Q&A on the 14B stock turbo

[Dragon Talon]

This thread is started to gather info. on the stock 14b turbo or on the 16g turbo....Since upgradeing a turbo on any DSM is a pretty pennie, Me and some other people i bet would like to know... How much or how far can you push a 14B turbo on a stock set up..?????Right now as is I run my AWD open exhaust, with stock everything. I have boosted up to 17lbs without promblem, and watching the volts on the A/F... I run perfectly rich without leaning out. But turn up the boost any higher and i get fuel cut.... I think i have a stock fuelvpump but I'm un sure. The block just had a new crank and bearings put in.. So how much can I tune my stock car without blowing it up?????

 

[BaddAssGst]

This thread is started to gather info. on the stock 14b turbo or on the 16g turbo....Since upgradeing a turbo on any DSM is a pretty pennie, Me and some other people i bet would like to know... How much or how far can you push a 14B turbo on a stock set up..?????Right now as is I run my AWD open exhaust, with stock everything. I have boosted up to 17lbs without promblem, and watching the volts on the A/F... I run perfectly rich without leaning out. But turn up the boost any higher and i get fuel cut.... I think i have a stock fuelvpump but I'm un sure. The block just had a new crank and bearings put in.. So how much can I tune my stock car without blowing it up?????

A 14b can go farther then you will ever take it but is it practical? Not really. Because it's been done, doesn't mean just anyone can do it. Your running out of fuel (injectors and pump) to supply all the air that your flowing. There is no set way to tune the car as all cars are different but when you say Tune, what are using to tune it? On a stock car, there is really nothing to tune.

 

[Dragon Talon]

Tune by means of makeing adjustment on timing, boost control, and MAF hack or modified. So how much boost could you run sufficiatly on a 14B???? without changeing you rinjectors or fuel pump.....

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Shouldn't exceed 16.

 

[Dragon Talon]

Shouldn't exceed 16.

So does that mean that 16lbs. or between 12lbs-15lbs. would make my Awd hall but and still not through knock codes?????or haveing fuel promblems??/

 

[Stapl3]

Shouldn't exceed 16.

I don't understand where people get these magic #'s.

Stock injectors and pump have gone WAY further than most want to believe.

 

[Dragon Talon]

No matter what I trust both my DSM's .... And so far my AWD has been doing good at 12lbs to 17lbs....

 

[Stapl3]

No one can give you a "psi" because all cars are different. Because you're asking, I'll suggest putting it at around 16 and not moving it until you feel confident with a logger/afc.

 

[funniegus]

Let youre motor get broken in first then, otherwise youll blow it faster. You should at least rewire youre fuel pump if youre going to boost more than stock levels. 18psi and youre turbo is just blowing hot air. Do free mods if you havent. I also heard that installing a nt fpr will make youre 450 injectors flow like 560's.

 

[almostquick]

if you look around there are plenty of guys with pretty conservative cars running 12's on the 14b, we wont mention any of the 10 or 11 second cars since I doubt that you want to go as far as they did, but it is possible. as far as mods go, I would certainly get a pump, the way your going with the 14B, the stock pump is really becoming a resrtiction. also get a MAFT, version 1.37 or whatever, you can eliminate fuel cut, and doing all the tuning that needs to be done. get a FMIC, you can run good numbers on the SMIC but with a FMIC it would be so much easier, crush or dodge mod your 1G bov. with the power that your going to be making, get an ACT 2600/street disk. porting all of your exhaust (turbo,o2,mani). also, get a datalogger, and keep an eye on injector duty cycles, knock,etc, and keep turining up the boost until you start getting nasty knock, remeber ever 7 counts of knock will bump your timing down. an AFPR would also be nice, but not needed. oh and not to mention maybe some 101 unleaded gas and a good tune. That set-up right their will get you pretty far, and it will be a fun car to drive. happy boosting. Hope I was helpful.

 

[Dragon Talon]

if you look around there are plenty of guys with pretty conservative cars running 12's on the 14b, we wont mention any of the 10 or 11 second cars since I doubt that you want to go as far as they did, but it is possible. as far as mods go, I would certainly get a pump, the way your going with the 14B, the stock pump is really becoming a resrtiction. also get a MAFT, version 1.37 or whatever, you can eliminate fuel cut, and doing all the tuning that needs to be done. get a FMIC, you can run good numbers on the SMIC but with a FMIC it would be so much easier, crush or dodge mod your 1G bov. with the power that your going to be making, get an ACT 2600/street disk. porting all of your exhaust (turbo,o2,mani). also, get a datalogger, and keep an eye on injector duty cycles, knock,etc, and keep turining up the boost until you start getting nasty knock, remeber ever 7 counts of knock will bump your timing down. an AFPR would also be nice, but not needed. oh and not to mention maybe some 101 unleaded gas and a good tune. That set-up right their will get you pretty far, and it will be a fun car to drive. happy boosting. Hope I was helpful.

thanks for input.. but what is a MAFT. I think i know but refresh me please...

 

[Dragon Talon]

Let youre motor get broken in first then, otherwise youll blow it faster. You should at least rewire youre fuel pump if youre going to boost more than stock levels. 18psi and youre turbo is just blowing hot air. Do free mods if you havent. I also heard that installing a nt fpr will make youre 450 injectors flow like 560's.

makeing the 450cc injectors flow like 560cc"s.. is that possible with this trick and what is a N/T (FPR)??????????

 

[DSMcrazy3]

what is a MAFT. I think i know but refresh me please...

I'm no 4g expert, but I believe it's MAF-T(not that the - REALLY matters) but it's Mass Air Flow Translator. All I know is that it allows you to vent the car without the ECU pouring in the same amount of fuel, when that expected amount of air isn't recirculated back into the engine.

 

[SlowImport]

The MAFT will let you run a 3" maf and run it in a blow through setup(after the turbo) and run the blow off valve open atmosphere. You can also do some tunning with the MAFT. Its a good mod for those who are on a budget and still want to make some good power.

hope this helps,
Josh

 

[Stapl3]

If you don't know what a MAFT is, just put your boost at 16psi and leave it.

 

[almostquick]

maft, allows you to use a GM Maf from cars like an Implala SS, it able to flow more air than either of the 1g or 2g mafs, it helps spool up and gives you the ability to throw any injectors in the car, turn a few knobs and the car will start up like its got stockers in it, it can basically eliminate the need for an SAFC, bucause it has all of the tuning adjustments that the AFC has, you can also eliminate fuel cut at a flip of a switch. oh and Ive seen a eprom chip and Maft make 540hp, not to mention all the 300hp-450hp cars that its on also. its a great mod that will take you a long way. read up on it at ramchargers.com

 

[Dragon Talon]

Again thanks for the input.. good tuneing info. if you ask me......I will run my AWD at about 15lbs of boost at the track this fri. and see what happens. i might go up to 17lbs for fun..... I will let every1 know my et.s ......

 

[mavisky]

I also heard that installing a nt fpr will make youre 450 injectors flow like 560's.

That's a lie. You'd have to run something along the lines of 25-30 extra base fp to get to that flow rate on the 450's, the nt fpr gives you something like an extra 8psi base. I used to run one but can't remember the exact change in pressure.

 

[dsm-onster]

That's a lie. You'd have to run something along the lines of 25-30 extra base fp to get to that flow rate on the 450's, the nt fpr gives you something like an extra 8psi base. I used to run one but can't remember the exact change in pressure.

6.5 psi increase to be precise . 450s in stock 1g context flow 415cc per the DSM_Tuning_Sheet_v2.1 found elsewere on this forum. If you put an n/t fpr in the stock system then you have around an 8% increase in fuel that can be comensated for by hacking your maf (usually).

 

[Dragon Talon]

Well track day just passed and testing the AWD at different psi was great. Best run was at about 14-16lbs.. no fuel cut or promblems... got a dag good e/t time. guess stock set up can go along way....

 

[CorvetteBoy]

What did you run at what MPH?

 

[Dragon Talon]

I lost my time slip.. Dagg IT !!!!! But I know I was breaking 14's easy past 95mph..Never turned up the boost all the way...

 

[mavisky]

I lost my time slip.. Dagg IT !!!!! But I know I was breaking 14's easy past 95mph..Never turned up the boost all the way...

So you were breaking into the 14's (as in running 14's) or you were breaking out of the 14's (as in running in the 13's)? Turning the boost up all the way is not a good idea. What boost were you running?

Might want to update your profile too so it doesn't read 91 n/t

 

[JessesTalon]

on my stock 14b stock injectors on my old 94 I ran 23 psi tuned on a gm maf with a good amount of mods and it ran sweet as hell... easily was a 12 second car...

Artictsi ran 11's or some crazy number on his 14b... it CAN be done..

but its so cheap to get a upgraded turbo now... its not like the old days where people were peeing there pants if you had a 16g...

my 90 I ran it at 15psi... felt nice and strong, kept up with my buddies 13 second 1g...

 

[Dragon Talon]

I was running about 14lbs. boost when I was running mid 14's....And also if you check my profile I have 2 DSM strong..Both Talons.. 1 show car and 1 race car. A DSMer's dream..