not stock turbo on my a/t?

[Mike1992]

wow, so now im really confused. . . i guess i have a 14 on my at then. . . and i know i have 390 injectors cuz i had to replace em. (all orange top when i pulled them off which im pretty sure is the 390)

so i guess my question now is. . . anyone got a decent 1g mt setup the need to part ways with?

Im pretty sure 390's are grey or black and orange/pink are 2.0 NT injectors.

 

[oldman]

Jesus christ, mis-information all over the place.

Tell me about it, I don't even know where to begin. WTF

Bottom line, if you plan on using the 390cc injectors with a 14b, this is the advice you should listen to until you upgrade the injectors.

Yes, you can do it if you bypass the BCS and run the boost source straight to the wastegate. If you keep the BCS, run a logger to make sure you're not knocking.

Removing the bcs will allow you to run even lower boost level to ensure you are not maxing out the 390cc.

If you are installing the 450cc, you MUST either swap in the MT ecu or tune it with safc/logger combo. Good luck.

 

[staticbrainwash]

like i said before, if im going to upgrade it (aka keep the 14b but get a new one). i want to get it right, and do injectors, ecu and FPR.

i have a feeling the ecu is going to be the hardest to locate, but thats what junkyards are for right? unless someone know where i could get an eprom 1g mt ecu, that would rock my world.

 

[doug]

One good source of A/T-related info is the DSM A/T list. Go here:
http://www.ecanfix.com/users/atdsm/

 

[HighPsi92GST]

ALL 1g's come with 14b's.

And thats why your a rookie.

As far as the ECU, your best bet is to either find someone local and look it over before you pay, or go to a junkyard and open the ECU before you pay.

1g ECU's are known for their leaking caps, which can destroy the board. It's risky buying on ebay or anywhere on the net (unless you really trust the person) because people will sell an ECU that's leaking like crazy, then claim that you are trying to return your burned one to rip THEM off. I know this from experience.

Good luck.

 

[ZUUHLSGSX]

like i said before, if im going to upgrade it (aka keep the 14b but get a new one). i want to get it right, and do injectors, ecu and FPR.

i have a feeling the ecu is going to be the hardest to locate, but thats what junkyards are for right? unless someone know where i could get an eprom 1g mt ecu, that would rock my world.

i have a set of 450cc stock injectors that ill part ways with for 40 bucks if you want them. i upgraded my turbo and fuel system so i dont need them. they worked perfectly when i took them off. you would need new o rings for them.

 

[staticbrainwash]

i wanna get everything kinda at the same time. . .

so hopefully on wednesday ill have about 450 bucks to play with. (im selling a marshall half stack)

so then ill prolly pick up the ecu, injectors, and turbo.

still gotta do axles and a left tie rod sometime too. i hate people who don't maintain cars.

everything i've done to this thing since i got it in january has been to repair and maintain things that went bad.

thank you to everyone who has been helping me out with this, i appreciate it a lot.

ill search the classifides, but if anyone has anything in good shape let me know.

if i end up needing a manifold with the new turbo, any suggestions on what i pick up? 1g mt manny, 2g manny, evo?

 

[psychlow]

The only way to increase the actual mass flow of air entering the engine under these conditions would be higher boost pressure or cams/heads/ext.

Pat, I'm sorry, but this is completely incorrect.

Pressure and flow are two different animals. The reason for this is a variable called temperature.

A 14B's compressor wheel pushes more air at the same speed than a 13G compressor. In reverse, this means that a 14B's compressor doesn't need to spin as fast to create the same pressure. The faster you spin a compressor, the more it heats the compressed air.

When you heat air, it takes up more volume. This is because air molecules are always moving around inside their container. The force we measure as pressure is the result of those molecules pressing against the walls of that container. When you add heat, this increases the molecules' kinetic energy, and (through devices too complex to explain here) increases the molecules' speed - they collide with other air molecules and their container's walls more often and with more force. To us, this results in a measurable increase in pressure.

What this translates into is that at the same pressure in the intake system, a 14B is actually moving more air molecules into the engine because the air charge is cooler and denser compared to air moving from a 13G. It's not a HUGE increase - it's not going to double the output or anything, but there will be more air - and you'll need to make sure the 390cc injectors are capable of handling that - which is why I suggested using a logger if you want to run stock boost. The 390's should be stout enough, but there could be other troubles with a 12-16 year old car to contend with that might affect the air/fuel ratio (a pump that's not quite flowing the way it used to, for example.)

 

[staticbrainwash]

ok. . . i just found this site, i don't know anything about it so i thought i'd ask.

it looks like it's got just about everything i could possibly need for my upgrade for pretty damn cheap.

http://www.koumotorsports.com/

anyone heard good or bad?

 

[HighPsi92GST]

if i end up needing a manifold with the new turbo, any suggestions on what i pick up? 1g mt manny, 2g manny, evo?

1g MT Manny
the good - CHEAP! Easy to find
the bad - prone to cracking

2g Manny
The good - less prone to cracks
The bad -

Evo3
The good - Flows good, less prone to cracks
The bad - hard to find used, and 220 (approx) new

 

[staticbrainwash]

will i also need a 2g o2 housing? or will my 1g one fit fine?

 

[HighPsi92GST]

1g will fit

 

[psychlow]

1g will fit

Agreed - the 2G piece flows slightly better, but it's not necessary.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

i guess my real question is. . .

weather or not it's a 13g, could i get a 14b, and leave the bcs on it to keep boost low?

or would i still need to do a fuel upgrade from at to mt. (ecu, injectors, fpr)?

i've got oil burning somewhere and im thinking it's my turbo seals. thats why im curious

Just for some clarification, my 94 AT came from the factory with a "TD-04H" 13G turbo and 390cc grey topped Nippon Denso injectors. I'd post pics, but that stuff is long gone

As others have said, find a cheap set of MT 450cc injectors, rewire your fuel pump, but under no circumstances do you want to use the MT's FPR... Our 1G AT DSMs have a higher base fuel pressure of 43psi vs that of the 36-something of the MTs... Keep your AT FPR and reap the full cc rating. The 450cc MT's injectors are rated at 450cc @ 43psi (Most of the injectors out there are rated @ 43psi/3 bar anyway), despite the fact that they are ran at a lower base fuel pressure. This is true for our 1G ATs only... The 2Gs all got the same base fuel pressure of 43psi.
Hope this helps

If you are still stumped on finding the correct seal for your mistery turbo... Look at the casting numbers on the compressor housing, opposite from the "TD-05H" those numbers will be the key in determining what turbo you are running.

 

[staticbrainwash]

thank you very much, that helps a lot.

no one seemed to know about the FPR.

im pretty sure it's the 14b, and if it is for sure. im just gonna get a new seal. there's not any shaft play at all.

aside from that, im gonna pick up a ssbraided oil line, 2g manny, new stainless manny studs, 450 injectors, and mt ecu.

hopefully ill have enough to do some suspension. i need it badly.

if anyone can help locate an eprom ecu for a 92 talon awd, that would be awesome. i can't find anything.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Have you even checked your AT ECU for an EPROM? -I got luck on mine... It had one! I would look into yours as well. -Don't bother with the MT ECU for now... I was able to run a set of 450cc off on my factory AT ECU, but I was using a logger and (at the time) hacking the 1G MAS to allow for more unmetered air to lean it out. I got pretty close without the use of an AFC, just be sure to log it.

Currently, I am still running the stock ECU, just with a custom EPROM program that was roughly based on the MT's E931 EPROM, but has more 2G'ish fuel and timing maps (thanks to Kyle's work with 1G/2G code comparison).. Here is a good link for more along those lines...

http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=475&page=1&pp=10

I'd also recommend FFWD.com's SS ARP turbo-to-manifold bolts and Permatex's Nickel anti-seize. While you are in there, I'd also get a 2G O2 housing (you will have to extend your O2 sensor wires about 8-10" and modify the lower heat shield for the new O2 senosr location). Unported, the 2G is a lot larger than the 1G O2 housing. With DIY porting, it will flow even more.

Just be 100% sure on what turbo you have... The replacement seal kits are available for each specific "model" of turbo... Having started with my old 13G, I never learned the 14B's casting numbers, but here are the numbers to look for... The type of turbo is next to it. NOTE: All of these turbos are still using the "TD-05H" compressor housing

9178-05200 is a small 16G
9178-04200 is a big 16G
9178-04700 is an Evo3 16G

 

[staticbrainwash]

ok, so i pulled off my intake pipe to give you all some shots of the turbo.

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hopefully that helps you guys help me figure out what size seals i need.

 

[staticbrainwash]

so i don't know why thta didn't work. . . well try this again.

if it doesn't work check out my gallery, ill post them there.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

The numbers you want are in that last pic... Unfortunately, I can't read the stamped numbers inbetween the "01" and the "0". Thos two digits are what determine the model of turbo, but...

From the other pic, it looks like a 14B, as al of the turbine wheel's fins are all the same height... Anything from a small 16G and larger has fins that are staggered... Here is an example of my Evo 16G's turbine wheel...

 

[staticbrainwash]

ok, i figured it was 14. thanks for the help.

now, how hard is replacing these seals? just. . . pull apart, replace, and re assemble?

cuz i've also got a new oil return line, and im getting a braided oil feed to put on at the same time.

i assume im basically going to be performing a slight rebuild on this turbo, so im just wondering what all is involved.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Do yourself a favor and locate the cause of the problem first... Pull and inspect your existing exhaust manifold prior to ordering any replacement seals for your turbo. -You may find that the source from the oil leak might not be from your turbo at all.

It could be any number of things, but the two that I would look into first are the banjo bolt's copper crush washers that help seal the oil and coolant feed/return lines to the turbo in the event of leaking oil on the ground from the front of the car. (easy fix)
-AND-
If you are burning oil (seeing clouds of smoke coming from the tailpipe), then I would remove the exhaust manifold and check it for oil buildup inside the runners. If you have any signs of oil build-up in the manifold, then your turbo is most likely not leaking at all. -Your head's valve stem seals, and/or piston rings might be leaking oil into the combustion chamber. (not as easy of a fix)

Just trying to save you time & money

 

[staticbrainwash]

well. . . here's what the manny is looking like right now. (hence my need for new studs)

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yeah, i know it's bad. but i havn't had any kind of cash flow till just recently. so there's a lot i need to fix. i hate people who sell unmaintained cars, or maybe i should hate me for being stupid and buying it. oh well. . . there's the pics for ya. i don't know if anyone can tell anything from those.

 

[psychlow]

FWIW, I'm 100% certain that is a TD05H-14B.

From the other pic, it looks like a 14B, as al of the turbine wheel's fins are all the same height... Anything from a small 16G and larger has fins that are staggered... Here is an example of my Evo 16G's turbine wheel...

I believe you mean "compressor wheel."

 

[staticbrainwash]

ok, i pulled my ecu. . . im pretty sure it's not eprom. there's no sockets and it was just some remanufactured ecu from the guy before me.

next, i don't have oil dripping from the front of the car, but when she's been idling or sitting for a while hot, and i accelerate or turn her on and accelerate, i can smell oil burning from somewhere. i assume it's either from bad washers and bolts on my oil lines to the turbo, or it's from the 3 manny bolts im missing and something is comming from there.

i havn't had a chance to pull the manny, cuz i don't have the time to pull the turbo with it.

thanks for all your help everyone.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

FWIW, I'm 100% certain that is a TD05H-14B....


I believe you mean "compressor wheel."

Yup, my bad... I meant to say "Compressor Wheel". -Listen to what I mean, not what I say



Original Poster:

Have you considered that may be that the smell you are smelling is just one huge exhaust leak? -With 3 broken studs all on one side of the manifold, I can't imagine that that seals up very well at all.

When you get around to it, I'd pull the whole turbo/manifold as one unit... IMO, it is much easier to do it that way when you still have that single turbo/manifold stud in place. It would be a good idea to replace all 4 bolts or future endeavors (at least, replace that single stud with another bolt).