Spyder Possible alternator problem

[rolltidero]

So I know this is another thread about alternators and I know this topic has been beat to hell but I can't find any circumstances like mine. So over a weekend I got red LEDs to put in my interior for gauges and hvac. I installed them and they lit up fine my doors were open for hours with the interior lights on. I figured my battery would be low so I took it out for a drive about 10 minutes went by and my brake and battery lights came on. My alternator died on my while drivig before so I immediately went home. When I got home I immediately started researching what could cause this. I tested my battery and it read 4 volts so I charged it overnight and the next morning it had 14. Put it back in and again about 10 minutes of driving and the lights were on again. Everything pointed to my alternator but both my alternator and battery are about 15 months old. Upon further inspection of my car I noticed my negative battery terminal was a bit loose and the top plug on my ecu was a little loose from where I took my hvac out, I fixed both of those charged my battery and still dummy lights. I've read before that LEDs can cause a battery to drain but I'm not sure. I know alternators are known to randomly go but I just want to be 100% sure.

 

[DSM1G90]

Not uncommon for ALTS to die prematurely.

Weak batteries,or even loose connections (which needs to be metal bright and rock tight on the battery-in fact, all electrical connections needs to be rock tight) will take ALTS out in a heartbeat.

Put a VOM across the battery, or touch red to the battery lug behind the ALT with black on ground, with motor idling and check voltage from the ALT. If you're below 13.8VDC, or around 11VDC, the ALT took a dump and needs to be replaced.

 

[1990dsmkid]

Use a multimeter while car is running to see what voltage your battery is at. Will tell you if its charging or not. Need to have a little over 13 volts while car is running

 

[rough]

Just sounds like your battery has reached it's end of life!

Simplest way to test the alternator...

Start the car... Disconnect the hot lead on the battery.

If it dies your alternator is done.

If it stays running indefinitely your battery is toast.

If it only stays running a short while 10-30 seconds after disconnecting the battery, both battery and alt need to be replaced.

Car should idle on a full battery for a good amount of time before it dies.

 

[awesome]

I think it could be the connections to the battery. Have u clean them and are they rusted out?

 

[cdvip]

Sounds like your alternator went out. But you won't know for sure untill you test what's the output to the battery. Just line any electronic part. Doesn't matter it could be brand new and go out that day or last forever. Reman or oem it's the same. All electrical parts are unpredictable.

 

[rolltidero]

So I did the voltage test before start battery read 12.4 volts after start dropped to 11.2, so alternator is definitely dead. I've been reading about alternator upgrades such as saturn alt and galant alt but I also read something about the 2.4L spyders A/T having 90 amp alts. Are these alts a direct bolt on for GST?

 

[dizily555]

Another option is to get the car to your local auto parts store "preferably Oreillys as I work there" and they will be able to test the alt and battery in the car while its running.

 

[mustracetsi]

Check your alt fuse, anytime working on electrical stuff is best have battery disconnect as even little mistake can take out a fuse or worse.. if fuse is good and your terminal wires and alt wires are nice and tight and still getting that battery light change alt. With all threads on these alts it's a 50 50 chance that you will get a good alt from parts store. I the one I got goes I going to do the saturn one that most dsmers seem to be doing.

 

[DSM1G90]

Start the car... Disconnect the hot lead on the battery.

If you like replacing alternators like changing socks, keep doing this practice, for this blows regulators real quick.

NEVER DO THIS PRACTICE ... NEVER !!

Don't know where this shithead practice began, but PLEASE never begin, or continuing doing this all but stupid practice !

Do the multimeter practice to check electrical systems.

-DSM

 

[rolltidero]

If you like replacing alternators like changing socks, keep doing this practice, for this blows regulators real quick.

NEVER DO THIS PRACTICE ... NEVER !!

Don't know where this sh**head practice began, but PLEASE never begin, or continuing doing this all but stupid practice !

Do the multimeter practice to check electrical systems.

-DSM

Don't worry I did read enough to know not to do that. I did the multimeter test and determined it is dead. Does anyone have any info about the 2.4P spyder alts if they're a bolt on for a GST?

 

[rough]

If you like replacing alternators like changing socks, keep doing this practice, for this blows regulators real quick.

NEVER DO THIS PRACTICE ... NEVER !!

Don't know where this sh**head practice began, but PLEASE never begin, or continuing doing this all but stupid practice !

Do the multimeter practice to check electrical systems.

-DSM

While a regulator takes the Alt's Converted AC to DC current and regulates the DC"s flow to a set voltage..
It will not affect the life of the regulator. A voltage regulators sole JOB is to handle Sags and Spikes to output a constant DC current, so removing the battery will not affect this in any way shape or form.
Voltage regulators in Alternators can be replaced, for cheap, no reason to replace the whole unit. The regulator is right behind the ALT's cooling fins.


If the alternator is not putting out a Minimum of 12.6 volts then your battery is not getting charged, so according to what your saying, if you are not charging right, your going to be popping "voltage regulators" Alternators non stop which is just not true man.

ALSO if OP has the 420a the Voltage Regulator is not even in the alternator, it's in the ECU.


This "shit head" practice you so call it, has been used since at least 1953 which is when 12v was introduced.
I will continue to use my "shit head practice" as I've never had any ill effects caused from it.


In the time it takes you to fetch your multi meter, I can tell if you if your battery or alternator is dead.

Don't worry I did read enough to know not to do that. I did the multimeter test and determined it is dead. Does anyone have any info about the 2.4P spyder alts if they're a bolt on for a GST?

So you "read enough" to know not to do this..... but have not read enough to know to do a simple search for a 4g64 alternator swap... ?

how about vfaq.com ?

Good luck with your car.

 

[NHerron]

First off, alternators should not be relied upon to charge a dead battery, only to top off and be the primary power provider for electrical demands so the battery isn't taxed.

Second, dsm1g90 is right. This practice has been obsolete for a long long time. However it's not for the regulators sake, that usually has a built in safety feature, it will default to a preset output.

In the case it doesn't which is possible, and the regulator spikes to say 18v, say bye bye to various modules, some modules don't have idiot protection.

Do your research before saying I've done it for xx time and xx many times.

 

[shakeandbake]

I had the same thing happen to me this morning on the way to work. I idled at 2k out of nowhere and my radio cut off and on. Turns out the end ring terminal to the alternator had heavy corrosion and the wiring end was trashed. Replaced the terminal and boom. Before shelling 100+ for a part check all your connections with a fine comb. If there's any doubts about a connector just replace it.

 

[1990dsmkid]

Taking off the battery terminal while car is running can cause the ground track in the ecu to blow. This is way it shouldnt be done.

 

[rolltidero]

If I were to upgrade to a galant or 4g64 alternator would I need a bigger fuse?

 

[rough]

First off, alternators should not be relied upon to charge a dead battery, only to top off and be the primary power provider for electrical demands so the battery isn't taxed.

Second, dsm1g90 is right. This practice has been obsolete for a long long time. However it's not for the regulators sake, that usually has a built in safety feature, it will default to a preset output.

In the case it doesn't which is possible, and the regulator spikes to say 18v, say bye bye to various modules, some modules don't have idiot protection.

Do your research before saying I've done it for xx time and xx many times.

Please don't be a hypocrite. Please do your own research as well. Google helps dude. First off who said anything about charging a dead battery with your alternator?

Second how is he right? I don't know about you... but I change my socks daily, sometimes twice a day. If you don't you're freaking disgusting, and probably single.

I'd be more then happy to demonstrate this on a video/youtube for you that he is wrong.

He said "Keep doing this practice"... I was comparing years of doing this very practice to many makes and models with no ill affects ever coming from it... Fair Comparison? I think so.

Logically...

IF THIS WAS POSSIBLE PEOPLE WOULD DO IT NON STOP TO BRAND NEW CARS FOR INSURANCE!! Think about it!

Don't like your new car? F it! I'm just going to disconnect the battery and fry everything.. blame the manufacturer for it!! How could they prove you did it and it wasn't a flaw?? You don't think this was thought of and have nothing in place to prevent this from happening? Cmon man...

Please show me proof of what I exactly said is wrong. "disconnect the hot lead" Did I say reconnect it? This is where you would get a spike from. But guess what... The alternator is still there with it's voltage regulator regulating. The ECU is still grounded at the battery and chassis, not sure where the other guy's comment about blowing a ground track comes into play... Not only is it electricity getting filtered at the source "alternator", but it's also filtered again inside the ECU with resistors to get the current's stats just right.


Again I"d be more then happy to make a video of me disconnecting my hot terminal, let it run for a while, turn it off and restart it with no CEL or issues, even crack open the ecu and look for a burnt ground ! There is nothing out there but apples vs oranges on this topic,


Here is some battery tech. While a battery is discharging a cell it can't be recharging the same cell, as charging and discharging are chemical reactions. Yes there is more then one cell in an automotive battery, but there is no brain to control this flow. They are all tied together, so independent cell charging is not possible on our cars. The newer cars out that are Hybrids or All Electric have brains that control the flow of electricity to cells that are not in use. SO again how would the alternator be charging the battery if it's discharging on a 1990's OBDI/II car? It doesn't.. the alternator provides complete power to the car, charges the battery after it starts, and only when the draw exceeds current output of the alternator will it draw from the battery as a secondary source.

Prove me wrong, I'll walk to walk like I talk the talk if you can back your mouth up. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong when it's proven.


This myth came from generators being replaced by alternators.[DOUBLEPOST=1415995912][/DOUBLEPOST]

If I were to upgrade to a galant or 4g64 alternator would I need a bigger fuse?

Yes, The numbers you see on fuses is the amp's they are rated for. If you push 90 amps through a 75 amp fuse.. it pops.

 

[jim95redgsx]

Why you shouldn't disconnect the battery while the alternator is charging: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump

 

[rough]

Not bad for a wiki article but it only applies if the battery is charging as the wiki article states. So as long as the battery is not charging there is no load dump to cause damage. Thank you for posting that.

 

[jim95redgsx]

Not bad for a wiki article but it only applies if the battery is charging as the wiki article states. So as long as the battery is not charging there is no load dump to cause damage. Thank you for posting that.

The alternator should be charging the battery whenever the engine is running. Of course. if the alternator is dead, there will be no load dump. The thing is that you don't know if the alternator is charging or not. Disconnecting the battery terminal as a test will risk a load dump if the alternator is charging at the time. Much better to use a voltmeter to test with.
Jim

 

[mercaholik]

And you are gonna want to have a bolt meter and learn to use it. Oh and I believe disconnecting the battery terminal when engine is running "full fielding" the alternator. I'm gonna look thru my papers to get a better answer.

 

[NHerron]

I'm not going to sit here and battle this stupid shit out like you would like me to, because a, this is auto101, b you're rude and disrespectful and frankly I have a job which I care far more about. So good luck.

 

[DSM1G90]

Nobody mentions that the battery is what runs our system and the alternator's output rectifier is like the "ballast" (power supply) to the system.

You disconnect that positive lead from the battery and the "ballast", being the alternator's internal rectifier (which that large wire bolted to the back of the alternator is the output of the rectifier and the regulator gets the feed from that output rectifier so the regulator can supply the 13.8VDC to the rotor ) takes quite a hit since the load of the system is now totally dependent on that internal rectifier and is not built to operate alone - why alternators are really not designed to charge weak or dead batteries.

Got a weak battery? put the charger on it (I take mine out of the car completely so it's isolated from the vehicle in case of any drain) for at least 12 hrs. If it keeps going weak and you know you got a good alternator, get a new battery pronto.

 

[rolltidero]

Nobody mentions that the battery is what runs our system and the alternator's output rectifier is like the "ballast" (power supply) to the system.

You disconnect that positive lead from the battery and the "ballast", being the alternator's internal rectifier (which that large wire bolted to the back of the alternator is the output of the rectifier and the regulator gets the feed from that output rectifier so the regulator can supply the 13.8VDC to the rotor ) takes quite a hit since the load of the system is now totally dependent on that internal rectifier and is not built to operate alone - why alternators are really not designed to charge weak or dead batteries.

Got a weak battery? put the charger on it (I take mine out of the car completely so it's isolated from the vehicle in case of any drain) for at least 12 hrs. If it keeps going weak and you know you got a good alternator, get a new battery pronto.

I did charge the battery overnight and it was at around 14 volts when I put it back in the car. I put it in then left for 8-10 hours. When I came home it was at around 12-14 volts, I can't remember exactly I just know that it wasn't below the 12v that it was supposed to be. I started the car and it started and idled fine for a few minutes but when I tried to drive it the dummy lights were on by the end of the street. I recently did the superbright led swap in my cluster and hvac, could that have something to do with the lights it's throwing up?

 

[DSM1G90]

Alternator could be kaput .. tested it out any? Or, that light mod is just too much for the system. The power supply(ies) that runs LEDs can be a power hog.