PTE 50 Trim, overkill?

[guitarXgeek]

I am looking for about 350whp initially and mid-low 12's, on pump 93 gas. I was considering the e3b16g, but I decided that 350whp on pump with that turbo would be pretty tough, and it wouldn't leave me any room to grow in case I wanted more power (which I'm sure I will ). I did some looking around and I found that the PTE SCM5027e has really good reviews and seems like the turbo for me. However, I have a few questions first (please note that I will have all the supporting mods when I decide to buy the turbo ).

First, around what RPM would I most likely see full boost with a .63 a/r and a 69 trim turbine wheel? I will have ported everything out so as to help with spool up, too.

Secondly, I am curious as to whether I should go with an internal or external wastegate? I am thinking external, but on the manifold or the o2 housing? Will this turbo have any problems mating up with an evo3 o2 housing?

Last but not least, is this overkill for my goal? I thought the e3b16g would be perfect, but now I'm doubting as to whether or not it will suit my needs if I want more power. TIA for taking time out to help me!

 

[guitarXgeek]

Also, if I chose to go with the .48 a/r instead of the .63, would that help with spoolup? Would the increased spoolup time really be worth the loss of power? Thanks

 

[zross1]

I would go with a 50 trim. Like you said with the b16G even though it is a good turbo, you'll soon want bigger. You'll want to go with the .63 A/R housing. Yes the .43 will give you quicker spool, but you'll be hating it on top end when you're trying to dip into the 12's. I have the stage 3 turbine wheel and I see full boost at about 4,000 that's ported to the max on 02, turbine housing, exhaust manifold, and 3 in turbo back. But trust me, with the 50 trim, when you finally hit full boost, and it pulls all the way to redline you would be glad you got it. Opposed to a b16g it will start to loose effeciency at high rpm's long before the effecient compressor wheel of a 50 trim will. You said you'll have all the supporting mods and I'm assuming a fmic so you can run 21-22 pounds of boost on pump gas no problem and you would be more then satisfied. Good luck.

 

[bigfoot]

^ What he said. Your going to reach 350 and then you will want 400. It's a curse. Internal gate is fine for this turbo. Adding a 3" exhaust and maybe a MAFT will cut spool time, and adds top end which gives you a much wider powerband than you have now. Don't sweat the higher than stock spool.

 

[guitarXgeek]

Thanks for the advice guys! One more question though A lot of place that sell this turbo also offer to cut the exhaust housing wall right next to the wastegate to help control boost. <-- Is that really necessary?

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

It's not really reccomended, because it creates more turbulence in exhaust flow.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

350 on the evo3 isnt a chore and it will do it without blinking an eye. Any 16g will get you the times you want. Why people are over compensating I dont know..things around here have gotten strange, people recomending ONLY 660cc for a small 16g and saying nothing less then a 50 trim will do. If you look around youll notice we are turning into honda guys, we have to have the biggest when something MUCH smaller will work.

Now if you initially want these times and may want to dip into the tens later on Ill understand getting a big turbo, but if this is your finally goal then a big or evo16g will get you there with room to spare, but it will take some tuning and so on.

Andrew

 

[DSMSpyder99]

350 on the evo3 isnt a chore and it will do it without blinking an eye. Any 16g will get you the times you want. Why people are over compensating I dont know..things around here have gotten strange, people recomending ONLY 660cc for a small 16g and saying nothing less then a 50 trim will do. If you look around youll notice we are turning into honda guys, we have to have the biggest when something MUCH smaller will work.

Now if you initially want these times and may want to dip into the tens later on Ill understand getting a big turbo, but if this is your finally goal then a big or evo16g will get you there with room to spare, but it will take some tuning and so on.

Andrew

of course a b16g/e16g can probably get 350whp with the right mods but he already has 2 major disadvantages 1. the 7-bolt head and intake manifold are hugh restrictions compared to its 6-bolt counterpart. 2. AWD drivetrain loss. The most i have ever seen on a stock 7-bolt 2G AWD was 230awhp on 93 octane. I am sure with a ported intake manifold, 1G head or/and some valvetrain work you can get 250AWHP. On the other hand, if he got a 50-Trim or 20G he can probably accomplish it with less boost ans on stock 7-bolt long block

 

[bigfoot]

and saying nothing less then a 50 trim will do. Andrew

Who said that? Where? If you have a recommendation make it. Some people just love to argue. Heres some advice arguement fans, get married.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

of course a b16g/e16g can probably get 350whp with the right mods but he already has 2 major disadvantages 1. the 7-bolt head and intake manifold are hugh restrictions compared to its 6-bolt counterpart. 2. AWD drivetrain loss. The most i have ever seen on a stock 7-bolt 2G AWD was 230awhp on 93 octane. I am sure with a ported intake manifold, 1G head or/and some valvetrain work you can get 250AWHP. On the other hand, if he got a 50-Trim or 20G he can probably accomplish it with less boost ans on stock 7-bolt long block

the stock manifolds arent going to be a restriction till you are flowing TONS of air more then a 50 trim. Plus the 2g head is setup better then the 1g may not flow as much but if you prt match to a 1g manfold youll flow more with less turbulence. stock 7 bolts have produced alot more then that kind of power. When I plan on going stroker 6 bolt Im going to keep my 2g head and port match to a stock 1g manifold and I bet Imm do as good or better than a magus equiped 1g head.
Andrew

 

[nanokpsi]

the stock manifolds arent going to be a restriction till you are flowing TONS of air more then a 50 trim. Plus the 2g head is setup better then the 1g may not flow as much but if you prt match to a 1g manfold youll flow more with less turbulence. stock 7 bolts have produced alot more then that kind of power. When I plan on going stroker 6 bolt Im going to keep my 2g head and port match to a stock 1g manifold and I bet Imm do as good or better than a magus equiped 1g head.
Andrew

Not true at all. MOst people pick up 2-3 lb/min by switching to a 1g head and mani in the 40lb/min range. Thats just a a 2g with cams at 20 psi. This combo should also run around 350awhp with good timing.

If you think port matching the 2g head to a 1g mani will let you flow as well as a 1g head with a magnus you are mistaken, especially on stroker where the larger plenum on the SMIM seems to make the motor happy. Hoggin out the flange on a 2g head just to match the intake mani is worthless. The head is already off......either have it ported well and portmatched or just swap to a 1g head. I would think the latter if you really want more displacement.

 

[zross1]

350 on the evo3 isnt a chore and it will do it without blinking an eye. Any 16g will get you the times you want. Why people are over compensating I dont know..things around here have gotten strange, people recomending ONLY 660cc for a small 16g and saying nothing less then a 50 trim will do. If you look around youll notice we are turning into honda guys, we have to have the biggest when something MUCH smaller will work.

Now if you initially want these times and may want to dip into the tens later on Ill understand getting a big turbo, but if this is your finally goal then a big or evo16g will get you there with room to spare, but it will take some tuning and so on.

Andrew

You can get 350 hp out of a 16G, but without gutting out his car he isn't going to get into the low 12's with 93 octane pump gas with a 16G.

 

[guitarXgeek]

You can get 350 hp out of a 16G, but without gutting out his car he isn't going to get into the low 12's with 93 octane pump gas with a 16G.

My thoughts exactly. I've heard so many good things about the evo3 16g, but I just don't think it's capable of a reliable 350+whp on 93 octane which is my goal. Even if I COULD reach that, then I doubt I'd be able to push it any farther (which I'm sure I'll want to do ). Thanks guys, I do believe I'll be going with the .63 a/r 50 trim!

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

There no way anyone will ever get 350 whp on 93 octane on a 16g, and if they do, they're on the ragged edge.

Get a 76 trim turbine with a .63 ar. Spool is good, top end is good.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

man the dsm community is hopeless now...I fear that in a year or two that you wont be able to run 15psi on a t25 anymore without 660cc injectors.....goodluck in your choice

 

[zross1]

man the dsm community is hopeless now...I fear that in a year or two that you wont be able to run 15psi on a t25 anymore without 660cc injectors.....goodluck in your choice

WTHF? How did injectors become a part of this discussion? I have a buddy that runs a fp 2544 with stock injectors for over a year in the 12's--more power too him. Know a Honda guy who has a huge p trim turbo that run's high 10's on stock dsm injectors. I never would do this, but people get away with it and I think it's great. So this being said, what does injectors have to do with 16g vs 50 trim? Do you really think you could get a 16G compressor wheel to make 350 whp, or get a full weight car into the low 12's effeciently on pump gas. Probably not. What about a 50 trim? No problem.

 

[Thomas91169]

so youre saying a evo 16g cant do it? many a tuner on here have proven even the stock 14b capible of 12's with maybe 2 grand invested. and a 16g flows far more than a 14b. so what now?

go with the evo 16g. it is perfect for a 350hp goal.

 

[14.5 drift]

drama drama drama drama drama drama


350whp? Not very common. 12's? Easily. The reason why alot of people go bigger is because there is no reason why not to. The stock bottom end is going to be able to take it so why not upgrade once? :shrug: a 450 injector costs nearly the same as a 880 injector go figure......

and as for the turbo's, bolt on 50 trim for 700, or bolt on a 16g for 600. What's the difference your asking? 100 bucks or 100 hp however you wanna look at it is up to you.......

 

[Ed98GST]

First, is your mod list up-to-date? If so, are you planning on adding any supporting mods when you upgrade the turbo, or are you going to wait?

Second, are you dead-set on one of these two turbos? Or, are you willing to consider others that meet your criteria?

 

[guitarXgeek]

Yes, the mod list is up-to-date. No I will not be purchasing the turbo until I have more supporting mods, as I stated above And YES, I am open to any other turbo suggestions, but these two seem like the best from what I've heard/read.

 

[zross1]

so youre saying a evo 16g cant do it? many a tuner on here have proven even the stock 14b capible of 12's with maybe 2 grand invested. and a 16g flows far more than a 14b. so what now?

go with the evo 16g. it is perfect for a 350hp goal.

You need to read what he is wanting to accomplish. He wants 350 whp and low 12 sec on PUMP GAS and FULL WEIGHT. Can you show me a legit time slip or dyno run showing this criteria being made with a 16g on again PUMP GAS and FULL WEIGHT. Just for the record I think the 16G is a very capable turbo for the steet and can do wonders with race gas, but that's not what he is asking. I'm aware that there have been many 14b's and 16g's to get people in the 12's but that's with a gutted car and on race fuel.

 

[Ed98GST]

Sorry...missed that you had addressed supporting mods in your original post!

I was in the same situation -- EvoIII or 50-trim. EvoIII wouldn't going to leave any room down the road, and in my opinion wasn't going to consistently & reliably produce 350whp on a daily driver on pump. The 50-trim is definitely a good turbo, but is bigger than what I want. I found 2 T04B's that looked good for my application, and should have no trouble supporting 350awhp on pump. Good reported spool characteristics, streetability, etc...all the things I was looking for in a daily driver. I'll be ordering mine in a few days. You should check them out -- www.bullseyepower.com -- the v-trim and H3. They aren't as efficient as a 50-trim, but I didn't need/want something that big.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

You guys are all crazy, ive gone 12.42 @ 114mph in my 1g awd with a stock sidemount, and a small 16g, i havnt dynoed because theres no awd dyno's around me, but a 16g is deffinatly capable if you know how to use it, im all about getting the most out of what i have, and btw, e3b16 is 550 shipped, most PTE 50 trims are 850-900 shipped, i dont know where ur finding a mitsu flanged 50 trim for 700. when u do, let me know cuz im in the market

BTW the term " 50 trim " is way over used, in all reality, a 16g is technically a 50 trim..so...how about we not use this worn out cliche anymore ?

 

[nanokpsi]

BTW the term " 50 trim " is way over used, in all reality, a 16g is technically a 50 trim..so...how about we not use this worn out cliche anymore ?

Most people know when "50 tirm" is mentioned that the person is talking about the Garrett T04E 50 trim compressor wheel. I don't think people are going to start typing all of that in the world of ttyl, brb and stfu

 

[pickens]

Pump gas + full weight + 16g = 13 second timeslips all day.

Race gas + full weight + 16g = Solid 12 second timeslips all day.

Race gas + gutted car + 16g = Low 12 and possibly occasional 11 second timeslips.

Race gas +gutted car + 50 trim = too much fun!