Pusher fans with A/C?

[NHerron]

I'd like to clean up the bay by getting rid of the puller fans. Anticipating a twin scroll setup in the future. Anyway, I spoke with someone from BECOOL fans and they do not recommend pushers with a condensor. Didn't seem like he was the type to enjoy being questioned. I wanted to know why I can't use pushers, but it's okay to use pullers in the same scenario? Said it would hinder airflow at highway speeds.

Rule of thumb, not exact, but a 4 cylinder needs 1230-1600cfm for cooling. If I got two small pushers fans, even 9" becool fans I'd have enough plus extra, even with the efficientcy losses of pushers.

Assuming proper ducting I wouldn't think fan placement would make a problem. Like a basic series circuit with a resistor, the current will stay the same no matter the resistor placement.

 

[Street Surgeon]

The GVR4 uses a pusher fan for the A/C and a puller on the radiator as stock.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Well, I do this on my track car (yes, I still have AC haha) and it works just fine for me. At least I think as I'm not taking any data and certainly it's ONE car amidst thousands so hard to value my data point, but it's keep my temps in line just fine in stop and go traffic on hot days. I have one puller on the passenger side, and a pusher on the driver's, the former tied to the coolant temp and the latter for the a/c.

Now I should add I have a very non-standard cooling system, with a very thick dual-pass radiator, a header tank, and a coolant swirl pot, so it could be this all works well just because of all that.

edit - right after hitting submit I realized I totally wasn't commenting on the alleged issue with the pusher fan. Yeesh. My car is able to cool just fine with the pusher on one side in track events and definitely on the highway (I pretty much hover at my thermostat's temp at highway), so it's possible to have one, but again I do have a very non-standard setup so your mileage may vary I probably shouldn't have commented considering how non-standard my setup is haha

 

[NHerron]

Thanks for the comments guys. I read your thread on the swirl pot -interesting stuff in there. You still have AC? Is your condenser modified? What's the biggest fan one could fit between the FMIC & condenser?

 

[TSiAWD666]

Yeah I still have AC because I drive to/from track events and I don't give a rats ass about a bit of lost time as long as I don't have to sweat like a pig driving. My favorite track is 4.5 hours away!

I think 10". It fits between onto the condenser's front side snug between the framing of the radiator support.

My condenser is the OEM one, original one on my 99.

 

[underradar92]

I've got dual pushers on the condenser, no issues at all with a drop-in Fluidyne radiator.

AC works well too.

 

[NHerron]

What size fans did you use Jim?

 

[NHerron]

I'm really considering getting some pusher fans, even though I just got my pullers in the mail. But would like some more heads up specifics, possibly some pictures?

What's the biggest pusher fans possible to mount to the condenser? Do I have to modify anything to fit?


I somewhat got my answer to the pusher fan thing though. The reason is because of the fan motor blocking some of the airflow at highway speeds. Also, being a general airflow resistance at highway speeds, due to the fan blades, just like the puller fans. THEN, because of size constraints (radiator support frame etc), you only can use a fan which is smaller than what a puller would have been.

A little tip to comparing airflow, fan from fan, (like comparing OEM vs Spal) is to check the amperage draw. Yes blade material weight can be a small factor, but it's a good baseline according to a trusted fan manufacturer. So you can save the money which would be used for an anemometer and just get multimeter that can check amperage. Even bench testing would be an okay test, even though it's not working hard to push/pull air through a radiator.

 

[NHerron]

No pictures yet but I just ordered some gnarly Spal pushers'. Long life 12" curved blade fans, quiet operation supposedly. And 1360CFM each! SPAL # 30102030 VA10-AP70/LL-61S

Becool fans are literally Spal fans, not sure how I missed that before buying my Becool 75080 pullers, which is really Spal P/N: VA10-AP50/C-25A. Says it right on the fan motor. This fan has same exact dimensions as the 1360CFM pushers I just bought, EXCEPT for the total thickness, due to the motor. Which is 3.4" vs. 2.4".

Let me say, the Spal 12" pullers I originally bought are FRIGGIN LOUD. They are straight blades and fan is rated 1230CFM. Take the stock fans and double the noise, with an even higher pitch. Pretty sure if using two of those pullers, well shrouded, including between condenser and IC, that the bumper would make small animals disappear .

Measurements based on 97 Eclipse GSX Manual

-Condenser CORE (not including end tube things) - 26 x 12 1/2. The fans' MAX height cannot exceed much past 12 1/2. It's a damn good fit. If using that size, the fans' edges must not be thicker than 1.1" otherwise you will be trimming something.

-Below the Condenser is the frame support. The condenser is set in there about 1-13/16 deep. In other words the fans total thickness can be 1-13/16 before it protrudes beyond the frame support (might be a problem if you mounted your FMIC flush to frame support)

The new pushers I bought are 3.4" and I will be needing to cut and reweld the mounting points on my FMIC so it sits further out to clear the fans motor. I COULD shim the condenser to sit further in the engine bay but I didn't because I would need it to move 3/4" further in. Which might cause the cond. to be in the radiators bubble. And the conds. has one hard line that is ridgid all the way to the air drier, so don't stress that.


I can't wait until this car is done. It should look so clean without those bleh stock fans taking up all the engine bay space!

Anyone of you fellow pusher fan guys have any engine bay pics showing the room without fans?

 

[gofer]

I wasn't going to comment in here since my setup really doesn't help much but, with regards to this.

The new pushers I bought are 3.4" and I will be needing to cut and reweld the mounting points on my FMIC so it sits further out to clear the fans motor.

If you have a welder then your plan here sounds great but, if you're like me and don't have one, this was my solution to pushing my FMIC out to clear the pusher on my radiator. I moved my radiator up into the A/C condenser location, using the existing brackets, and then ran a push fan but the FMIC was in the way. I took a quick trip to my favorite store, Home Depot Racing, and bought some thick rubber washers located in the faucet section.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Just an idea I thought I'd throw out there and save you some money on fab work. Also, moving the FMIC out also means getting longer couplers. You can order a 2' straight coupler and cut it to length from here. ---> 2.5" Silicone 2' Straight Hose, Black

 

[NHerron]

Nice. Good pictures, thanks

Have you ever brazed aluminum, Corey?

I'll be repositioning the bottom radiator pin/dowels so the rad stays secure (1G rad in 2G) and it's a Mishimoto rad. Beautiful rad for sure.

Same with FMIC, so it sits further out towards the front bumper.

www.Muggyweld.com

 

[underradar92]

What size fans did you use Jim?

A pair of 10" ones, I think they are Haydens. I also trimmed the frames and the finger-deflecting apparatus to allow more airflow.

 

[NHerron]

Nice technical term .
Last week I was bench testing the Spal puller fans and noticed how damn fast they moved. Almost like the blades disappeared. Anyway, my sisters less than desirable boyfriend is coming over but before he figures out what question to ask I tell him these fans are the new thing, no blades, like those real bladeless fans. Pretty sure he was contimplating a finger test so I stopped him before the joke went that far.

Funny, my new pusher fans showed up today, definatly nothing you want just the condenser core to support, these upgraded fans have some heavy meat on the motor..

Really a better fan than the other Spals I have, hopefully quieter though.