PTE Injectors flow tested?

[Archer Fabrications]

hey guys, i have been looking around. i got a set of the Mitsubishi PTE 1000CC injectors from extreme psi a while back (part # PTE-SCIM1000) i have read on various pages that these injectors ARE flow tested and matched to within 0.5%. although on ECMLinks website they are saying they are flow tested at 940CC. on PTEs website it says all injectors over 580CC are flow tested and matched although i can not seem to find the part number that extreme psi has on PTE's website. their 1000CC injector part number is SCIO950 does that mean flowed for 950? just a little confused as i am hearing both ways


if anyone has gotten their pte 1000CC MITSUBISHI injectors flow tested, how far off were they from the advertised flow rate? should i expect each individual injector to have a different flow rate?

in ECMLink what are you guys setting your global and dead times to for these? ( i know ECM has suggested dead times and global in the Wiki) looking for personal experience with this and haven't been able to find relevant information on a consistent basis.

i currently have my global set at 52% at an estamated flowrate of 940c which is what ECMlink suggests with their calculator in the application and a dead time of 450 usecs. fuel pressure is at 42.5PSI BASE pressure as recommended by ECMLink

i would take these out of my car and bring them to a local shop but they insist on getting these shipped and not on a local drop off. i cant afford to have my car inoperable for that long so thats why im askin here.

thanks in advance!

Links on contradictary info

http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=75

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/precision-turbo/fuel-injectors.html
^this one is where i cant find the same part number in the mitsubishi injector secion only shows part SCIM950 and not 1000

http://www.precisionturbo.net/air-f...o-and-Engine-Sport-Compact-Mitsu-Injectors/41
^PTE saying their injectors are flow tested and matched within 1% at 43.5PSI (should i change my base pressure to this instead of 42.6? or does 1 psi not make a difference?)


EDIT:
on extremepsi they have this little bit about deadtimes, how would i apply this to ECMLink? do i need to convert the 2.128MS to usecs?

Response/Dead Time:
- Open Response: 1.13 ms
- Close Response: .998 ms
- Total Response Time: 2.128 ms

 

[92AWDHX40]

Well have you asked pte about their injectors thats where i would start first.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Well have you asked pte about their injectors thats where i would start first.

dude, have you ever talked to Percision? i have and they dont know dick about their own turbos.. so i havent bothered to ask about their injectors.... yet

EDIT: called them... and just like i said, they dont know dick about their own crap .. either that or they are not very helpful. they said they do flow test and flow match their mitsubishi injectors... ALTHOUGH they test them at 85% duty cycle... and said if someone were to test them at 90% it would still only be in the 900CC range.. which is contradictory with ECMLink and also which didnt tell me anything about my question as far as them being accurate.. they were not able to give an accurate flow rate for that specific injector.. just a very generalized "within 100CC"s of the advertized flow rate... Origional post still stands... has anyone had these flow tested themselves? same OP questions still apply..

 

[92AWDHX40]

Did you find out any information on them before you bought them, most dsms ive seen run fic injectors not to bash pte, same price fairly between the two, and i got my fics and the flowsheets on them, when they were shipped, looking to run them with link early this summer. Anyone else chime in and give some results or knowledge of whether they are flow tested.


http://www.precisionturbo.net/air-f...cision-Turbo-and-Engine-Domestic-Injectors/42

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Did you find out any information on them before you bought them, most dsms ive seen run fic injectors not to bash pte, same price fairly between the two, and i got my fics and the flowsheets on them, when they were shipped, looking to run them with link early this summer. Anyone else chime in and give some results or knowledge of whether they are flow tested.


http://www.precisionturbo.net/air-f...cision-Turbo-and-Engine-Domestic-Injectors/42

i bought these over 5 months ago and installed them about 2 months ago... when it came down to tuning i had these questions about flow testing..

 

[MY1GDSM]

Not to get side tracked

But are your cars other issues addressed already? EDIT: I see you have been already running them

Not sure, But if it is it shouldn't matter as all that info with out a sheet in hand for that set it's not going to matter.

Your going to have to change the Numbers to match either way...

Also even if you have Injector latency sheet those are still only a starting point.

People need to get out of the habit of looking for the "right" numbers as you never are going to punch in someone else or any general value and have things work out of the box perfect.Now If you do more power to you as there are so many variables that come into play with each persons setup. No One number is going to work for everyone.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

FIC's are flow tested and matched with the flow sheets and are correct. i have read in other threads about this... was just concerned about PTE, if i knew any better at the time i would have gotten FIC 1000's

the timing issue is being worked on yes. but because im having calibration issue and not hitting my target AFR's i was curious if the recomended deadtimes or around there were correct or accurate to what PTE is saying their flow rate is... i know there will always be tweekage of global and deadtime as well as the VE and MAX OCT tables... just wanted to know about the injectors.

im just looking for more solid info on the best place to start instead of something published for the general population (in otherwords not dsms)

 

[Calan]

Unless you are talking about specific testing that only one company (that I know of) can do using actual DSM drivers operating at varying pulse widths, it doesn't really matter.

Any reputable injector supplier is going to "flow match" a set of injectors to 1% or better...which is done with generic, saturated coil drivers (100% IDC) at exactly 43.5 psi on a bench, under what is essentially laboratory conditions. So how does that translate to the way they will run in your car? It doesn't.

Use whatever published numbers you have to get them close, and then use what ECMLink is telling you to dial them in as best as possible along with the airflow calibration.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Unless you are talking about specific testing that only one company (that I know of) can do using actual DSM drivers operating at varying pulse widths, it doesn't really matter.

Any reputable injector supplier is going to "flow match" a set of injectors to 1% or better...which is done with generic, saturated coil drivers (100% IDC) at exactly 43.5 psi on a bench, under what is essentially laboratory conditions. So how does that translate to the way they will run in your car? It doesn't.

Use whatever published numbers you have to get them close, and then use what ECMLink is telling you to dial them in as best as possible along with the airflow calibration.

and im guessing that the only person that you know of that tests using DSM drivers is Thomas Dorris , so he would probably be accurate in that case saying they flow at 940?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Email him and see what he says.

 

[Calan]

and im guessing that the only person that you know of that tests using DSM drivers is Thomas Dorris , so he would probably be accurate in that case saying they flow at 940?

Yes, and maybe.

They probably do flow 940cc/min...under the conditions that they were tested at. The problem is that all injectors have different amounts of latency at different voltages, which effects how they flow under different operating conditions. The only way to find this information is to test each injector individually over a wide range of pulse widths and at different voltages...and FIC, PTE, etc. don't have the ability or the time to do that. So you go with some generic numbers that should be close (and that usually are close enough), and then tweak them based on what the logs are showing you.

 

[MY1GDSM]

but because im having calibration issue and not hitting my target AFR's i was curious if the recomended deadtimes or around there were correct or accurate to what PTE is saying their flow rate is... i know there will always be tweekage of global and deadtime as well as the VE and MAX OCT tables... just wanted to know about the injectors.

Keep in mind injector deadtimes are going to have very little affect on WOT fueling compared to at Idle in comparison so as long as you have "close" numbers and the global is reasonable(from what your logs are saying) I'm not sure if this is where you should be looking to solve your problems.

But, it should have IMHO been the first thing addressed. In regards to your other thread... .

 

[Calan]

Keep in mind injector deadtimes are going to have very little affect on WOT fueling compared to at Idle in comparison so as long as you have "close" numbers and the global is reasonable

Good point ^.

If the global value is reasonable for the fuel type you are running and fuel flow/IDCs look normal, then AFR errors at WOT are almost guaranteed to be caused by airflow calibration issues.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Keep in mind injector deadtimes are going to have very little affect on WOT fueling compared to at Idle in comparison so as long as you have "close" numbers and the global is reasonable(from what your logs are saying) I'm not sure if this is where you should be looking to solve your problems.

But, it should have IMHO been the first thing addressed. In regards to your other thread... .

agreed

Good point ^.

If the global value is reasonable for the fuel type you are running and fuel flow/IDCs look normal, then AFR errors at WOT are almost guaranteed to be caused by airflow calibration issues.

guess i need to strap back on the MAF and do some VE MAF adjust comp tooling i was unaware that dead times only really affected idle... i am how ever getting a pretty stable 14ish at idle with 450Usecs of deadtime. i do think global is where i need to manage the WOT pulls because that is where i am leaning out.

my1g- the timing thing has been an epic battle and i have tried glens map and i have tried the evo 8 map... and i have decided i am going to run down to english racing when i gather up 350 for the SD tune

 

[Calan]

I was unaware that dead times only really affected idle.

It's not that they only affect idle; it's just that as the duty cycle increases, the deadtime is a smaller percentage of the overall pulse width... so it has less of an effect.

 

[MY1GDSM]

i was unaware that dead times only really affected idle...

Please take note that I said in comparison

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Please take note that I said in comparison

please note i only said it REALLYeffects idle as in it has less effect at WOT