painting my car - color choice

[H@xtGSX]

Well, being that he backs up his work, I wouldn't take that carrot away. 6 vans is a big chunk of work and will pay the bills for a while. I would be damn sure to make the paint as perfect as my time constraints would allow for that amount of work, which is obviously what he is doing. I know exactly what he is thinking right now... Write off the mistake in hopes of getting a bigger job. He laid it down thick on your car from what I can tell, so there was no expense spared materials wise. It was undoubtedly meant to be show car thick to be impressive and win the additional business. I think he just goofed up and used too fast of a reducer for laying paint on that thick. I have never seen a standard mil thickness clear crack like that. The only time I have seen anything like that, the clear was nearly 5 times thicker than you would normally spray it, and it set too quick and solvent locked.

 

[MikeSD]

Well, being that he backs up his work, I wouldn't take that carrot away. 6 vans is a big chunk of work and will pay the bills for a while. I would be damn sure to make the paint as perfect as my time constraints would allow for that amount of work, which is obviously what he is doing. I know exactly what he is thinking right now... Write off the mistake in hopes of getting a bigger job. He laid it down thick on your car from what I can tell, so there was no expense spared materials wise. It was undoubtedly meant to be show car thick to be impressive and win the additional business. I think he just goofed up and used too fast of a reducer for laying paint on that thick. I have never seen a standard mil thickness clear crack like that. The only time I have seen anything like that, the clear was nearly 5 times thicker than you would normally spray it, and it set too quick and solvent locked.

The clear is really thick that is for sure. The orange peel is so bad it is like elephant skin. I think he may have sprayed one or two really thick wet coats which contributed to the problem.

Honestly I am kind of happy, because there are some areas showing red that I want addressed as well. Plus I am going to have the fill the antenna hold as well.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Orange peel when spraying that thick is a given. It is HARD to lay it on that thick without a lot of peel. BUT, it gives you a lot more room to wet sand it out to perfection. I do the exact same thing when doing show car wet sanding. It doesn't matter if it orange peels because you'll sand it out. You just want the thickness so you have something to work with.

 

[MikeSD]

So I took my car to a professional auto paint supply store and had them look at it. The guy said he had never seen a clear coat crack like that but it was laid on supper thick and probably a cheap clear. Also the amount of flake on the surface probably means they used a cheap reducer which is why all the flake floated to the surface. There is a lot of glitter in this thing.

Anyway I figured since they are going to sand and respray the car I would practice color sanding and buffing.
I started with 1000 grit then 1500 then 2000 all wet with a block. Then wool pad on variable speed angle grinder with a super cutting paste, then foam pad with a machine final glaze, then hand polish with a flash wax polish stuff.

It was a lot of freaking work for just half of a quarter panel and I think I could do better on my second try. Anyway here are more pics.

can you tell the difference?

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IMG_9136 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

peel, mirror, peel!

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IMG_9139 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

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IMG_9132 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

now you see me, now you don't.

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IMG_9129 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

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IMG_9123 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

 

[johnovision27]

Sir, you've created a mirror.
Seriously though, looks great.

 

[nuclearr]

wow that is some orange peel

 

[1SIC1Gb]

Man that is such a jip place. I would ask for my money back, I wouldnt want them to touch my car again!

 

[H@xtGSX]

That is how it is done... Now you know why I charge $300+ for a wet sanding. It is a shitload of work, and it isn't easy. You've done a quarter panel to the point I usually take it, now imagine how long it takes to do the whole car... and how sore your arms will be afterward. That is good work though. I did my own car by just doing 1 panel a day until the whole thing looked like that. Nice job paying attention to the edges. A lot of people sand right to the edge and burn holes through the clear. I go to about 1/4" of the edge and tape it so I don't accidentally go over it.

It sounds like the diagnosis is about what I expected. I wouldn't necessarily assume he used a "cheap" reducer, as a urethane reducer isn't really hugely different from brand to brand. It was too fast though, and if it floated flake, the painter wasn't waiting long enough between coats to allow for the flash off of solvents. When you put it on that thick, you MUST pay attention to flash times, and personally, I usually go longer by several minutes between coats.

As for the orange peel, that is normal for putting clear on that thick, unless you shoot it really heavily reduced and thin through something like an Iwata. That is how my show car wet sand jobs look prior to sanding. Cut it down to the troughs though, and it will be smooth and very deep looking.

Another tip, which is something you probably noticed eventually, is that you should always look at the surface at a shallow angle while sanding and wash the white crud off constantly, if possible. That way you can see what the surface contour looks like and not take off more than you absolutely must. That'll keep you from doing more work than necessary also.

 

[MikeSD]

That is how it is done... Now you know why I charge $300+ for a wet sanding. It is a shitload of work, and it isn't easy. You've done a quarter panel to the point I usually take it, now imagine how long it takes to do the whole car... and how sore your arms will be afterward. That is good work though. I did my own car by just doing 1 panel a day until the whole thing looked like that. Nice job paying attention to the edges. A lot of people sand right to the edge and burn holes through the clear. I go to about 1/4" of the edge and tape it so I don't accidentally go over it.

It sounds like the diagnosis is about what I expected. I wouldn't necessarily assume he used a "cheap" reducer, as a urethane reducer isn't really hugely different from brand to brand. It was too fast though, and if it floated flake, the painter wasn't waiting long enough between coats to allow for the flash off of solvents. When you put it on that thick, you MUST pay attention to flash times, and personally, I usually go longer by several minutes between coats.

As for the orange peel, that is normal for putting clear on that thick, unless you shoot it really heavily reduced and thin through something like an Iwata. That is how my show car wet sand jobs look prior to sanding. Cut it down to the troughs though, and it will be smooth and very deep looking.

Another tip, which is something you probably noticed eventually, is that you should always look at the surface at a shallow angle while sanding and wash the white crud off constantly, if possible. That way you can see what the surface contour looks like and not take off more than you absolutely must. That'll keep you from doing more work than necessary also.

thanks man, you have been a great help through this process. btw $300 is not enough money for an entire car.

I saw a youtube vid of a guy color sanding (at least the 1,000 and 1,500) with a DA palm finishing sander. So I said WFT might as well try and used a small electric palm finishing sander, it is was much faster than by hand. I still did the 2,000 by hand with a block and in the process of machine buffing it out.

I don't have a compressor so I hope this thing is ok to use.

I even saw where some shops are doing the initial color sand dry to speed up the process, then wet for final go over.

But I see how you could get a really smooth finish with this much clear on it. I am worried about getting the edges though. Maybe just block by hand and take my time.

 

[H@xtGSX]

I won't say it is ok to use an electrical sander... The whole water and electricity thing, you know. I have done it myself though, in a pinch. Just don't electrocute yourself. It will mess the sander up eventually anyhow.

$300 is not for a whole car. That's just blemish and blending work, mainly if a repair didn't melt into the old clear properly or if it got dust or bugs stuck in the top coat. A whole car can be a $1000+ job.

The edges are where you have to be the most careful. Get up to them, but leave a little and don't go over it. I have learned the hard way that you need to just make sure they are level with the top layer or a tad thicker, then just leave them alone. They are so easy to burn thru on, it is less dangerous to leave them, and most people will never even be able to tell.

 

[MikeSD]

I am using a spray bottle with water and misting the paint and trying not to soak the sander itself. It sure sped up the process.

$1,000 sounds much more reasonable for the amount of work this is taking.

The paint shop said they have a guy that will color sand the car for $400.00 and buff it out for $150.00. but I think I would rather do it myself.

Looking forward to getting it resprayed and then buffing the crap out of it. I just put some polish on the car and it looks better.

Have an appointment next Saturday for window tinting which will help the looks quite a bit.

more pics!

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IMG_9168 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

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IMG_9169 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

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IMG_9162 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

 

[grothe3297venge]

Tint your windows, replace the passenger weather stripping, and thing will look like new! Nice color choice by the way!

Oops, just read you were going to tint the windows next week (little illiterate today )

 

[MikeSD]

thanks, wish I could find the weather stripping. Having a hell of a time sourcing one. I had plastidipped that one but when they painted the car their masking ripped off the dip.

 

[99boostedgst]

Quick PS of your car with a fresh coat of R87 paint (the picture looks a lot better if you click on it to enlarge).

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I'll do one of the car in gray later, that way you can get an idea at least.

can you do one in a (blue by you) color? please

 

[MikeSD]

can you do one in a (blue by you) color? please

you would need to ask Gofer and there is a thread for Photoshop requests. Also Gofer is in the middle of a move so he may not be able to get to it right away.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Damn, that looks so close to mine... Just a hint more charcoal color. I love it. Once you get it sanded out, you'll be enthralled with the way it looks. I have my windows tinted to 20% with a silver metallic tint. It matches the overall shadiness of the car well. I think it will be worth the extra effort for you. People will notice it... I have had a lot of comments and requests on my car paint.

Judging from the work you did on that quarter panel, you have the concept grasped. Just do a panel a night, or half of one if your time is tight, until you have hit the entire car. I can tell you right now, a $400 color sand job from a shop contractor is NOT going to look that good. He has to work quicker than you will in order to make it worth his time. You can do the same thing for the cost of sandpaper, and it will turn out better, judging from that quarter panel..... And that also isn't saying the other guy isn't capable of making it look good for a $400 price tag. I have done light scratch removal on whole trucks for $450 and they look pretty dang good when I am done. They just aren't "mirror" finishes.

 

[99boostedgst]

you would need to ask Gofer and there is a thread for Photoshop requests. Also Gofer is in the middle of a move so he may not be able to get to it right away.

i will look him up thank you..

dustin

 

[nubi4life]

You should stick with your factory color. You will like your new fresh paint look anyway regardless.

 

[H@xtGSX]

WTF
...maybe you should stick to the factory color. Many people find them boring... I sure do. There is more than enough red 2g cars out there.

 

[MikeSD]

You should stick with your factory color. You will like your new fresh paint look anyway regardless.

it's a little late for that, scroll up.

 

[jmkhet]

I personally love the grey effin sick!

 

[AngelOfPassion]

I'm still curious what it looks like with the hood up.

 

[MikeSD]

I'm still curious what it looks like with the hood up.

sure thing, I can also show off my new bumper modification. It is call half a truck tire on the freeway mod.

thank God I was already going to get the car repainted. Time for a new Certifit bumper cover. Now I am wondering if I want to fill in the fog light holes before painting the bumper this time.

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IMG_9186 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

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IMG_9188 by Mike Murad, on Flickr

 

[ed1380]

Black metallic

 

[H@xtGSX]

Mine looks like that too. I just say the red is its "brain". The passenger side fog light hole looks like a good spot for a cold air intake take-up to me... That's what I would use it for.