Problems with fuel pump, 2g

[MrBeast225]

Alright, so I've searched on here, and found a couple of valuable threads that basically gave me a great place to start, but I still havent been able to crack whats wrong.

Basically, the fuel pump is not priming/getting power. The pump is good, as its brand new (and ive tested it by hooking up 12 v of power to it from the battery, it turned on).

So far, Ive bought a new fuel pump/mfi relay, and checked fuses 1 and 12 in the car on the driver side. Under the hood in the main fuse box it appears that all the fuses are in working order.

As far as the two relays go, only the relay on the left is getting power, the relay on the right is not (tested with a light tester). I've read though that the MFI relay sends power to the fuel pump relay, so I'm not too sure if that has anything to do with it or not... Also since mine is just hanging down, and wasn't bolted in, im not even sure which relay is which @_@.

Ive read a couple times about a few fuses being on the fire wall, with one of them having to do with the firewall, but my car doesn't have it? I'm assuming that was for the GS model only, and not the GST?

The car I have is a 98 Eclipse GST.

Any thoughts on whats wrong?

And just to be sure.... heres a pic of the relays I replaced. There in the middle of the car, behind the stereo, on the passenger side.

Sorry for the lengthy thread, any help anyone could offer me would be great, as I am terribly confused .

Just noticed the pic is upside down.... sorry bout that.

Just noticed that the pic is upside down... Sorry bout that

 

[Total Eclipse]

with our cars, the fuel pump does not prime with the key on. It turns on and runs when the crank sensor sees a reading (when the car turns over). So if your looking for the pump to prime, it won't happen. If it's not starting when you turn it over, and the pump is known to be good (as you said above) the I would just start tracing the wireing back up through the car to see at what point you start getting power. Looks like you are looking in the right direction as far as diagnostics go so far though.

 

[MrBeast225]

Quick question, trying to check wiring and such (the wiring diagrams are a bit confusing for me... ). Is where I plug the fuel pump relay into suppose give power? Or is just the MFI port suppose to give power? My MFI does give power, but my fuel pump relay does not. Should it be like this? In the diagnose a no start article on here http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html , it only talks about testing the MFI relay port for power, but I have a feeling that the MFI and the fuel pump relay ports should both getting power?

 

[808Tiki]

hmm....

 

[MrBeast225]

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Update: for some reason when I apply a ground to the white red wires on the fuel pump relay my fuel pump gets power. Anyone know what this could be? Or how to fix what's going on here?

 

[Cmlteg]

looking at the wiring, ## pump get power from a fuse and its gets its ground by the ecm, with the ign turn on you should see battery voltage at terminal 3 and 4 on your fuel pump relay, ecu completes the circuit providing ground to the relay.

 

[MrBeast225]

looking at the wiring, ## pump get power from a fuse and its gets its ground by the ecm, with the ign turn on you should see battery voltage at terminal 3 and 4 on your fuel pump relay, ecu completes the circuit providing ground to the relay.

So are you saying that my ECU is bad?

 

[Tyeler18]

Hm... we don't have immobilizers in DSMs, so I'm going to agree with ^^ and say that if you're not getting a ground on that, your ecu is the culprit. Or the wiring between the relay and the ecu has a break in it.

 

[MrBeast225]

Hmm... Ok, what about the relay next to the fuel pump relay (mfi), should any of those ports be getting power?

 

[MrBeast225]

I just don't want to go out, buy a new computer, and find out that it's not the problem. As I tried plugging in my friends old dsm link computer, and still had the same problem. I suppose they could both be bad though?

 

[Tyeler18]

Doubt they're both bad. Have you looked at the wire to make sure it's not broken anywhere.

Also, are you turning the key to "start" when testing this.

 

[MrBeast225]

There's no broken wire. About testing it though, I'm trying both when the car is just on, and when turning it over. The fuel pump does nothing either way.

Also, is there suppose to be voltage to the MPI relay? I'm not getting any when the car is on, or when trying to turn it over.

 

[miguelmcv]

Wait a minute, you will not see ground on the fuel pump relay, which the ECU sends ground to the relay only when the ecu detects cranking signal, so saying that, when you test the ground, it should be while cranking the engine, other wise you will not see ground,...

Add ground to the relay and see if the pump works, if it does, then crank the engine and see if there is ground while cranking, if there is no ground, then you could have a bad crank sensor.

The ECU is very or better say, extremely rare to cause just that problem, if the ecu doesn't send signal to the fuel pump is because it doesn't detect cranking signal.

Do a test the way I stated and report back the result and we go from there.

I reread the entire thread and was wondering, what's the story on your car?.
Can you give as some information on it, did you just bought, it died on you, it haven't run for long time?.

There is a plug in front of the car (engine bay), right behind the battery, it is black, that's your pump test connector, add + from the battery and crank the car to see if it runs, If you have just a bad connection or a bad wire from the fuel pump relay, your car should run with the pump on like that, if it doesn't run, then you might have a bad crank signal.

Do you have spark?, Just give us more details to be able to help out, It is kind of guessing with out much information.

Here is a pic of the black connector you will be looking for.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/454871-97-fuel-pump-activation-connector.html

 

[MrBeast225]

Wait a minute, you will not see ground on the fuel pump relay, which the ECU sends ground to the relay only when the ecu detects cranking signal, so saying that, when you test the ground, it should be while cranking the engine, other wise you will not see ground,...

Add ground to the relay and see if the pump works, if it does, then crank the engine and see if there is ground while cranking, if there is no ground, then you could have a bad crank sensor.

The ECU is very or better say, extremely rare to cause just that problem, if the ecu doesn't send signal to the fuel pump is because it doesn't detect cranking signal.

Do a test the way I stated and report back the result and we go from there.

I reread the entire thread and was wondering, what's the story on your car?.
Can you give as some information on it, did you just bought, it died on you, it haven't run for long time?.

There is a plug in front of the car (engine bay), right behind the battery, it is black, that's your pump test connector, add + from the battery and crank the car to see if it runs, If you have just a bad connection or a bad wire from the fuel pump relay, your car should run with the pump on like that, if it doesn't run, then you might have a bad crank signal.

Do you have spark?, Just give us more details to be able to help out, It is kind of guessing with out much information.

Here is a pic of the black connector you will be looking for.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/454871-97-fuel-pump-activation-connector.html

Thanks u for that information. My engine blew and I decided to rebuild the car. I've redone the Engine from the block up. I have new CAS & CPS. About a week ago I got everything hooked up and ready to go. I attempt to start the car and it would turn over but now start. So my first step was to check if it was getting fuel. I disconnected the fuel line on the passenger side and had my friend crank the engine while i looked for fuel. There was none. So I went to the next step of checking my fuel pump. I bought a new 255 fuel pump for installation and it works fine. But the pump is not turning on so i decided to check the MPI/ Fuel pump relay. I didn't know how at the time to properly check it, so I just bought a new one. Still no results.

So my first step is trying to get my fuel pump to work.

 

[miguelmcv]

OK I see, That give us way more to think and guide you better.

Add positive to the plug that I stated before (fuel pump test connector) and see if it works, If it works, check for spark and Compression, if you have spark and compression, Just leave the fuel pump ON and crank the engine to see if it runs, If your problem is just the fuel pump not turning ON, doing this the car should run.

Let us know what happens, and we go from there...

 

[MrBeast225]

So I ran a 12v to the test connector and the fuel pump turns on.

OK I see, That give us way more to think and guide you better.

Add positive to the plug that I stated before (fuel pump test connector) and see if it works, If it works, check for spark and Compression, if you have spark and compression, Just leave the fuel pump ON and crank the engine to see if it runs, If your problem is just the fuel pump not turning ON, doing this the car should run.

Let us know what happens, and we go from there...

Okay, so I tested for spark and my plugs are not getting any. What would u suggest next?

 

[miguelmcv]

Crank sensor is the one that sends the signal, But you have stated that your sensor is new.

A lot of us have report to have the crank and AC plugs swapped, Verify you didn't do the same thing, make sure you have the right connector plugged to the crank sensor, both connectors (AC and Crank) are in the same location and can reach each other so are very easy to swap them with out knowing.

 

[MrBeast225]

Alright, so both sensors are for sure in place, the colors of the wires match, and there's no way my crank sensor could even reach my AC sensor .

 

[miguelmcv]

HHHmmmm, Check if you have #4 fuse blown on the fuse box, It's a 20amp fuse and it stands as engine something, I can't remember, But is one side of the hazard fuse (engine bay), don't just test it and or look at it, but remove it and put it back on, some times they looks good and once you take it out, they come apart, If the fuse is good, then you have to test the crank sensor to see if it is good.

 

[MrBeast225]

Ok do the fuse is good, I had sent down to the local checkers to buy new sparkplug wires to see of that could be the culprit... It was a no go . The crank sensor is brand new, along with the cas, but I'll check either way... Back in a bit.

 

[MrBeast225]

On second thought, how would I check to make sure the cps was working? I thought it was in the how to diagnose a no start section, but I was mistaken

 

[miguelmcv]

Here is a good one (post#3).
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/98536-crank-cam-angle-sensor-testing.html

Was curious, did you put back the plate at the crank shaft?, the plate that inserts to the cps, if the plate is not there, it will cause your problem (no crank signal).

 

[MrBeast225]

Ok so this is going to sound really noob of me, but I'm not sure how to use a multimeter on a car. To test the battery I know I put the pos on pos, and neg on neg. How do I do it for a sensor though? To me it seems like I would put the red from the multimeter on the third pin in the socket for the cas (with the harness disconnected from it), and the black I would maybe still leave on the negative terminal for the battery? I'm not even sure how the cas would get power of I disconnect the harness? Any help would be great

 

[MrBeast225]

Also, the cps has the plate.

 

[miguelmcv]

Ok so this is going to sound really noob of me, but I'm not sure how to use a multimeter on a car. To test the battery I know I put the pos on pos, and neg on neg. How do I do it for a sensor though? To me it seems like I would put the red from the multimeter on the third pin in the socket for the cas (with the harness disconnected from it), and the black I would maybe still leave on the negative terminal for the battery? I'm not even sure how the cas would get power of I disconnect the harness? Any help would be great

Well, disconnect the sensor and check on the harness plug if there is power, Turn the ignition to the ON position and check the red and black wire, see if you get 12volts, if you get 12v, then test the cps, to test the cps you need to crank the engine, while cranking the engine, test the third wire coming from the cps and see what you get.

Note, if you don't get 12volts at the plug (car waring harness side), then don't bother testing the cps.

Tell us what you find.