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Portfueler stage V and the pending dyno visit

Posted by bmxunderground, Feb 21, 2010

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  1. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
    3
    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    Before I head to the dyno, I want to make sure I have everything I need to benchmark 400hp. I just updated my profile to include any and all changes made within the last month.

    Read my mod list then follow me here. What other monitoring/data log equipment can I use to help me while road tuning? I'd like to monitor for anomalies that I can work out myself if possible. I know the portfueler is not perfect.

    I know some may say "Get MSnS PnP" but I'd like to explore what I've got here first.

    So if I may, I'd like to open up this discussion for answers to my first question, and also take tips on things I have forgotten. Various points of interest may include: Fuel type, water/meth injection, timing, FCD or not, larger intercooler? or generally any anti-knock/detonation methods I can employ. I'm not opposed to picking up anything that can help me get the 400hp mark.

    help me be prepared! This thread ends with my new rides first dyno sheet.

    (note: current intercooler is 26x8x2.5 I have available to me a Spearco 30x10x3 as well)

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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  2. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola Moderator

    4,908
    130
    Joined Jun 14, 2005
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    You should need only the ML or the FCD, but sometimes the ML's fail.

    Obviously, higher octane fuel is better. E85 is good too, if it's available, but you'll have to modify your fuel system a little. Water or alcohol injection will both help suppress knock. So will lower intake charge temperatures, but a larger IC will only help you achieve lower temperatures up to a point.

    For detecting knock, you can use the stock stuff if it's still there (i.e. PCM and knock sensor). Just use a datalogger to read the values... otherwise you'll need an aftermarket setup and those are pricey for a standalone solution.
     

    2K  21

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  3. Dark DSM

    Dark DSM Supporting Member

    147
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    Joined Nov 3, 2003
    Roseville, Michigan
    well if its any help, i was able to hit approx 27psi, on the stage 5 cal., using 93 octane. 2 step colder plugs, and my a/f stayed around 10.4 ish, (kinda hard to remember) but i would say off the top of my head that was a little over the 400 mark, at least it would be a good estimate.
     

    975  8

    1998 Eagle Talon N/T
    11.234 @ 100.000 · 2G DSM
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  4. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
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    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    Paul: I just don't want to make a noob mistake like "bigger is better!", I want to get everything sized for my application. I don't have the tools as of now to calculate thermal efficiency, or pressure loss but I was wondering. Can I use the PCM's AIT sensor reading to calculate changes based on ambient air temps?

    Dark_kid: Do you still have any of your graphs? or any of the info logged? I was wondering what your knock values were from the PCM during that pull. Also, did your MSD pull any time? or if you can elaborate on any of your pull details I would appreciate it!

    I'm trying to scour the internet for any formulas and as much relevant information as I can.
     
  5. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola Moderator

    4,908
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    Joined Jun 14, 2005
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    The IAT sensor will tell you roughly the temperature of the intake charge. Its accuracy is somewhat compromised by the fact that its mounted in a metal manifold bolted to the cylinder head.

    I would just do a little empirical experimentation while monitoring the IAT's. Keep track of what yields lower temperatures and what doesn't. As for the IC, I'd get the biggest that will physically fit and that you can afford. After that, start looking into other methods for reducing IAT's, like manifold spacers, water injection, insulation, etc.
     

    2K  21

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  6. Dark DSM

    Dark DSM Supporting Member

    147
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    Joined Nov 3, 2003
    Roseville, Michigan

    I wish i did, I never had it on a dyno, most of my pulls were in a isolated parking lot, or the occasional lone road, my case involved alot of trial and error. But my estimation of HP on my car, was averaged up by using an excel spreadsheet by a guy on this very site, but i believe he was basing his findings using the GT30R, and i was comparing other hp ratings vs. mods that are done. But being that i killed my motor, im waiting on the body to be finished so i can build the motor and drop it in right away. Except this time ill be tracking everything. But my experience using PF with stg5 cal, under full boost the a/f ratio kept around 10.4, and i didnt have my DIS2 installed yet, but i was using2 step colder plugs.
     

    975  8

    1998 Eagle Talon N/T
    11.234 @ 100.000 · 2G DSM
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  7. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
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    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    Paul: I can afford to get any part I need. Some of the guys around think I'm kinda crazy for putting so much money in my 420a's but hey love clouds judgment ya know! the SPEARCO intercooler I have seems plenty large enough its 30x10x3.

    since thats just my guess I'm trying to rig some sensors up to my IC inlet and outlet to do a little real time experimenting.

    wish I had a digital way to log everything on a chart. If you have links to some good equipment please post away!


    Dark_Kid: Did the demise of your engine have anything to do with your setup? I'm assuming detonation killed it? fill me in.
     
  8. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola Moderator

    4,908
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    Joined Jun 14, 2005
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    Any real datalogger should do what you want, just put MAP and IAT sensors before and after the IC to calculate efficiency.
     

    2K  21

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  9. Dark DSM

    Dark DSM Supporting Member

    147
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    Joined Nov 3, 2003
    Roseville, Michigan
    The first time i killed it, was bc i didnt know anything, literally! i didnt know about break-in additives, and nore did i break in the motor the right way, and on the second time i was trying to figure out my fuel system but that wasnt what did it iin. I reused a part i shouldnt have, more or less bad advice. But like i said i was stupid for doing so. Being now i have all my ducks in a row, this is the last time, i will do this. But no my setup was no reason for its fall.
     

    975  8

    1998 Eagle Talon N/T
    11.234 @ 100.000 · 2G DSM
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  10. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
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    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    Paul: looking for some parts today, I'll post back soon

    Dark_Kid: what part did you reuse to compromise your engine? HG?
     
  11. Dark DSM

    Dark DSM Supporting Member

    147
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    Joined Nov 3, 2003
    Roseville, Michigan
    i reused the piston rings, bc of the realtivly low miles i had on them, (1000 miles) but it was more or less bad advice saying i could reuse them. But now i know a few things, believe me ill never make that mistake again. Never had a problem with the head gasket.

    But i got done tearing the rest of my block down today so i can put it in the shop. And that was another thing, the other machine shop i used never balanced my rotating assembly, so yeh. In the long run, it tore its self apart, but when it was on its way out the second time, it was vibrating real bad, and had very little seal on 1&4 (piston rings) and was piston slapping, but under boost was perfectly fine. So here we sit now, waiting for it to get cut n dressed.
     

    975  8

    1998 Eagle Talon N/T
    11.234 @ 100.000 · 2G DSM
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  12. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
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    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    correct me if i'm wrong, but I was under the impression that very rarely do we have balance issues with the OEM parts. I have heard speculation regarding vibration after swaping to the aluminum harmonic balancing pulley but thats it.

    enlighten me if you have more info.

    In the mean time I'm working on getting these sensors wired in :)
     
  13. Dark DSM

    Dark DSM Supporting Member

    147
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    Joined Nov 3, 2003
    Roseville, Michigan
    I had to have the crank machined, and i have a belief that they did not compensate for the metal removed, i dont have very high remarks for this place anymore, they have failed more than one time apparently. Either way whats done is done. I have a new place im using, and i have more faith this time around. So in a couple months we'll see how she turns out.
     

    975  8

    1998 Eagle Talon N/T
    11.234 @ 100.000 · 2G DSM
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  14. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
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    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    March 6, 2010: and the dyno visit will have to wait. As of today, complete loss of oil pressure. Another DSMer finds his way home via rollback :cry:

    IMG_0399.jpg
     
  15. bullettdsm

    bullettdsm N/T DSM Wiseman

    2,408
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    Joined Dec 17, 2004
    East Hampton, Connecticut
    Glass half full;

    At least it happened before you strapped up to the dyno.

    And, at least she looks good, even while on the trailer ;)

    MB
     
  16. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
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    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    March 7, 2010: And we're back! oil pressure problem fixed. Now time to repair a transmission seal where the axle meets that I found while under there. Anyone know what they are called exactly so I can order them Monday?
     
  17. dsm8883

    dsm8883 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 19, 2004
    gainsville, Florida
    Are talking about axle seals? They are called axle seals....
     
  18. asg1089

    asg1089 Proven Member

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    Joined Mar 26, 2008
    Boca Raton, Florida
    what caused your oil pressure loss? out of curiosity since everything on your car looks ship shape, i'm wondering what messed up. but hey we are dealing with dsm's here ;-)
     

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    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    13.400 @ 108.000 · 2G DSM
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  19. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
    3
    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    there was a small gap between the oil pickup and the block. I cleaned it up, put a new seal and torqued it down well. Oil pressure restored. Spending the day tomorrow (today?) getting things ironed out to get back on track for a dyno visit.
     
  20. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
    3
    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    March 14, 2010: No time to finish the new monitoring systems. Did find a problem with the ignition. During pulls the car would begin to bog in the same manner as a multiple cylinder misfire. pulled all the plugs replaced them. Checked spark in the dark last night to find that the rear of the coil was cracked on my MSD coilpack and spark was actually traveling from the pack to the valve cover instead of to the sparkplug. Replaced the coil with another MSD that appeared to be starting to crack too. It didn't spark to the valve cover at idle but then under load it would.

    Combined with that problem I believe the signal from the cam angle sensor has become intermittent. Pedal to the floor wouldn't break past 4500 rpms at times.

    Going to purchase all new components this week and see If I can iron out everything be next Wednesday for a good clean pull.
     
  21. LD25Delta9

    LD25Delta9 Proven Member

    606
    13
    Joined Feb 12, 2008
    Ft. Wayne, Indiana
    Get Granatelli's from MPX. They are the best wire available at a cheaper price than most other aftermarkets. They also make a coil pack for our car.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010

    862  0

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  22. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
    3
    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    April 4, 2010: Still being plagued with ignition issues on hard pulls. Car boggs at 4k rpm or past and will not exceed 5k. Throwing a TPS code, replaced sensor, same issues persisting. I need more time to deal with this. :toobad:
     
  23. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
    3
    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    May 23, 2010: Replaced all ignition components, no misfires. Last night took the car out to tune the fuel maps for the portfueler and shes ready to go!!

    The maps are perfect as of now. 15psi pulls only until meth injection kit is installed and functioning. AFRs reading in the 12's. EGT's under 1200.

    Gonna get to the dyno and really see all the other variables and report back. looking to max out the portfuelers capabilities then.

    keep an eye out, i'll have videos up soon.
     
  24. bmxunderground

    bmxunderground Proven Member

    213
    3
    Joined Dec 11, 2007
    Bowling Green, Kentucky
    Jan 11, 2011: A lot has happened to keep me from ever seeing the dyno last year. Well, 2011 is a new year and times come to make good on this post. As of today I'll have finished tearing down, cleaning up and rebuilding my engine.

    After months of problems I was finally able to identify a problem that kept me from really feeling any real power. Apparently I was the last person on this board to realize that OBX adjustable cam gears were timing marked very inconsistently.

    I was a tooth off on the intake cam and a tooth off on the crank. Who knows how this car ran so well for the last year.

    At any rate, I've documented every step of the way, and as soon as I get the shop cleaned up, I'll be taking her out for a test drive to see whats really cookin under the hood after $8000 spent in the last year.

    expect video and a barrage of pictures.

    Thanks for looking!
     
  25. DSMReviver

    DSMReviver Proven Member

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    Joined Mar 4, 2008
    Little Rock, Arkansas
    good looking 2g :thumb: at least its looking like its going fast :hellyeah:
     
    DSMReviver

    1K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM

    Showcar Build 1K  0

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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