have always said that, I am glad to see others are THINKING and not just ACCEPTING. If that were true then think of some absurd numbers like top fuel cars that make 3000hp, so it take 500hp just to run the car, I dont' think so. I am with you that it takes a flat rate of power to move something, once that has been reached the vehicle can then begin to move at a faster pace/acceraltion.

I think that for factory HP numbers that there is a general rule of thumb of those % since most factory cars are around the same 200-300hp levels. However when you get into aftermarket and super high hp numbers that percentage is not the same. I mean a Zo6 is rated at 505 and dynos around 470, that is a pretty small %.

 

[diambo4life]

You make a good point but you also have to realize that GM almost always under-rates HP on their cars. The 4th gen f-bodies (LS1's) were rated at 300HP at the crank but many of those dyno'd 300-320RWHP. Has anyone actually dyno'd a bone stock LS7 engine on an engine dyno to determine what it actually makes and configure a drivetrain loss? I don't really know. All in all, chassis dyno numbers aren't as relevant as those produced at the wheels or hubs. Better yet....track numbers! Can't argue with those.

 

[ortorc]

Tim,
what's the car's wieght? if it's in the 2200-2300 lbs range i'm thinking if you could hook you may be looking in the 8's? sounds right for the power

 

[marcmsj]

Very nice numbers? Eagle rods? someone has balls

 

[DSMcamaro]

I will be re-dyno'ing the car on a 4WD Dynojet on April 6th (sunday afternoon) at Beyond Redline for their Dyno-Day, and will do a baseline pull to see what the actual HP difference is from the DynoCom to the Dynojet before retuning and upgrading the intake manifold, throttle body, and fuel system.

I'm schedule a little over an hour before you. I hope to stick around and watch your beast on the Dyno. I'll bring my camcorder

 

[twicks69]

Tim,
what's the car's wieght? if it's in the 2200-2300 lbs range i'm thinking if you could hook you may be looking in the 8's? sounds right for the power

Heh, the car is more like 3200# with me in it. It already runs 9's, and I now have much more HP than my 9-second passes from before. I just re-dyno'd the car this weekend, and upgraded the intake manifold. From the dyno-time, we popped the head gasket, and experienced valve float above 6700rpms on 50psi of boost. The #1 and #4 exhaust valves actually tapped the piston valve reliefs!

So, out with the 272/272 cams, check the valves, pull the Crower single springs and titanium retainers, replace the H.G., and maybe install BLE solid lifters. In with the 288 cams, and custom dual valve springs with some extremely high (for imports) spring pressures.

The car went on the dyno (new DynoJet Dyno -- SAE numbers) and base-lined 710HP or so at 49psi (breaking up bad--we had major detonation issues using 4th gear pulls with the early ramping boost using retarded initial timing), so we only went to like 6000rpms. We put the car down to wastegate only (29.3 psi or so) and put down 518AWHP/425TQ very easily on a good tune with 11.7-11.9 AFR's and full boost at 4200rpms using the retarded initial ramp-up ignition timing.

We then installed the new custom intake manifold and re-tuned with an even safer fuel/timing map, and picked up a huge amount of new-found efficiency! The early ramp-up ignition timing was advanced back to normal resulting in full spoolup at 5000rpms, and the AFR's were a little richer around mid-11's, but we were able to dial back the fuel map from 177 (before) to 161 (after) at peak on my fuel curve. All of this was still done on the 1000cc injectors, as the manifold swap increased my fuel efficiency, and VP Q16 race fuel was used through all the dyno pulls that day. The car ended up making around 611AWHP/499TQ on wastegate only (~30psi). It picked up around 95HP and 75 torque with no sacrificed power over the Magnus, along with smoother boost response and increased power dramatically from 4700rpms through 8200rpms (80-100HP+ throughout the 4700-8200rpm area).

On high boost, the car picked up around 35-40 HP at 5000rpms, and we are now seeing around 750AWHP; and then valve floated causing the numbers to drop from 7000rpms on. The single crower springs just could not hold up anymore, so they are gone. Also, the entire day of dynotuning using the new intake manifold was done on a blown head gasket. The next tests we do will be using the 288 cams and custom springs, a new head gasket, and maybe solid lifters.



I am expecting the car to be back together this next weekend with an upgrade of camshafts, and valve springs for sure. I might do the solid lifters also if we have time to install them and spec them. Either way, the head is already off, and the gasket is ready to go on. It will easily be running once I get valve springs ordered up. 800AWHP shouldn't be a problem next Sunday for the dyno event at Luke's shop (Beyond Redline Performance)

The new throttle body was fit-tested, but never used (still a plastic mold), so we used my 1G throttle body, and the cylinder head is a 1G un-ported head using stock size valves.

Gotta love 7-bolts! Party on!

 

[twicks69]

Very nice numbers? Eagle rods? someone has balls

Yeah, I have had no issues YET with the Eagle rods. The car is making pretty close to 1000HP at the crank as it stands.

If you are going to make big numbers, you have to expect something to fail sooner or later == thankfully it hasn't been my Ross pistons or Eagle rods!

 

[twicks69]

I'm schedule a little over an hour before you. I hope to stick around and watch your beast on the Dyno. I'll bring my camcorder

Excellent! I will be ready!

Look forward to seeing you this upcoming weekend for the Beyond Redline Performance Dyno Day in Green Bay, WI. Personally, I cannot wait to see what the new Evo X does on the dyno!

 

[20psimitsu]

What kind of manifold did you do? I running the polk performance manifold with long runners.

 

[Street Surgeon]

Great numbers, and I like the fact you're makin' that power on the eagles Eagle themselves have sent me this in an email:

Cory,
Our "official" rating for our rods for the 4G63 is 900 hp. Now, there are several things you need to keep in mind: this is just a general guidline for what type of application they can be used in. Tuning, engine geometry, weight of components, how the engine is built, what kind of fuel the engine is running on, and even driving style has a tremendous influence on the life of any component (not just rods). This does not mean if you make 901 hp, your engine will blow up. Unfortunately, there is no absolute number I can give you that will be an exact "breaking point" so to speak. This seems to be what everyone would like to hear, but it is impossible to predict. We have seen our rods used in race-application Mitsubishis over 1100 hp.

So you've got a lil' room to go

 

[twicks69]

What kind of manifold did you do? I running the polk performance manifold with long runners.

It is a custom pre-production intake manifold. I will post up all the information, once there is more testing done. They WILL be publicly produced in the near future!

 

[twicks69]

Great numbers, and I like the fact you're makin' that power on the eagles Eagle themselves have sent me this in an email:



So you've got a lil' room to go

Heh , I calculated around 1015HP currently....

I guess if I exceed 815 AWHP, I will be at or just over 1100HP at the crank. It is definitely possible with the changes that are going to happen. All on a GT4088R.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Looking forward to seeing your car on the dyno Sunday. I'll be there at 11:30 for my dyno session.

 

[turbodsmawd420]

Man those are some insane numbers! Thanks for bringing hope to all us 7 bolt owners here on the tuners haha. Congrats

 

[HIGHWAY]

wow thats badass and all from a car that lookd like an daily drive. Very nice bro

 

[twicks69]

Well, I ordered up some SuperTech dual valve springs (high spring rate version), and will try those first. If it is too much, I will pick up a set of Kevin's Beehive valve springs (Kiggly Racing) and try them. Both sets are very reasonably priced race springs made for high rpm/high boost setups.

I also have ARP L19 head studs on the way, and the head is already torn apart to inspect it. We are going to spring test the old Crower single springs to see what their spring rates are like after 5 years of usage. They were originally rated for 88lb/in^2; so it will be interesting to see what they are now.

I am really interested in seeing what this setup does with the unported 1G head and 1G throttle body -- I am hoping for more than 800-815AWHP (SAE uncorrected numbers) when everything is working properly.

Also, with the intake manifold, Beyond Redline is going to try it out on a few more applications before making the production piece, but so far, it has been tested on my car and a near stock 1G (stock cams, stock ecu with a s-afc2, exhaust, turbo upgrade @ 20psi, pump gas, 1G TB, FMIC, etc.) -- both showed very evident gains over the competitor's manifold (Magnus).

We are going to dyno it next on a 1990 FWD (Harvey Ebben) next. Harvey is running a stock rod/ross piston block 2.0L 4G63, FP2 cams, 650cc injectors with an Evo3 16G currently pushing 420WHP/376TQ using AEM EMS at 22psi on pump gas with Methanol injection. It will be interesting to see what power gains/losses we see on his car. Check out his car's info at: Beyond Redline - Performance Center

 

[OneLove]

Wow twicks, just wow

 

[DSMTalonTsiAwd]

Thats Sick. Cant wait to see the Video

 

[speedman88]

your car is bad dude do u wanna sell it.

 

[ortorc]

Damn,
if you push 800 that'll be sick.
is there any chance of doing some lightening? 3200 sounds heavy you still running a full interior? definately sounds like your car needs a diet. I wish I had your car...Mad props man!

 

[twicks69]

Damn,
if you push 800 that'll be sick.
is there any chance of doing some lightening? 3200 sounds heavy you still running a full interior? definately sounds like your car needs a diet. I wish I had your car...Mad props man!

Take a look at my user photo gallery: DSMtuners - - twicks69's Images

There are some weight reductions done, but not too much!

I don't want a diet, I am already 150#!

I think I will do weight reduction when I reach 9.001 in the 1/4mile -- then I will go on a diet, along with pull the dash and stereo, etc, but until then, the interior is staying as it is.

I am also running alot of stock heavy stuff (driveshaft, cross members, all panels, all glass, power windows, crash beams, leather interior, airbags, etc.

 

[twicks69]

your car is bad dude do u wanna sell it.

I think I am going to keep it, but the price would have to be definitely right if I was going to consider letting it go. I have well over $100K invested in the car in the last 6 years of modifying.

Thanks for your interest!

 

[twicks69]

wow thats badass and all from a car that lookd like an daily drive. Very nice bro

It also gets 35mpg on the highway!...and around 2 gallons per 1/4 mile at the track!!

 

[absolute_DSM]

It also gets 35mpg on the highway!...and around 2 gallons per 1/4 mile at the track!!

And thats where it counts. Dont tell the V8 guys that!

 

[Black_Bullet]

Take a look at my user photo gallery: DSMtuners - - twicks69's Images

There are some weight reductions done, but not too much!

I don't want a diet, I am already 150#!

I think I will do weight reduction when I reach 9.001 in the 1/4mile -- then I will go on a diet, along with pull the dash and stereo, etc, but until then, the interior is staying as it is.

I am also running alot of stock heavy stuff (driveshaft, cross members, all panels, all glass, power windows, crash beams, leather interior, airbags, etc.

I agree... Your car needs weight reduction. Not only to make it faster, but your drive train parts are already going thru a lot... Ease some of that weight up off of them

But nah either way your car is sick.
And thanks for helping me with my clutch dicision.
I had no problem taking your advice, given your experiences with these cars.

I think I am going to keep it, but the price would have to be definitely right if I was going to consider letting it go. I have well over $100K invested in the car in the last 6 years of modifying.

Thanks for your interest!

Wow, and were have you been working?
( You dont have to answer that.)