Question about main bearing/assembly

[Albrecht09]

Hey, Im putting together a project car I got for a steal, but had a quick question. The block and crank have all been machined, and I was going to install the new main bearings, I plastigauged them and the oil clearances were all good, so I took it back apart, cleaned everything one last time, and started the final assembly. When putting the bearings in for the final time, I noticed I didn't have any more assembly lube left, so I used some ARP Ultra torque Fastener Assembly Lubricant (Pt # 100-9908) on both sides of the bearings, and put the crank in and torqued it down. (New ARP main's btw). Once it was all torqued, I CAN NOT get the crank to move at all..and there are no pistons installed yet, just the crank. Is it okay that I used that ARP lube for the bearings? Or am I going to have to take it apart and clean everything off and use something else?

 

[LeeSD1]

It should not be the lubricant that is stopping the crank from turning. Id make sure you have the appropriate size bearings. You should have who ever machine the crank to assemble it with the right size bearings. Most motors I assemble the crank can turn freely.

 

[Albrecht09]

The Plastigauge showed there was ~.0012 in. oil clearance on all the bearing surfaces, the hayne's manual says the standard is .0008- .0016 in., with a service limit of .004 in. If the bearings were the wrong size, wouldn't it show there?

 

[ba109296]

If you checked them before and they had that much clearance then you most likely did something wrong when you did the final assembly.

Something has to be wrong. Maybe a cap flipped or put in the wrong place.

And I would take it all apart and get some good assembly lube.
Take the time to use the right stuff and take your time. Your motor will thank you in the end.

 

[bryanwheat]

You would of been way better off to just use oil and prime the system before starting it. That stuff that you used is very thick and could definitely make the crank very hard to turn over, especially with those tight clearances.

 

[NHerron]

Was the crank checked for straight? Did you/or machinist measure crank main bores for consistency with the crank removed and ARP mains installed? Sometimes the measurement comes out oval with a higher clamp load (due to the ARP studs) and needs to be line bored or honed.

I don't want to assume, more like double check what I read but, did you lube both the front and back of the bearings? (Basically lubing the bearing saddle, put the bearing in and then lubing the bearing) The bearing should be placed in the saddle dry and then assembly lube goes on the bearing

 

[2slow4now]

Like Bryanwheat and ba109 said I wouldn't have used that lube. Use a good quality assembly lube.

+1 Nherron

Can you get your hands on some measuring tools like micrometers, dial calipers, and bore gauges? The plastigauge is ok but it won't show if the parts were machined out of round. Do you know who did the machining? Maybe they would help you check it out or let you mic the parts yourself at the shop. If its their mistake they may just fix it.

 

[donniekak]

Putting lube behind the bearings put the bearing against the crank. The main bores, and backs of the bearings must be clean, and oil free.

 

[Albrecht09]

I'm just taking everything to the machine shop to get checked out, especially considering the situation. Heres how I got to this point:

I bought a project car that was in pieces, the block was already machined, Eagle H-beam rods, Wiesco pistons, ARP heads and mains, all brand new. The crank was brand new as well, but thats where the problem starts, and where the previous owner left off due to having a second kid. He ordered a brand new Eagle crank, but they sent him the wrong one, they sent him a 94mm crank for a 2.1L stroker kit. It was already assembled in the block when I got it, bearings were brand new too. I got a stock crank out of another GST I have, and it wouldn't turn when assembled. The kid also gave me a brand new set of ACL bearings, but I think they are the wrong ones. The center bearing that normally has the thrust bearing flange on it is different.. Just to be safe I'm going to have the shop look over everything. Hopefully they will do it for cheap/free considering I use them a lot, and also will be dropping off the head off a 5.9l 12valve cummins motor while I'm there to get some work done to it.

 

[BogusSVO]

Hey, Im putting together a project car I got for a steal, but had a quick question. The block and crank have all been machined, and I was going to install the new main bearings, I plastigauged them and the oil clearances were all good, so I took it back apart, cleaned everything one last time, and started the final assembly. When putting the bearings in for the final time, I noticed I didn't have any more assembly lube left, so I used some ARP Ultra torque Fastener Assembly Lubricant (Pt # 100-9908) on both sides of the bearings, and put the crank in and torqued it down. (New ARP main's btw). Once it was all torqued, I CAN NOT get the crank to move at all..and there are no pistons installed yet, just the crank. Is it okay that I used that ARP lube for the bearings? Or am I going to have to take it apart and clean everything off and use something else?

Now ...

Putting lube behind the bearings put the bearing against the crank. The main bores, and backs of the bearings must be clean, and oil free.

I'm just taking everything to the machine shop to get checked out, especially considering the situation. Heres how I got to this point:

I bought a project car that was in pieces, the block was already machined, Eagle H-beam rods, Wiesco pistons, ARP heads and mains, all brand new. The crank was brand new as well, but thats where the problem starts, and where the previous owner left off due to having a second kid. He ordered a brand new Eagle crank, but they sent him the wrong one, they sent him a 94mm crank for a 2.1L stroker kit. It was already assembled in the block when I got it, bearings were brand new too. I got a stock crank out of another GST I have, and it wouldn't turn when assembled. The kid also gave me a brand new set of ACL bearings, but I think they are the wrong ones. The center bearing that normally has the thrust bearing flange on it is different.. Just to be safe I'm going to have the shop look over everything. Hopefully they will do it for cheap/free considering I use them a lot, and also will be dropping off the head off a 5.9l 12valve cummins motor while I'm there to get some work done to it.

You need to check the year of your block and use the main bearings for that year. Some 7 bolt blocks use a saddle bearing for the thrust. A saddle bearing has the thrust built on the main bearing.

Other 7 bolts ran a main bearing and thrust washer set up

 

[Albrecht09]

I corrected the mistake with using the lube on the under side of the bearings, and re cleaned, and reassembled, using the correct assembly lube this time, still same issue.

And the block, and crank, are from a 95. The block is originally a Talon TSI AWD 7 bolt, that uses the saddle type bearing where the thrust is a part of the center main bearing. The crank came out of a 95 GST, also used saddle type thrust bearing.

 

[bryanwheat]

I corrected the mistake with using the lube on the under side of the bearings, and re cleaned, and reassembled, using the correct assembly lube this time, still same issue.

And the block, and crank, are from a 95. The block is originally a Talon TSI AWD 7 bolt, that uses the saddle type bearing where the thrust is a part of the center main bearing. The crank came out of a 95 GST, also used saddle type thrust bearing.

The clearances are too tight, the crank journals are out of round, the main bores are out of round or the crank is severely bent.

 

[JusMX141]

Is there any chance you're putting the girdle on backwards or are using the girdle from another block without getting it align-honed? That will do it for sure.

Also, swapping from standard OEM main bolts to ARP main studs would prompt an align-hone as well. Not sure if this was done with any of the other machine work, but it should have been done.

 

[Albrecht09]

Is there any chance you're putting the girdle on backwards or are using the girdle from another block without getting it align-honed? That will do it for sure.

Also, swapping from standard OEM main bolts to ARP main studs would prompt an align-hone as well. Not sure if this was done with any of the other machine work, but it should have been done.

Definitely not backwards, arrow points to the crank pulley end, and didn't swap them, and it was machined as well. Ill try my brand new eagle crank to see if it does the same thing, if it moves freely, its safe to assume the oem crank I'm using is bad? But if it locks up to then it would have to be the bearing tolerances correct?

 

[bryanwheat]

Definitely not backwards, arrow points to the crank pulley end, and didn't swap them, and it was machined as well. Ill try my brand new eagle crank to see if it does the same thing, if it moves freely, its safe to assume the oem crank I'm using is bad? But if it locks up to then it would have to be the bearing tolerances correct?

It could also be the main bores out of round. Before trying to throw the other crank in there i would pull everything apart and measure the main bores for the correct diameter and make sure that they aren't out of round. Also make sure that they are straight with each other. I would also check the crank journals to make sure they aren't out of round and have the crank checked for straightness. One other possibility is that you have a thrust bearing that is made for a crank with a machined thrust surface which would be thicker than a normal bearing.

 

[JusMX141]

Something's not right then. I'd try loosening them up one journal at a time until you find which one's holding you up and see if that helps you track down the problem area.

There's literally no way you could have that much oil tolerance and bind the crank.

 

[nubi4life]

I was running into the same problem. Have your machine shop check the block out for all the proper clearances. Also check the crank out to make sure it doesnt have any scarring. Also make sure your bearings are the corect size. Torque specs are very important too.