Planning a Product Review on XS Power & SSautochrome products - need some tips

[ninjai_ruken]

Subscribing

 

[TERBOLASER]

Hey guys sorry its been a while since i got onhere and posted updates. so ill give you a short one. right now Im at the dilema of mounting the waste gate. the 46mm is just too big to fit in the engine bay unless i out it in backwards wich i dont want to do because the waste would have to fight exhuast pressure just to open up. .... or I will abandon powersteering totally which it looks like im going to do. it took me a minute to get this far because of college and of course the fact that i needed something to drive in the mean time. so i fixed my conquest and rebuilt that first now i got the eclipse in pieces in my garage. Im working diligently at the moment and ill have picks really soon as soon as sunday for what i have done so far. I do have a few questions on the waste gat installation. Like for instance. if you referr back to the pictures in this post of the waste gate. Can i get away with installing the waste gate so that it sits vertically versus horizontally. AKA backwards would it still open up? or would it lock its self shut from the exhuast pressure. I know its a valve and all essentially but my major concern is the piston fighting the exhuast pressure pleas some in put so i need a cheap solution. brokein college. So its either drop power steering orinstall waste gate backwards. Im leaning my self towards droping power steering.

 

[TERBOLASER]

o0hh yeah for got to answer questions okay. to new logics and blackspooln



black spooln I already have there BIG FMIC I bought one like year or so ago its great. stay cool very well.

NEW logic Thats a very good ideal Ill include that info in the next post to the best of my ability. I got a digital caliper for precision measurement of the ports etc so ill give that a shot. Please let me know any information yall want to know.
As for O2 housing or basic down pipe im getting one made. beacue I dont need a full exhuast im just running open downpipe from now on. NOISY yet no flow problems.

 

[1gcrazy]

Subscribing

As am I...

 

[greyforestgst]

take that wrap off of your manifold. don't ever run it with it on, your egts will be ridiculous, and it will crack.

well before that though, those zip ties holding it on will turn to liquid heheheh.

anyways, waiting for results.

 

[TERBOLASER]

greyforestgst what do you take me for?

take that wrap off of your manifold. don't ever run it with it on, your egts will be ridiculous, and it will crack.

well before that though, those zip ties holding it on will turn to liquid heheheh.

anyways, waiting for results.

Did you think alot before you posted that statement or even read the entire thread. Heat wrap will be off for the moment till I see how much the turbo lags. yeah I know the egt will be high but thats the point. the hotter I keep the turbo the less lag and better spool and efficiency. Remember a turbo is a thermodynamic device that relys on the expansion of hot gases. its not as simple as blowing air thru a pin wheel. aka expansion of gases relates to pressure and heat is proportional to pressure. the more heat I keep in the turbo the better..... to a limit that is. of course too much heat can be detrimental to the turbo and of course manifold. but how can you make horsepower and torque playing it on the safe side if the manifold cracks then i go toa cast iron t3t4 manifold. thats the bottom line. the whole point of this thread is to seehow the product holds up. so if I go easy on it what does that really say about the producted. it survived because I was merciful. so id rather use it as i would anyother manifold and see how it holds up.

No flame intended just reminding a few of yall the mission of this thread. and intentions.

sigh..... as for the zip ties. ever heard of setting some thing up to see how it looks and how you would wrap some thing. I have metal ties for it but I wasnt planning on putting heat wrap on till I figured out my lag situation.

high egts are some thing that cant be avoided in a situation of lag reduction. simply for the fact that the only way to reduce lag is to increase the temperature of the gases going into the turbo. if you look at it logical and think about things. every thing you do to reduce turbo lag increases heat getting to the turbo in some fashion. whether it be N2o or leaning the fuel out or an antilag or misfire system does the same thing increases the heat even a timing retard studder box does the same thing.

Any way thanks for subscribing tot he thread.
heat wraps off for now. every thing is in the car now just need to put the BOV in and oil lines etc then i can start her up after making my calculated fuel maps and timing maps.

ill have pictures soon later on today.

PS. ohh quick question for yall

just to see if anyone thinks on the same track as me

I plan to use heat wrap in two locations of my turbo system one on manifold and turbo
the other on upper IC pipe. Any one know why i would put heat wrap on the uper IC pipe? id like to know if any one can guess.

 

[1gcrazy]

I plan to use heat wrap in two locations of my turbo system one on manifold and turbo
the other on upper IC pipe. Any one know why i would put heat wrap on the uper IC pipe? id like to know if any one can guess.

UMM keep the intake temp cool? Keep the ambient temp of an engine bay off the, cooler, intake pipe? You have extra cash burning a hole in your pocket? Depending on what kind of pipe...Keep it from rusting?

 

[TERBOLASER]

two reason man one is to lock the heat thats in the upper IC pipe in and next is to keep unwanted enginebay temperature out. reasoning is to aid in fuel delivery. Atomization of fuel is key to any engine. and depending on the volatility of the liquid( fuel) a certain temperature must be reached so that after the injectors atomize the fuel that the heat in the intake air charge will convert it to a vapor state. Point of the heat rap on the intake is to keep it in a vapor state. engines do have trouble keeping fuel in a vaporstate when the gas wants to be a liquid. so if you cool your air too much youll actually start having problems its the same reason cars have trouble cold starting. but are fine once they warm up. If you plan on pushing alot of fuel and air into you motor its a good ideal to looka t every thing on the basic level i suppose. but i dont think its something that would make a huge difference but hey every little bit helps. right.....

 

[TERBOLASER]

okay guys im gunna Finish this review now. sorry for the long wait ive been hella busy with setting up my internship with BRE motorsports and getting ready for exams and other crap.... so i had to find and make time to put this turbo and everything on properly. I will post pics later on today. but im gunna recap every thing since my last post. starting with fitment issues.

Fitment issues I didnt have any fitment issues with the manifold bolted on perfectly i just suggest you make sure your flanges are planed and flat they might abe warped from the machining proccess that they use to cut flanges. as for the fuel rail no problems unless your useing double o-ringed 850 cc injectors. No leaks from the fuel rail at all.
the Bov works flawlessy from my experience with the second one. just make sure its lubricated with lithium grease.

Uhh clearance issues. My one main petpeeve with the turbo setup upon installation was the lower oil return clearance. there was non the turbo ended up sitting right above the front engine mount so i had to use and elbow and turn the oil return 90 degrees to some weird angle wherethe hose has a tendancy to try to pinch its self. But i think its because this setup is for awd and i awdrive have 2 front supports on 1g and they might be in different locations.

wastegates are flawless but dump tube wont fit because it wont clear any thing
in any position unless the dumptube is striaght.
things to e carefull of.....

fittings for oil on the turbo. brass fitting strip easily and dont seal with out thread sealer keep that in mind for you noobs.





The turbo is installed and runs and had no problems initially. but about 200 miles into use even though i followed the direction and primed the turbo as described in the directions. the turbo leaks oil. it appears the seals are blown already. allowing oil to leak into the compressor side of the turbo and burn oil like crazy. This is less than a weekends use of the turbo. soo im gunna pull the turbo off. and even though its been 2 months past the 1 month warranty on the turbo. i am going to try and contact xspower and see if they will replace the turbo given the situation..... I wont be mad if they dont offer to swap out my turbo.for a new one. ... but ill be happy as hell if they replace it after warranty since it has been used for 200 miles. which every one can say is unacceptable turbo life span.

All and all i can say that everything else so far is a plus besides the turbo.

Now i have to get to the task of removing the turbo and cleaning oil out of my intercooler and lower IC pipe. and see if there is any remedy for the situation shy of a rebuild. which i am capable of..... With turbo exchange less than hour and a half away i might beable to develp a proper solution to the internals of the turbo thru their help.

ill post pictures next post . thanks to all who have subcribed to this thread
any ideas please let me know.

 

[GSTdude06]

Did you get a 02housing made? I was going to by this turbo but then I found out the 02 housing was like another 250$... im cheap haha

 

[Newlogics]

okay guys im gunna Finish this review now. sorry for the long wait ive been hella busy with setting up my internship with BRE motorsports and getting ready for exams and other crap.... so i had to find and make time to put this turbo and everything on properly. I will post pics later on today. but im gunna recap every thing since my last post. starting with fitment issues.

Fitment issues I didnt have any fitment issues with the manifold bolted on perfectly i just suggest you make sure your flanges are planed and flat they might abe warped from the machining proccess that they use to cut flanges. as for the fuel rail no problems unless your useing double o-ringed 850 cc injectors. No leaks from the fuel rail at all.
the Bov works flawlessy from my experience with the second one. just make sure its lubricated with lithium grease.

Uhh clearance issues. My one main petpeeve with the turbo setup upon installation was the lower oil return clearance. there was non the turbo ended up sitting right above the front engine mount so i had to use and elbow and turn the oil return 90 degrees to some weird angle wherethe hose has a tendancy to try to pinch its self. But i think its because this setup is for awd and i awdrive have 2 front supports on 1g and they might be in different locations.

wastegates are flawless but dump tube wont fit because it wont clear any thing
in any position unless the dumptube is striaght.
things to e carefull of.....

fittings for oil on the turbo. brass fitting strip easily and dont seal with out thread sealer keep that in mind for you noobs.





The turbo is installed and runs and had no problems initially. but about 200 miles into use even though i followed the direction and primed the turbo as described in the directions. the turbo leaks oil. it appears the seals are blown already. allowing oil to leak into the compressor side of the turbo and burn oil like crazy. This is less than a weekends use of the turbo. soo im gunna pull the turbo off. and even though its been 2 months past the 1 month warranty on the turbo. i am going to try and contact xspower and see if they will replace the turbo given the situation..... I wont be mad if they dont offer to swap out my turbo.for a new one. ... but ill be happy as hell if they replace it after warranty since it has been used for 200 miles. which every one can say is unacceptable turbo life span.

All and all i can say that everything else so far is a plus besides the turbo.

Now i have to get to the task of removing the turbo and cleaning oil out of my intercooler and lower IC pipe. and see if there is any remedy for the situation shy of a rebuild. which i am capable of..... With turbo exchange less than hour and a half away i might beable to develp a proper solution to the internals of the turbo thru their help.

ill post pictures next post . thanks to all who have subcribed to this thread
any ideas please let me know.

That turbo will blow oil if return line is pinched. Try getting a pre-molded hose from any autoparts store to see it this solves the issue.

 

[TERBOLASER]

THE TURBO LIVES!!!!! wasnt blown just bad oil flow on the return side. I did a tear down to find just piston ring seals were not with in spec on the gap I reset them and they are now fine.
Be sure to read below to get detail any questions i will answer.




gstdude06

Did you get a 02housing made? I was going to by this turbo but then I found out the 02 housing was like another 250$... im cheap haha

I didnt use an o2 housing i did a 1 piece open down pipe setup. so the down pipe now bolts to the turbo directly with out the third party o2 housing. ( its just more stuff to bolt together figured I would make it simple.) and it cost me 40 to fab. at a meineke ( under the table )
of couse make sure your o2 s ensor clears your oil filter or you will end up running a really small oil filter which raises your oil pressure a little bit. Im running a 6607 oilfilter. ( best thingabout working at jiffylube is i know filter numbers and sizes like the back of my hand i can just look and tell)


Uhh..... newlogics

That turbo will blow oil if return line is pinched. Try getting a pre-molded hose from any autoparts store to see it this solves the issue.

way ahead of you on that one it was the first idea on the list of things to stop it from smoking. like crazy. but it turned out to be some thing i didnt think to spec on turbocharger when i first got it and tore it down. the two piston ring seals inside the turbo one above the thrust bearing assemble sealing the shaft on the compressor side and the piston ring seal on the exhuast wheel turbine side on the turbo. i speck the clearance of the gaps in them and they fell short so i just re a gaped them with a screwdriver and all was well. other things i did in addition to cleaning my FMIC of oall the oil it contained. and my IC pipes as well was i swithced to 20/50 oil for the summer.offers better seal protection and lubrication at the expense of simple having to warm my car up before driving it. last but not least i found another hose in my garage that came witht he set up that doesnt collapse when making tight bends and it works great and i sealed every thing up with thread seals on ever fitting on the turbo.

Hurray no more smoke. it burns so clean its almost hard to believe i own a dsm.

but since then the kit has been holding strong. but it lags like a bi*** i dont think i hit boost till 4000-4500 its nuts but when it hits it hits like a ton of bricks.

 

[Newlogics]

but since then the kit has been holding strong. but it lags like a bi*** i dont think i hit boost till 4000-4500 its nuts but when it hits it hits like a ton of bricks.

Hmm.. This is exactly how that turbo feels on the car I installed it on. Lots of lag, but when boost hits, it breaks traction in second....

 

[LaN-]

so the turbo wasnt dead after 200 miles?????

if so clearly stat that so people that are just glancing at this thread dont think "o just another POS from ebay"

 

[NeEmO6]

What are your thoughts on the manifold?

 

[Sbeing1]

this seems like a sweet thread, im anxious to hear more!

 

[TERBOLASER]

okay guys im back had to go to MIR for my internship on BRE motorsports pro 4 drag racing team If you were out there I was working with chuck sietsinger. we won first place and had the fastest qualifying time. but enough about that im sure since it was in a honda it doesnt matter to anybody on this forum . J/k

Now that im back ive had time to play around with the turbo. setup see what i can and cant do with the XS-57 trim. so lets see where to start off i guess ill answer the question that were asked and fill that request. Remember any suggestions , concernbs are greatly appreciated. This post is simply here to be product review that answers all the questions dsmers want answered about this brand/ sellers turbo kits and also should set ground for the same review of every other turbo kit for the 4g63t .


First request by LaN-

so the turbo wasnt dead after 200 miles?????

if so clearly stat that so people that are just glancing at this thread dont think "o just another POS from ebay"

request approved refer to post in question no one will miss that. not being an ass but i figured thats really import so I wanted to make sure every body see it. If any body see some thing like this in the future in one of my posts where something might not be clear to some one just glancing let me know ill change the color or the font or size or something to make it stand out.

Next is a comment Iwant to offer some advice on........


New Logics said.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TERBOLASER

but since then the kit has been holding strong. but it lags like a bi*** i dont think i hit boost till 4000-4500 its nuts but when it hits it hits like a ton of bricks.

Hmm.. This is exactly how that turbo feels on the car I installed it on. Lots of lag, but when boost hits, it breaks traction in second....

Well Im only 20 years old right now and in my 3rd year of motorsports technology major in college and been messing with dsm since I was 13-14ish So I wont say Im a dsm God or a DSM tuning wizard/ guru. But Im pretty sure your experienceing that hella lag because either (A.) you are running stock fuel maps with or with out larger injectors...... or (B.) bottom line you just are really pig rich bottom end in what ever fuel map you created larger or stock injectors.. Which in either choice you are running to rich to produce enough heat ( aka the energy needed to spool this thermodynamic device) to spool the turbo quickly. Remember as far as air fuel ratios go RICH =cold, slow, and safe , and LEAN= hot, fast, and dangerous. whether its All motor applications or forced induction its all the same. In order to spool a turbo quickly you must put enough heat into the turbine to make it effeciently spool other wise that turbine is essentially just a restriction in your exhuast untill like say 5000 rpms maybe 6k running pig rich . anbd when it spools yeah it will hit like a ton of bricks thats because the is huge spike in power. Think about it if you spool the turbo at say 2000rpms ( shits and giggles number) as you go thru the rpm band you gain power in a gradual curve rising with rpms..... But if you go rich and you rpms raise to 5 grand and then your turbo suddenly adds 7 lbs of boost your going to get the HP and torque in that instant at that rpm for that amount of boost and fuel .

fOR YOU COLLEGE GUYS WHO PARTY LIKE ME JUSTTHINK OF IT AS WHEN YOU GO TOA PARTY AND ITS A SAUSAGE FEST FOR LIKE 4 HOURS AND THE ARE 20 GUYS AND 2 GIRLS AND NO BODY IS TALKING OR DOING ANYTHING. THEN LIKE 30 GIRLS RUSH IN AT ONCE AND ALL THE SUDDEN ALL THE GUYS ARE GETTIN BUSY WITH 1 OR 2 GIRLS AT A TIME. THATS WHATS HAPPENING IN YOUR CYLINDERS WITH NITROGEN AND HYDRO CARBONSAND A FEW OTHER ASSORTED GASES.

so if your running pig rich and think thats where your turbo is supposed to spool you are wrong. because thru simple 10 minutes of logger time and another 7 -8 of tuning adjustments my 57 trim spool around 3400 rpms a whole 1000+rpms more than before. and smoother acceleration results. I go more in depth on what I did at the end of this long post.

Like I said Im no guru or tuning wizard but it just seems obvious to me thats the way thing run chemically physically in a turbo application.


Next moving on to the question and the last statement.



NeEmO6 wrote:

What are your thoughts on the manifold?

My thoughts on the manifold are its been holding up fine only one crack on it and its not a curcial one at all. welds for the support beam for the wastegate flange. but other than that its fine havent had any issues. Ive managed to make it glow a little bit every once and a while just to abuse it to see how fast I could get it to crack. and it hasnt cracked yet at any of the obvious stress areas. which I will make a photo of and cirlce them on paint for next time. No I will say I believe the flanges are made from hot rolled steel which is bad for machining process because it WARPS
so make sure you check to make sure your flanges are planularly flat. If not take it to a machine shop that resurfaces heads and tell them to resurface the flanges to make sure you have a good seal. I know they will look at you funny but its for the best.



Okay the update finally i know thestuff you really want to here.

So I went out abusing this turbo kit andstuff and quickly found fuel cut at 13lbs on stock 450s haha once again just for shits and giggles and for setting my limits untill I go AEM
and 850s several months down the road. so then I went back and did a few wide open throttles and boost adjustments and decided to start with wastegate actuated boost levels which is a mild 7-8 lbs. so from there I can go thru the entire rpm band no problem besides the horrible lag untill 4500-5 grand. Now once you spool it its the greatest thing in the world but as far as dead stop its the worst 60 foot possible. So I hook the loogger shows me being pig rich...... based on the principles I told yall above on turbo lag. I decided to make 3 maps on the efi pms stages 1, 2, &3 . right now Ive tested the first map and there is a definite increase of 1000 rpms spool time way more power than before and a smooth increase in power to the point that it is hard to keep the car straight. Now remember since I do both street and dyno tuning this is street tuning. this is all off of feel and datalogger data. so just think about that while I share the 1rst stage fuel map I made as basis for tuning.

Tuning maps on the EFI systems PMS ( programables management system)

Idle fuel-----------(-8%)
Idle timeing-------(0%)

Part throttle LL (Low load)

RPM Fuel timing
2200 -10% +8 degrees advance
4000 -10% +8 degrees advance
6000 -10% +8 degrees advance
7800 -10% +8 degrees advance

Part throttle ML ( medium load)

Same table as part throttle LL

Part throttle HL ( High load)

Same table as part throttle LL

WOT map

Same table as part throttle LL

Remember these are what I chose as a safe starting point to improve on over time although its results are great and the car will make it into the mid to high 13s with this and that turbo the way it runs theres room for alot of imporvement. from what I saw on the logger I can still go leaner in the bottom end and thru out the mid range and just alittle in the high end.

But most important is the turbo is holding up and its running the car strong. any questions on set ups and tuning. No other major problems so far.

OHH yeah for those of you who have never had a full race wastgate on the car. pretty much when you start running 36mm external wastegates and higher they are racegates basically and tend to come with two vaccumn hose fittings on them. one on the top and one on the side. you only need to attach your vaccumn line for boost control to the one on the side in this kit with this particular 46mm wastgate. the fitting on top is for you to used compressed air to hold the waste gate shut in high boost applications like say your running 50lbs of boost. I know pretty bad ass for some thing that like worth 125 bux to xs power and works great.

anyways any quest comments post them let me here them I have to go study microbiology and get ready for work on the pro 4 car this weekend so we can go to nopi in st. louis.

 

[sp00ln]

More pics.

 

[TERBOLASER]

be patient for pics man i doing this for the dsm community bare with me. and i stated above there will be more pics just gotta find my memcard again since i lost it. between my room and my garage.

 

[Bandit]

good write up. i just bought a T4 manifold and fuel rail off of a local guy who bought the kit for his 420A (just sold the manifold and fuel rail). im just going to have some supports made so that the manifold isnt taking all the weight of the turbo

 

[GSX_Dan]

Have you got your WG to clear the P/S? I know from experience that mounting the wastegate in reverse doesn't work as I had the same dillemma as you at one point.

A few recommendations on the manifold though. Make a brace that goes from the turbine flange to the head flange in a V shape, especially if your downpipe isn't braced anymore like stock. Also ceramic coating is a much better alternative to heat wrap. The coating is applied to the inside and outside of the runner keeping the heat away from the metal and channeling the heat energy more efficiently.

 

[goonie]

be patient for pics man i doing this for the dsm community bare with me. and i stated above there will be more pics just gotta find my memcard again since i lost it. between my room and my garage.

hi man all in all a nice tread
just would like too see how you mounted the wastegate
and how did you connect it
i have the same set up and the same clearance issues with the p/s
do you have some pics?
thanks.

 

[DsMWookie]

So how high of boost have you ran on their wastegate and did it hold solid?

 

[Newlogics]

So how high of boost have you ran on their wastegate and did it hold solid?

I don't know how much boost he runs, but I run 28psi on 'their' wastegate with no issues.

 

[TERBOLASER]

well month 2 Every thing holds ive tried alot to break the kit for the greater good of DSMtuners every where. Its still fine no cracs besides on brace weld that isnt problematic. uhh as for waste gate I removed power steering i know from professional experience the wste gate isnt bi directional. uhh boost right now im only on 8 lbs because i couldnt get the 850s in yet so im going AEM with it. hurray but bad news is i have to continue the testing in a another chassis because I just got rear ended by a dodge ram 1500 2003 crew cab. and i know im gunna get totaled by the insurance company ill post pics later since im going to take picture of the damages ill take pictures of the motor