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1G Quick question about spotty clutch disengagement

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Yes, I bought that arm, only to find that it was the shaft end that actually had the wear. It wasn’t “worn out” by any means, just that the corners of the flats were a but shiny. When I had it all temoved from the car and inspected, it all looked great, and had just this little bit of clearance; but that was enough I guess, because I could move the pedal about an inch with that play in there. My clutch is OEM ( I mean assuming, depends on what p/o might have done, but it may be original?). It doesn’t take a lot of foot force to push, at least. I looked into getting a new pedal assembly, but NLA. That’s when I decided to swap in the 2g MC bolt, and simply gain enough adjustment thread to get it all working. It definitely shifted way better, ( plus I dithed some pos short shifter for a stock one), but synchro damage is still needing fixed.
 
Thanks, I came upon that thread the other day. After getting semi-gently reprimanded by Twick (sp?) a few weeks back for posting questions that have been asked and answered a billion times, I figured I might want to focus on that instead of using up whatever newbie tolerance I might still have here, which I sensed what nearing its end.

Anyway, I have to remove at least the lever arm if not the whole assembly to see what's going on. Also the MC to see if it can be rebuilt or needs to be replaced. But I think it's still available, at least it's listed as such on a number of sites, both Mitsubishi dealers and vendors. One dealer I had a good experience ordering from recently has it in stock for around $32.

I guess I should order one ASAP in case they really do run out. Although the old one can be welded if there's no better option left. Even that notched clevis hole can be fixed by welding on new metal and filing it round again, or installing some sort of split sleeve.

I'm realizing why 1G DSMs were so cheap even for back then, considering what they put out (mine cost just north of $20k in mid-92). They cut corners in secondary places like this, the front end suspension, front brakes, etc. No wonder DSMs are modding favorites. You kind of have to to get them to do what they're capable of.
 
Yes, I bought that arm, only to find that it was the shaft end that actually had the wear. It wasn’t “worn out” by any means, just that the corners of the flats were a but shiny. When I had it all temoved from the car and inspected, it all looked great, and had just this little bit of clearance; but that was enough I guess, because I could move the pedal about an inch with that play in there. My clutch is OEM ( I mean assuming, depends on what p/o might have done, but it may be original?). It doesn’t take a lot of foot force to push, at least. I looked into getting a new pedal assembly, but NLA. That’s when I decided to swap in the 2g MC bolt, and simply gain enough adjustment thread to get it all working. It definitely shifted way better, ( plus I dithed some pos short shifter for a stock one), but synchro damage is still needing fixed.

Then we're in the same boat, clutch pedal issues, trans issues. I forgot, are you going to try to rebuild it yourself, or send it out? As you know I intend to try to rebuild mine. Looking forward to it in fact. I just hope it isn't too bad and I won't need to spend a ton to restore it.
 
That’s when I decided to swap in the 2g MC bolt, and simply gain enough adjustment thread to get it all working. It definitely shifted way better, ( plus I dithed some pos short shifter for a stock one), but synchro damage is still needing fixed.

I think the 2g MC rod, being longer, is a good idea, because it should be a lot easier than welding a nut onto the clevis like I had done on mine. I think I remember a thread about the 2g rod someplace where the person said the threads didn't go quite far enough down the length of the rod, so they made a few more threads with a threading die. Was that yours?
 
Yes, I did run a die down to cut more threads. That’s when I found a small issue with the particular rand of 2g MC that I purchased. It was from “Perfection”. Rand, and I assume was completely seviceabe for it’s intended use, but the threads were rolled, so when I cut new ones they were missing a bit of the peaks. The bolt also had a little flat area “below” the factory threads, presumably for better grip when adjusting. But in my custom use, it meant more missing material for new threads. In the end, with the “D” hole play and possibly still a little air in the line, my adjustment had the factory threads just into the clevis coupler. I used three jam nuts on the MC side just for good measure. Swapping the 2g bolt for the factory 1g Was easy (I used an OEM Mitsubishi brand MC).
As I recommend, it appears from photos on parts websites that a Beck/Arnley 2g MC would be a better doner, or probably a used OEM unit, but I can’t swear to it because I haven’t tried them.
 
Then we're in the same boat, clutch pedal issues, trans issues. I forgot, are you going to try to rebuild it yourself, or send it out? As you know I intend to try to rebuild mine. Looking forward to it in fact. I just hope it isn't too bad and I won't need to spend a ton to restore it.
I read through the very thorough, well written factory manual on the rebuild, and also considered that DSM trans are a bit notoriously fickle, and decided I would be getting into quicksand if I attempt it. Most concerning is if I do all that work, get it done and back in the car, and it has issues. Wereas, even removing it and reinstalling it is a fairly big undertaking, and they are reasonably shippable to one of the dsm specialists. The price isn’t cheap, but having an expert put eyes on every part, and being able to spot any other uncommon issues gives me a lot of comfort.
 
Your approach is almost certainly the wiser one, of course. It's just that I can't afford to blow $2k on a rebuild right now, but can afford not being able to use the car for as long as it takes to get it fixed. I've already removed and reinstalled the trans once, and while not the easiest or most pleasant task, is still quite doable. Like you I'm obviously going to have to do it at least once more, either way, but if a third and fourth time is called for, I'll manage. Plus I just like doing things myself, and am fairly confident in my abilities. (Famous last words?)
 
Yes, I did run a die down to cut more threads. That’s when I found a small issue with the particular rand of 2g MC that I purchased. It was from “Perfection”. Rand, and I assume was completely seviceabe for it’s intended use, but the threads were rolled, so when I cut new ones they were missing a bit of the peaks. The bolt also had a little flat area “below” the factory threads, presumably for better grip when adjusting. But in my custom use, it meant more missing material for new threads. In the end, with the “D” hole play and possibly still a little air in the line, my adjustment had the factory threads just into the clevis coupler. I used three jam nuts on the MC side just for good measure. Swapping the 2g bolt for the factory 1g Was easy (I used an OEM Mitsubishi brand MC).
As I recommend, it appears from photos on parts websites that a Beck/Arnley 2g MC would be a better doner, or probably a used OEM unit, but I can’t swear to it because I haven’t tried them.

Ok thanks for the info. That's the kind of info that is really helpful.
When you say "the threads were rolled, so when I cut new ones they were missing a bit of the peaks" -
I think this means the shaft to begin with is a little undersized on the diameter, by design, so that the thread peaks go to about the right OD when they are rolled. But that shaft diameter is a little undersized for thread cutting.
Is that what was going on with that?
 
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Yes, exactly. There is some debate on the pros and cons of rolled threads versus cut threads on bolts and such. Most ARP fasteners are rolled, for example. One of the cons is that you can’t properly cut more threads on a rolled thread bolt. I hadn’t factored on that when I bought my sacraficial 2g MC.but it wasn’t too bad. And as I indicated, I used extra lock nuts to make up for the lost “bite”. It’s not highly stressed, either.
 
Kind of a story. Sorry if it's long but hopefully it helps somebody. I fought clutch issues all year and finally figured it out. I had almost the same issue where I would roll to a stop shortly after bleeding the slave and wouldn't be able to shift into any gear. Sometimes it happened within 5 minutes to 30 minutes of driving. I would have to jump out and bleed the slave cylinder every time.
I eventually decided to buy a new slave, master, and braided line.
I struggled to adjust the master because engagement and disengagment just seemed really low. I seemed to have the same issues still with losing the clutch. So I pulled the trans and measured my step height on the flywheel and decided to have it resurfaced. Replaced pivot ball, fork, and TOB while I was down there.
Still had the same clutch issues.
I eventually came across a thread saying you should be able to push the clutch fork, with your fingers, towards the drivers side (depressing the slave) with ease. I tried to push on mine and it would not budge. I guess having the master adjusted to far out blocks a bleeder inside of the master that allows the slave to readjust over time.
I screwed the nut on the master rod towards the firewall maybe one and a half revolutions and the slave would then push to the drivers side.
Surprise! no more losing clutch on my drives I haven't had an issue since.
 
Thanks, this is a known "issue" with DSM clutches. I'm not even sure I should call it an issue as it's more a matter of properly adjusting the MC rod (along with the upper bolt or cruise switch) to get proper height, play, engagement and disengagement, especially after installing a new clutch or other component, or fixing the notorious pedal play issue with 1G's.

But the clutch is a whole system that involves a bunch of parts and settings and they all have to be set just right and in good shape to work properly, e.g. rod, bolt/switch, MC, SC, line, flywheel step, fork, fulcrum, pedal assembly. I'm finding this out the hard way and still have a ways to go before getting it all right. Not complaining, just learning as I go.
 
Kind of a story. Sorry if it's long but hopefully it helps somebody. I fought clutch issues all year and finally figured it out. I had almost the same issue where I would roll to a stop shortly after bleeding the slave and wouldn't be able to shift into any gear. Sometimes it happened within 5 minutes to 30 minutes of driving. I would have to jump out and bleed the slave cylinder every time.
I eventually decided to buy a new slave, master, and braided line.
I struggled to adjust the master because engagement and disengagment just seemed really low. I seemed to have the same issues still with losing the clutch. So I pulled the trans and measured my step height on the flywheel and decided to have it resurfaced. Replaced pivot ball, fork, and TOB while I was down there.
Still had the same clutch issues.
I eventually came across a thread saying you should be able to push the clutch fork, with your fingers, towards the drivers side (depressing the slave) with ease. I tried to push on mine and it would not budge. I guess having the master adjusted to far out blocks a bleeder inside of the master that allows the slave to readjust over time.
I screwed the nut on the master rod towards the firewall maybe one and a half revolutions and the slave would then push to the drivers side.
Surprise! no more losing clutch on my drives I haven't had an issue since.
Yes, that’s a good point! My suggestion of adding more adjustment rod only makes sense if the clutch actually needs more throw. I followed a video from Jack’s transmissions that instructed to keep adjusting the bolt just until it blocks the fluid from returning from slave to MC, and then back it off so that the slave can be pushed by hand. In my case, I still had plentY of clutch pedal travel to Disengage the clutch. This compensated enough for the play in my clutch pedal rod/ arm coupling. If the play had been more severe, then perhaps I would have had to get it welded.
 
I would roll to a stop shortly after bleeding the slave and wouldn't be able to shift into any gear. Sometimes it happened within 5 minutes to 30 minutes of driving. I would have to jump out and bleed the slave cylinder every time.
I guess having the master adjusted too far out blocks a bleeder inside of the master that allows the slave to readjust over time.

Yes that exact same thing happened to me right after putting in new slave and master cyls. I backed off the master rod adjustment a turn or 2 and that fixed it. The port on the forward end of the master cylinder gets closed off by the first ~2mm of master rod movement. That's the port that joins the cylinder to the reservoir. The port is right on the centerline of the cylinder at the fwd end, just like you see in this gif:



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A followup to this ongoing issue. I was all set to pull the entire pedal assembly and MC so I could replace the clutch lever and either rebuild or replace the MC. But I thought it might be a good idea to first try to remove the lever to see if its "D" hole had worn out.

I was about to try to remove it, when I then thought, why don't I first try to tighten it in case it somehow loosened up and maybe that was the real problem. And what do you know, it was a bit loose, and I was able to tighten down the 14mm nut quite a bit, over half a turn I think.

Now the clutch pedal was pushed all the way up by the spring, and pulling it by hand wouldn't bring it up any further as it butted against the cruise switch! I then saw that there was still a little room to turn the MC rod out, maybe 2-3mm of thread left. So I did that too.

And what do you know, disengagement, while still not at the 55mm point, even taking the thickness of the carpet into account, was significantly higher than it was before. I didn't measure it but I'd say it's now more like 25-30mm, maybe even a bit higher, and there's a decent amount more "play" after full disengagement.

I haven't taken it out for a spin yet, only a few feet back and forth on the street. But I suspect that getting the trans into gear w/o grinding will be less of an issue now.

I think I still need to replace the lever and rebuild or replace the MC and maybe hose, to raise the disengagement point to where it needs to be. I also need to do all the other stuff, like resurface or replace the flywheel, fix the popping out of 1st trans issue and whatever else needs to be fixed there, and probably replace the fork and fulcrum.

But I think I just bought myself some time before having to do all that. With an unresurfaced flywheel I should probably keep the miles to a minimum, but the car just may be driveable now, with all these caveats of course. Can't believe I hadn't thought of this simple "fix" before.
 
Good deal. At one point I thought I had a leak in a core plug, firewall side. Turned out to be just some odd route that coolant was finding from my failing water pump, so a much easier fix. It was dripping from behind the AC comp. I was starting to prepare to remove the intake manifold before I made a few more checks, and discovered my error. Changed out the pump and no leaks after fully running for a while. Sometimes you catch a break!
I suggest that you replace that clutch MC before long, since a failure there is likely to occur while you're out driving, even on a test. Mine went to the floor and stayed there while rolling up to a red light. Not fun to force it into first without the clutch just to limp off the road. It hadn't showed but a hint of leaking fluid externally, but somehow the internal seal just decided it had worked long enough. They're also not difficult to replace. Few hours, really. Even on a nicer winter day.
 
Good deal. At one point I thought I had a leak in a core plug, firewall side. Turned out to be just some odd route that coolant was finding from my failing water pump, so a much easier fix. It was dripping from behind the AC comp. I was starting to prepare to remove the intake manifold before I made a few more checks, and discovered my error. Changed out the pump and no leaks after fully running for a while. Sometimes you catch a break!
I suggest that you replace that clutch MC before long, since a failure there is likely to occur while you're out driving, even on a test. Mine went to the floor and stayed there while rolling up to a red light. Not fun to force it into first without the clutch just to limp off the road. It hadn't showed but a hint of leaking fluid externally, but somehow the internal seal just decided it had worked long enough. They're also not difficult to replace. Few hours, really. Even on a nicer winter day.

Oh absolutely. I realize that I didn't really "fix" the problem, just found a way to counter it temporarily. Most likely the nut I tightened loosened because of the widening "D" hole and/or rounded-down "D" pedal shaft section, and will loosen again, probably sooner than later. It's a little like compensating for a stretched brake cable on a bike with an adjustment nut. That's something you do out on the road to allow you to get home so you can replace the cable.

I still need to actually fix the lever "D" shaft/hole issue, replace or rebuild the MC, and do all these other things. This was a band aid, of course. But at least I can drive it short distances if I need to, and even if this "fix" fails on the road, there's still just enough disengagement play that with finessing and finagling, rev matching and double-clutching, I can change gears well enough to get home. Plus, sometimes even "band aid" fixes give you that boost of confidence you need to then get the job done properly, especially if it's pretty involved.
 
Now the clutch pedal was pushed all the way up by the spring, and pulling it by hand wouldn't bring it up any further as it butted against the cruise switch! I then saw that there was still a little room to turn the MC rod out, maybe 2-3mm of thread left. So I did that too.

Hey that's really good! I was worried that there might be something goofed up with your turn-over spring, but now it seems like that part is ok.
So now when your pedal is up, does it push the plunger on that switch all the way in? Or does it still stick out a little bit?
 
Hey that's really good! I was worried that there might be something goofed up with your turn-over spring, but now it seems like that part is ok.
So now when your pedal is up, does it push the plunger on that switch all the way in? Or does it still stick out a little bit?

There might be a smidgen more room too turn the cruise switch further up, but basically the pedal stopper is now going all the way up and onto the switch plunger, through the action of the spring alone, unlike before, where I had to manually pull it up.

Of course as I wrote above my "fix" is just a temporary one as tightening the nut just uses friction to compensate for a poor pedal shaft-lever hole fit, and there's clearly slop there that needs to be addressed properly. But it buys me a little time.

Once I'm done I hope to have literally everything working optimally, perhaps even better than before as shifting was always bit notchy with this car. I might have to replace a bunch of parts in the trans to make that happen, especially synchros. But, too cold to do that now.
 
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