Please help with Cyclone

[Groomz]

Originally posted by Velo7825
I'm not sure if i read your post wrong, but your saying that either way you do it rpm doesn't effect the butterflies in the intake?

What I was saying is that nothing else matters except rpm when you are talking about dual runner intakes. We aren't designing the intake its already made and we know it flows "almost as much as a 1g intake manifold". The only thing we need to do is find out how to make it work with our cars and "tune it".

So we need to find out where in our torque curve we would most benefit from the switching from (small port area long runners) to (large port area short runners). Which all has to do with port velocity and piston speed. correct?

Don't be confused by the runner design. When it switches the butterflies, the manifold is now completely open. Both long and short runners are in use. Off boost you will not need the SHORT runners. Also the butterflies to not fly open, so between shifts it will remain open if you are under boost, so they won't be closed when you hit that next gear.

The Cyclone is not designed to switch over at the torque peak, but rather to be used at low boost or low RPM driving. You would need to hit a dyno and actually see where the torque peak occurs and have an RPM switch at that point to have the butterflies switch over. Again the Cyclone is not designed to aid in peak torque, but overall torque. Usable torque below 3000rpm's ( or off boost above that ).

( Edit: Short runners not needed at low boost. Just a little typo. )

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by RuBiCaNT5X
I'll be the first to admit I am no expert in air velocity vs port size dynamics. My point is that 8psi seems to be a good spot for both sets of runners to open up from what I have read from people's experience. I guess I will find out.

With a larger turbo, this will not be a problem either because it will not see 8psi by 3000rpm's. The Cyclone was designed for the JDM 14b which can easily see 5 or 8psi by 3000rpm's. But what good is it to open when its only 2700rpms and its at 8psi already? For you fast spooling turbo guys, you'll want the manifold to stay with the long runners until at least 3000rpm's, and that's where the whole setup gets power at ( 3000rpm's ). Below that, there is no chance of them opening and there is no need for them to open. Only the T25 guys torque peak below 3000rpm's ( ).

Think of my setup like a dual window switch. First you need power, which you get at 3000rpm's. Then you'll need 5psi of boost ( you can BTW buy the Hobbs switch set at 10psi ) to have the valves open. Not at 3000rpm's yet? Haven't hit 5psi yet? Don't worry, there closed until there needed.

Phew, thats alot of typing. I'm going to take a nap.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by Groomz
Don't be confused by the runner design. When it switches the butterflies, the manifold is now completely open. Both long and short runners are in use. Off boost you will not need the short runners. Also the butterflies to not fly open, so between shifts it will remain open if you are under boost, so they won't be closed when you hit that next gear.

The Cyclone is not designed to switch over at the torque peak, but rather to be used at low boost or low RPM driving. You would need to hit a dyno and actually see where the torque peak occurs and have an RPM switch at that point to have the butterflies switch over. Again the Cyclone is not designed to aid in peak torque, but overall torque. Usable torque below 3000rpm's ( or off boost above that ).

I agree 100%..

Velo7825 - Essentially the same thing I said, whter you are cruising at 3000 in 5th going 80 (OD for me because of the AT), your boost is going to be at 0 or even vac. You aren't going to need that much air flow. However, say you need to pass some jackoff going to soom you add just a hint of throttle and you can hit 8psi like it's going out of style and have both runners open in a pinch. See why I was trying to say it's RPM indifferent.. With a larger turbo, that might be a different story, but I get 15psi @ 3100 on my S16G so 8psi is easy to make...

 

[Auladan]

At first my intake manifold seemed to be one solid piece, but closer inspection showed me it's not. And on the top is written ECI MULTI Turbo Intercooler (Intercooled? Can't remember and it's cold outside). So I believe that I have a Cyclone intake.

Right now, I'm seeing this as a problem because I'm not well versed at tuning, and this is my very first engine swap.

As of now I've wacked all the emissions stuff to get the vacuum working (hypothetically, the car isn't running yet), and I had to swap out throttle bodies in favor of my 90' unit to get all the electrical compatible.

Could you please PM me with pictures of the things I'll need to buy to build this setup you're talking about? I would really appreciate it, and I'd definately love to learn to get the most out of my new engine.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by Auladan
At first my intake manifold seemed to be one solid piece, but closer inspection showed me it's not. And on the top is written ECI MULTI Turbo Intercooler (Intercooled? Can't remember and it's cold outside). So I believe that I have a Cyclone intake.

Right now, I'm seeing this as a problem because I'm not well versed at tuning, and this is my very first engine swap.

As of now I've wacked all the emissions stuff to get the vacuum working (hypothetically, the car isn't running yet), and I had to swap out throttle bodies in favor of my 90' unit to get all the electrical compatible.

Could you please PM me with pictures of the things I'll need to buy to build this setup you're talking about? I would really appreciate it, and I'd definately love to learn to get the most out of my new engine.

To know if you have a cyclone or not, look for the butterfly actuator on the right side of the intake. It should look similar to the one on your turbo and be green in color. Another think to look for is that the manifold has NO EGR on it. Here is a picture of mine..

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Another pic not painted...

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[Auladan]

The second picture is exactly what mine looks like, however that actuator (is that what it is?) on the right isde is the same color as the manifold (gray). Mine is definately Cyclone.

Here is how I have my vacuum setup for now. How should I alter it to get the cyclone running effeciently (without hooking back up all the emissions)?

I have hosed this way because I lost my BCS, so I ran a straight line from the wastegate actuator to the turbo outlet pipe, but if I need it in order to use the Cyclone, I can probably find one at a local junkyard.

 

[Groomz]

Here's the actual pic of the setup. Shoot me a PM if you want the diagram I drew up ( its really big, even as a JPEG, so I have to mail it to you ). Just include your e-mail address.

 

[Groomz]

For the switch, its made by Hobbs ( which is owned by Honeywell ). Search the net for a vendor. I know that they are bought in bulk, but the individual can purchase single units. I haven't looked for a vendor yet, but here is there site.

http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/hss/hobbscorp/catswitch.asp

 

[Groomz]

Here it is. Remember its just a diagram. Use common sense hooking it up. Use the instructions with the diagram. Not one or the other. I still have a better pic of it, but here's the smallest I could fit on the site. Thanks.

 

[Defiant]

NAPA carries an adjustable Hobbs switch. It's used for water injection systems.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by Defiant
NAPA carries an adjustable Hobbs switch. It's used for water injection systems.

Awesome. Thanks for the info.

One less obstacle. Does anyone know how much the boost and purge solenoids run at the "dealer"?

 

[dsmracer69]

dude i just came back from napa and they had no idea what a hobb switch was so any other suggestions?????

 

[Auladan]

Alright, I think I've got everything down, except for one thing. What exactly is that Vacuum Canister? The one with two nipples, one that bends 90 degrees? Nothing like that is in my bay, that I can recall off-hand (I'm not at home right now). Is it something I have to purchase, or is it a part of my emissions setup, or...?

Thanks for taking the time to answer mine and others questions, and to bring this setup to our attention in the first place.

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by dsmracer69
dude i just came back from napa and they had no idea what a hobb switch was so any other suggestions?????

Oh, silly me. I'd forgotten about the Wholesale Collapse of Western Civilization.

Browse here:

http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/hss/hobbscorp/catswitch.asp

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by Auladan
Alright, I think I've got everything down, except for one thing. What exactly is that Vacuum Canister? The one with two nipples, one that bends 90 degrees? Nothing like that is in my bay, that I can recall off-hand (I'm not at home right now). Is it something I have to purchase, or is it a part of my emissions setup, or...?

Thanks for taking the time to answer mine and others questions, and to bring this setup to our attention in the first place.

It comes or should come with the JDM motor or the Cylcone intake manifold ( if bought seperately ). For you guys who didn't get one, I would recommend either searching the classifieds or use something similar to it. All it is is a vacuum resevoir with a one way valve on one of the nipples. It should be about the same volume as the JDM one ( about one cup of water in volume? ). If I can find the part number for a vacuum cannister, I'll post it up. Its gonna take some searching though.

 

[Groomz]

Here is a Mopar part number which is a vacuum cannister: 4677204. I do not know if it will work, or it may even be the same part. Its 7$ so if it doesn't work, you can still buy lunch.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by dsmracer69
dude i just came back from napa and they had no idea what a hobb switch was so any other suggestions?????

Its a device that is commonly used with fish tanks. It can be used in water or with air, so I would head over to a pets store or fish store and ask for a pressure switch that switches over at 5psi.

Friend:" Where do you shop for performance parts?"

Me:" The pets store and home depot."

Just a little stand up internet humor.

 

[dsmracer69]

ok imma head over there tomorrow thanks man

 

[ralliartguy]

I've herd that a jdm cyclone engine is alot stronger than usdm. That it will handel up to around 30psi. on stock internals. Is this true? How much stronger is the jdm? I also herd the tranny is stronger too. I would like to get one cause I have no 2nd gear and my idle is screwy cause of uneven compression.

Justin

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by ralliartguy
I've herd that a jdm cyclone engine is alot stronger than usdm. That it will handel up to around 30psi. on stock internals. Is this true? How much stronger is the jdm? I also herd the tranny is stronger too. I would like to get one cause I have no 2nd gear and my idle is screwy cause of uneven compression.

Justin

No different other than that the USDM 6 bolt motor other than bracket differences and the Cyclone dual runner intake manifold. USDM and JDM stock 6 bolt motors have gone 500whp on stock internals ( and correct tuning of course ). 7 bolt USDM motors have seen 400whp stock, so its not so much the motor as the person tuning and modifying it. Tuning can make or break an engine. To be safe, keep it at 400whp on stock parts though. To setup the dual runner manifold, just do a quick search. I posted a how-to make it work thread.

 

[thekellbeast]

Psi doesn't have anything to do with how strong the engine is. Higher boost levels (psi) increase the chance of knock, which you fight with higher octane gas. When you're talking about how strong an engine is, you're talking about horsepower / torque levels.

 

[ralliartguy]

Actually,
I was asking how much psi the engine can handle. I must have asked the question wrong.

 

[dsmturboawd]

very wrong question.

instead you should be asking how much hp/tq. the answer is 500whp +.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

The JDM head also has slightly larger passages and ports on the intake side...

 

[ralliartguy]

What would my fellow dsmers recomend doing to that jdm engine before I put it in consider the following:
(besides of course changing fluids and timing belt)

I want a relyable daily driver
I would like to be mid 13's
I am not a drag racer even tho its fun sometimes, but I won't be running the strip too much, I want it to be strong enough for scca rallys and auto X.

I was thinking just going a head and putting rods, rings, and pistons in right away while its all nice and open, for higher boost and maybe in the future getting rid of the 14b and getting something like 16g.
And thoughts on a good clucth, I don't care if its hard to drive, I do that well suprisingly. Ohhh, I want to run pump gas!

Justin