obx FMIC kit

[nazthug]

ok, what happened to this company?

Since when does obx turn around from making rice parts to making LSD's, cams, manifolds, headers and NOW intercoolers, which are btw, EXACT replicas of APEXi????

I mean its almost as if they literally, take a product, CLONE it, and sell it for 1/3 the price

The products look nice, but WTF???

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how can you possibly do this? At these prices? Legally????

 

[wam2004]

so is there any word on a similar kit coming out for the 1g?

 

[adidas5482]

Does anybody have the obx intercooler kit sold on ebay for $499. I supposed to be just like the apexi gt intercooler. I've been going by the motto that obx sucks......but if its the same as the $850 apexi intercooler its worth looking into. Anyways my question is that if anybody has this intercooler please leave some feedback consisting what you think about it quality/performance wise.

 

[rdeterman]

theres already a thread going on about this.. ill see if i cant find it.. but i guess people are saying that obx has turned themselves around and the product is similar to apexi actually exact replicas

 

[99gst_racer]

The only thing OBX did to raise quality and turn themselves around was to copy all of it's top competitors. All of their new product line is a cheaper, close replica of someone else's product. Their ignition coils are just like MSD's. Their silicone radiator hoses (extreme junk quality) are made to copy Samco's. Their Intercoolers use Apexi's design. And their BOV's are just like Turbo XS's. I dont personally like the company at all. And only about half of their copied products are quality manufactured. I can tell you one thing...... they definatily werent making any friends with any manufacturers at SEMA. Not with a booth full of ripped off products. There are a few manufactures with pending lawsuits against OBX. I'm assuming there will be many more to follow within the next quarter or two.

Cliff notes version: Yes, they may be improving their quality and product line, but that still doesnt make them any better to buy from. I'd personally rather give my money to the company who invested money in R&D (ei. SlowBoy, Buschur, Hahn, GReddy, APEXi, etc.).

Just my .02

 

[97spydagst]

i also seen them on ebay for 550 shipped with piping! seems like a good deal to me and i was think about maybe gettin one never heard the company sucked thow

 

[eyebrowski]

the OBX manifolds are made by SS autochrome from what ive been told. And weve all hear the bad stuff about them. But theyres a website dedicated to why the OBX manifolds are junk somewhere.

http://92civic.tripod.com/

 

[Jehu]

It's not that hard for a company like that to swoop in and offer products at 1/2, 1/4 the cost. All the hard work is already done. The engineering, R&D, trials, things that take money and direct costs that factor into the product cost. Ever try to release a quality product into the market place? Not easy and not cheap. Plus there's the added uncertainty of how many products you want to amortize your initial costs on to come in at a reasonable price point. Spread it over too many items, you don't sell enough, and you end up losing money.

Now, somebody like OBX comes in, takes your hard work, takes it overseas where labour is literally less than a few dollars a day, and gets a copy made. They change one or two details on it, call it their own design. They've just been able to harness the results of all your hardwork, plus now you can't compete because they didn't have your overhead, both design and labour.

Pretty soon we'll end up with a whole bunch of copy cat companies and no new products. But hey, who needs innovations when we can have all the low quality manifolds we want for a penny and a song?

 

[92awddsm]

I hear eveyone talking about cracking tubular manifolds but how many still had the support bracket from the dp to the block? You have to remember, you are hanging the weight of the turbo, 02 housing, downpipe, and even some of the exhaust if it is missing some of the hangers. Add extreme heat to that equation and any manifold is prone to cracking.

 

[VRMAN]

It's not that hard for a company like that to swoop in and offer products at 1/2, 1/4 the cost. All the hard work is already done. The engineering, R&D, trials, things that take money and direct costs that factor into the product cost. Ever try to release a quality product into the market place? Not easy and not cheap. Plus there's the added uncertainty of how many products you want to amortize your initial costs on to come in at a reasonable price point. Spread it over too many items, you don't sell enough, and you end up losing money.

Now, somebody like OBX comes in, takes your hard work, takes it overseas where labour is literally less than a few dollars a day, and gets a copy made. They change one or two details on it, call it their own design. They've just been able to harness the results of all your hardwork, plus now you can't compete because they didn't have your overhead, both design and labour.

Pretty soon we'll end up with a whole bunch of copy cat companies and no new products. But hey, who needs innovations when we can have all the low quality manifolds we want for a penny and a song?

You've just been given a lesson in business and why the world's economic system is so fubared.

 

[olmytsi]

you get what you pay for.

 

[99gst_racer]

The only thing OBX did to raise quality and turn themselves around was to copy all of it's top competitors. All of their new product line is a cheaper, close replica of someone else's product. Their ignition coils are just like MSD's. Their silicone radiator hoses (extreme junk quality) are made to copy Samco's. Their Intercoolers use Apexi's design. And their BOV's are just like Turbo XS's. I dont personally like the company at all. And only about half of their copied products are quality manufactured. I can tell you one thing...... they definatily werent making any friends with any manufacturers at SEMA. Not with a booth full of ripped off products. There are a few manufactures with pending lawsuits against OBX. I'm assuming there will be many more to follow within the next quarter or two.

Cliff notes version: Yes, they may be improving their quality and product line, but that still doesnt make them any better to buy from. I'd personally rather give my money to the company who invested money in R&D (ei. SlowBoy, Buschur, Hahn, GReddy, APEXi, etc.).

Just my .02

 

[GOT 2RBO]

just because something looks exactly the same, it doesn't mean that it works same. if you want to have an intercooler just for the looks, there's plenty of them available cheaper on ebay, if you want an efficient one... you'll have to pay more. i suggest you shell out the extra $300 or so in getting the real deal. and 99gst_racer is right, all they do is copy other people's products. their reputation is so bad now that they had to change their name. they're not OBX (outback racing products) anymore, they go under a different name now. :thumbdown

 

[GPTourer]

1. Maybe the other companies are just ripping us off? I mean when you can buy a PAIR of headers for a big block V8 at or below the cost of our headers, there is something wrong if you ask me.

Good old supply and demand, if we pay it, they will charge us for it!

An interesting point. But, let's look at it this way. The Chevy small block has been out since like, what, the 50's? All the engineering has been done to death over the past fifty years. The Honda B-series and the Mitsubishi 4G63 are mere infants by comparison. There are so many many more companies working on products for the Chevy that it makes products for those engines that much more cheaper. By comparison I think Ford parts are a little more expensive and Mopar Hemi parts are the MOST expensive because those motors are rarer. I think you are right still, it probably only takes about $75 to make the header, but we are paying for the R&D. It probably takes a lot more effort to extract more power out of a 1.6L Honda then it does out of a 5.7L Chevy, so maybe if the Japanese were to design an engine with 350ci, we'd have something a lot more complicated then the typical 2 valve OHV engine. The typical Japanese V8 has DOHC, variable valve timing, four valves per cylinder and so on. A NASCAR grade engine and associated parts are a lot more expensive then what you would find in a typical Summit or JEGS catalog. But the parts we get for our cars from A'pexi, GReddy, HKS and so on - are NASCAR level, or JGTC level - there is nothing better. I don't think. Plus the fact that they come from overseas makes them more expensive too. That's why parts from Buschur, RRE, etc are cheaper and may work just as well.

Okay so I got carried away. But hopefully you see my point.

 

[truwarrior]

The fins on that intercooler look wayyyyyy to spaced out..... :thumbdown

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

http://92civic.tripod.com/

i have read that before. pretty unfortunate. i think it speaks VOLUMES.

 

[Defiant]

you get what you pay for.

Do you? Is the B&M shifter really worth three times the cost of the eBay clone? I love the B&M, it's an excellent product. But there's no way in hell four parts, one weld and a bearing are worth $160. Same for the K&N FIPK. $120 for a filter and an adapter? $300 for a goddamned plastic headlight? This stuff isn't enchanted. Too many of these prices are set by the dog-licking-its-balls principle.

No, sometimes you get screwed by what you pay for. The hard way.

Then again, how did cars ever get to be "worth" twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty thousand dollars?

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

ok so wats the deal with the FMIC.. everybody's been mentioning how crap the other products are such as the manifold.. but wats the deal with the FMIC?
i assume greddy and apexi rip people off with their prices.. it shouldnt cost that much to make some pipes.. and im sure if bought in bulk a company can get intercooler cores for cheap and sell it to the general public for some significant profit..

i understand the manifold being questioned because i assume it would take a lot more R&D and different ways ot producing them..

but the fmic? if the core is solid.. is it safe to say that its a good deal?

 

[cait sith]

Where are you guys shopping for the Apexi FMIC for that much? Most places I see it for ~800 bucks.

 

[truwarrior]

Endcaps look out but the core itself looks like crap...look more like a toy.

 

[tt281gt]

If your buying that for reasons other than trying to look bling. You will be dissapointed. Theyres a website on that very T3 manifold by OBX. Measure the runner size, collector size where runners meet, and thickness of tubing. Youll probly cry.

well so far im not dissapointed. I think the website you are talking about is this one http://92civic.tripod.com/ (as someone posted earlier) not this manifold but from this company. When anything like that happens to mine Ill be sure to let you all know and cry.

 

[GPTourer]

Do you? Is the B&M shifter really worth three times the cost of the eBay clone? I love the B&M, it's an excellent product. But there's no way in hell four parts, one weld and a bearing are worth $160. Same for the K&N FIPK. $120 for a filter and an adapter?

Well, no - but there again you are paying for the R&D. Someboyd that comes along and copies the design didn't invest in the rejected deisgns, field tests with prototypes, dyno (referring to the FIPK) they just copied the end result - so of course their investment is lower they can sell it for cheaper.

Cars getting more expensive? That's easy. The government imposes stricter safety and emissions standards year after year. Yet people want more and more features and more and more power but at the same price. Steel, plastic and glass didn't necessarily get that much more expensive - but the cost of engineers thinking up ways to meet the requirements of the government and consumer demand has.

 

[LaserDad91]

An interesting point. But, let's look at it this way. The Chevy small block has been out since like, what, the 50's? All the engineering has been done to death over the past fifty years. The Honda B-series and the Mitsubishi 4G63 are mere infants by comparison. There are so many many more companies working on products for the Chevy that it makes products for those engines that much more cheaper. By comparison I think Ford parts are a little more expensive and Mopar Hemi parts are the MOST expensive because those motors are rarer. I think you are right still, it probably only takes about $75 to make the header, but we are paying for the R&D. It probably takes a lot more effort to extract more power out of a 1.6L Honda then it does out of a 5.7L Chevy, so maybe if the Japanese were to design an engine with 350ci, we'd have something a lot more complicated then the typical 2 valve OHV engine. The typical Japanese V8 has DOHC, variable valve timing, four valves per cylinder and so on. A NASCAR grade engine and associated parts are a lot more expensive then what you would find in a typical Summit or JEGS catalog. But the parts we get for our cars from A'pexi, GReddy, HKS and so on - are NASCAR level, or JGTC level - there is nothing better. I don't think. Plus the fact that they come from overseas makes them more expensive too. That's why parts from Buschur, RRE, etc are cheaper and may work just as well.

Okay so I got carried away. But hopefully you see my point.

Not trying to argue, I agree and disagree with your statement, and you have made some very good points.

The $75 cost for the header would also include cost for R&D since that cost is amortized out over the life of a product. Costs like R&D could be compared to interest on a 30 yr mortgage. In this example, you pay a majority of the interest in the first say, 5 yrs, then you start paying off more on the Principle, (ie, the $ amount you borrowed). Any new product will do the same, with the option of lowering the price later (once expenses for R&D, tooling, and engineering have been captured), IF the MARKET DEMANDS REQUIRE THEM TO DO SO. The last part of this statement I feel is the key to the costs for parts for our cars. DSM’s and other imports are cheap to buy and very popular, just as muscle cars were in my day as a teen, the 70’s.

Yes you are correct; all of the V8 platforms have been around for a long, long time and have more companies offering products, since there are more of them out there period, and most of the basic R&D, engineering, tooling, has been covered. You are also right on target with part costs vs., Chevy (GM), Ford and Chrysler. In my day, Mopar parts were always more expensive, (say, 10 to 20% higher) than Chevy. Why? Volume, there were just more Chevy Camaros, Ford Mustangs, than ‘Cudas and Challengers, which is why I bought the ‘Cuda in the first place, it was more unique than the other two. I think the “three” have come closer with their part costs on today’s platforms; I am kind of focused here on the performance arena for the above.

But let’s look at the “infant” 4G63. This motor has been around for 15 years now. 4 cylinder Japanese and German technology has been around for 20+ years. R&D for these platforms were done in Formula One, Indy Car and SCCA racing, just as the V8’s were done in NHRA, Nascar, Indy, and SCCA. Furthermore, the DSM general platform has had about everything you can do to it, done to it. From what I can tell, generally, the people like Bucsher etc. did a lot of the R&D back in the 90’s, that more than likely, most of our “performance vendors” have “borrowed” (politically correctly speaking here) and incorporated in the parts we buy today. No patent, no protection!!

Your points are valid concerning R&D, and more specifically, age and volume of platforms, part sourcing and manufacturing location, etc. I think what also affects costs is how unique every manufacture is these days in their engineering of cars like ours, particularly, engine design. In my day, you had the big three, and they controlled most of the "market". Now look at all the manufactures you have, and the market "diversity". Good points.

My point is basically there has been enough volume sold (if not we are getting real close to it), to probably cover most of the initial “investment” to make the parts. Also, the MARKET has probably MATURED enough to warrant more competition from other manufactures.

But prices will stay high as long as the MARKET will SUPPORT it! OBX may or may not have the quality in their manufacturing, but that is not hard to obtain and be competitive, with a WORLD market, as someone else also pointed out.

In closing………finally…….

I like seeing the lower cost and it will be interesting to watch how the other companies respond and what changes happen in “our” market. Hopefully, things will become more “affordable”.

 

[LaserDad91]

Well, no - but there again you are paying for the R&D. Someboyd that comes along and copies the design didn't invest in the rejected deisgns, field tests with prototypes, dyno (referring to the FIPK) they just copied the end result - so of course their investment is lower they can sell it for cheaper.

Cars getting more expensive? That's easy. The government imposes stricter safety and emissions standards year after year. Yet people want more and more features and more and more power but at the same price. Steel, plastic and glass didn't necessarily get that much more expensive - but the cost of engineers thinking up ways to meet the requirements of the government and consumer demand has.

All good points, and I would like to add a few..........

As for the increase in the cost of cars, well………cars last longer than they used too! Therefore they are going to cost more initially, to cover the loss in "turnover", generally speaking. Also, car companies come out with "new" designs more frequently, which require new machinery, new tooling, etc. ($$ investment) However, the "machinery", is now being requreed to be more flexible, and reusable, which is the latest trend I am seeing in the automotive industry. All to keep investment down, and sticker price, down.

The cost of steel right now is at world high’s, never seen before. Why? China is on a building boom, buying everything! While they may not be buying steel for cars, they are using up manufacturing CAPACITY to meet their DEMAND. Look at the size of China and their population………staggering………and one reason we the US has never chosen to fight them………it is better to do business with them, have them dependant on your market, and control them economically….. ok off subject, sorry.

 

[99gst_racer]

I like seeing the lower cost and it will be interesting to watch how the other companies respond and what changes happen in “our” market. Hopefully, things will become more “affordable”.

Yeah, but hopefully the quality and expensive companys dont lower their quality and standards as well as price, just to compete with companys like OBX. I'm one of the guys that is still willing to pay a little more for quality and reliability.

 

[cait sith]

Endcaps look out but the core itself looks like crap...look more like a toy.

Apexi cores are good stuf (More durable than the Greddy cores), I just can't tell if it's a direct copy of the Apexi core or if the Apexi core is "denser"

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Here's a pic of a real Apexi GTR core.