~~~NOW WITH PICS~~~And the boost creep Wont Stop!!!

[volcom121]

What if he got a stronger acuator? Some shop sells 17 and 20or22psi acuators for like $90. That should keep the flapper from creeping open at low boost. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[pickens]

Correction: A stronger actuator will not reduce creep. In fact, it will increase boost creep.

Everyone who is running aftermarket downpipes, no cat, and big exhausts will generally creep on 16g style and larger turbos. Some will even creep w/ a cat in place.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

I had a small and a big 16g with all the supporting mods for each, I never had boost creep not even 1psi. I ported everything out alittle bit and i got the 34mm flapper.

My friend has a 2 g with a big 16g and alot of mods but he is creeping to 20psi, And he has everything ported and has the 34mm flapper.

 

[volcom121]

Correction: A stronger actuator will not reduce creep. In fact, it will increase boost creep.

Everyone who is running aftermarket downpipes, no cat, and big exhausts will generally creep on 16g style and larger turbos. Some will even creep w/ a cat in place.

Why would this increase the creep. J/W Could you explain please.

 

[squeak10686]

I've never seen such bad port work in my entire life. Do not try to fix this problem yourself. If you have boost creep, take the turbo to a reputable dsm shop, (or mail the thing to SBR) and get them to do the flapper mod, and have them FIX your "port job". By the look of things you did more harm than good! Seriously, the surfaces you ported out look very jagged and nothing looks smooth AT ALL. You probably hurt your spool up time in the process. I don't know why so many people make a big deal about boost creep, it is so easy to fix. Get a huge ass flapper. End of story. To really eliminate ANY chance of boost creep, have a professional port out the wastegate area on the turbo and on the 02 housing, this along with a big flapper will totally eliminate boost creep. PLEASE take your turbo to be professionally ported, looks disgusting!

What the fuk are you talking about, alot of reputable shops in town have seen the portjob and say that it looks like ive done a very good job... It is smooth as all hell after everything was polished... I also noticed that i just have the turbo xs non hp boost controller.... if im only getting 3 or 4 lbs of creep instead of the 10/11 i was getting than im sure i did something right... Ill take off the 02 housing and put in a 02 dump and see if that helps...

but sonic the pics may look bad.... but ill get some more pics when i take it back off and post them up

 

[92redman]

What the fuk are you talking about, alot of reputable shops in town have seen the portjob and say that it looks like ive done a very good job... It is smooth as all hell after everything was polished... I also noticed that i just have the turbo xs non hp boost controller.... if im only getting 3 or 4 lbs of creep instead of the 10/11 i was getting than im sure i did something right... Ill take off the 02 housing and put in a 02 dump and see if that helps...

but sonic the pics may look bad.... but ill get some more pics when i take it back off and post them up

That's what I was going to recommend you try if you can get away with it in your state. Punishment has them for a little over a hundred bucks for 2.5" tubular mild steel o2 housing. You can get it rerouted or dumped... don't know if the rerouted one would help or hinder your situation, but an 02 dump definately can't hurt

 

[Boiler2]

Not sure if you have already seen this, but here is some info. I wrote it. 3" full exhaust including downpipe with no boost creep for about a year now.

Judging by your pictures, there is more port work that can be done. I can see my wastegate hole looking from the top down into the turbine housing. That is how much porting I did. It is about the path of least resistance for the exhaust gasses to follow.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99090

 

[squeak10686]

i dont know if you can notice, but the whole is much easier noticable... will porting the shit out of my 02 housing help also???

 

[1993eclipseGS]

I personally think the port work looks good, It might look messed up in the pictures, But mine looked the same way when I took pictures, But in person it is a whole different story. Good job with that. Also, Porting your o2 housing might help, But you might hafto get the 34mm flapper or a dumped o2 housing. Since you are doing all the port work yourself, It isnt costing alot, only time. You mitezwell just port the o2 housing, If you plan on keeping it.

 

[squeak10686]

I have the new o2 housing sitting in my room just need to have time to put all of the stuff on... we will definately see soon.. Thanks alot for supporting me in the porting, it does look 100 percent different in person...

 

[thegreatms]

Why would this increase the creep. J/W Could you explain please.

A stronger wastegate will simple hold the door tighter closed. This might help you spool quicker if your wastegate is leaking.

This will make it harder to open the wategate door, and air might have more restriction coming out of turbine housing, leading to more creep.

These higher force wastegates are used when some one is running high boost and is worried that the wastegate is cracking open and slowing down spool.

 

[92redman]

A stronger wastegate will simple hold the door tighter closed. This might help you spool quicker if your wastegate is leaking.

This will make it harder to open the wategate door, and air might have more restriction coming out of turbine housing, leading to more creep.

These higher force wastegates are used when some one is running high boost and is worried that the wastegate is cracking open and slowing down spool.

He can only run boost pressure at or higher than the spring rating, not lower, so if he doesn't want high boost that is not an option. It is only the case if somebody is using a boost controller that is turned way up already. It wont help him to change his wastegate actuator, only getting more air through the wastegate itself will help.

Edit: I only ment to elaborate on this guys post so whom ever mentioned using a stronger wastegate above would get it, wasn't trying to contradict in any way. Sorry if this was unclear.

 

[pickens]

A stronger wastegate will simple hold the door tighter closed. This might help you spool quicker if your wastegate is leaking.

This will make it harder to open the wategate door, and air might have more restriction coming out of turbine housing, leading to more creep.

These higher force wastegates are used when some one is running high boost and is worried that the wastegate is cracking open and slowing down spool.[/QUOTE

Exactly correct.

 

[squeak10686]

thanks alot guys for all your help, any suggestions like the ones your giving me are great... keep up the good work

 

[jimh]

go check your physics book.

force = pressure * area.

The wastegate door has a constant force holding closed (based on the wastegate actuator design).

If the area goes up, then the amount of pressure needed to open it goes down.

You almost drew the correct correlation between increased area and lowered pressure. The lowered pressure means that it will take more pressure to open the flapper. As an example (not real numbers, just for the sake of simple understanding) if the stock flapper was 1 sq.in. and the pressure inside the exhaust housing was 10 psi, the flapper would see a force of 10 lbs. Now if the flapper is increase to 2 sq.in. and the pressure was still 10 psi, the larger flapper will only see a force of 5 lbs.

squeak10686: I think a resonable option would be to do the 34mm flapper and finish porting the wg hole.

 

[squeak10686]

Where can i get this flapper, and what about it opening up under high boost... I would really like to go under high boost of about 20psi come spring... just what i am wanting to do... and secondly is there any vfaqs or websites on how to install the flapper...

 

[92redman]

You almost drew the correct correlation between increased area and lowered pressure. The lowered pressure means that it will take more pressure to open the flapper. As an example (not real numbers, just for the sake of simple understanding) if the stock flapper was 1 sq.in. and the pressure inside the exhaust housing was 10 psi, the flapper would see a force of 10 lbs. Now if the flapper is increase to 2 sq.in. and the pressure was still 10 psi, the larger flapper will only see a force of 5 lbs.

squeak10686: I think a resonable option would be to do the 34mm flapper and finish porting the wg hole.

Close, but no.

Force= pressure x area

10 lb/(in^2) x 1(in^2) = 10 lbs
10 lb/(in^2) x 2(in^2) = 20 lbs

If your conclusion was correct, then we would have to apply more force to our brake master cylinder then we get out of our calipers because the master cylinder pistons are a lot smaller than caliper pistons.

You can get the flapper from slowboy for like $40 or something

 

[REDBLUR]

Close, but no.

Force= pressure x area

10 lb/(in^2) x 1(in^2) = 10 lbs
10 lb/(in^2) x 2(in^2) = 20 lbs

If your conclusion was correct, then we would have to apply more force to our brake master cylinder then we get out of our calipers because the master cylinder pistons are a lot smaller than caliper pistons.

You can get the flapper from slowboy for like $40 or something

I was thinking the exact same thing. The above is correct.

Answer me this; you are standing outside on a windy day and you hold up a sheet of plywood say 4ftX4ft above your head with the sheet facing perpendicular to the direction of the wind (constatnt speed). Now you hold a 10ftX10ft sheet above your head.

Which one will have the greatest tendancy to blow you over?

 

[jmakado]

The surface area of a larger flapper actually makes it more difficult for the flapper to open. Due to the increased surface area, the pressure in the exhaust housing would have to be increased in order to overcome the force exerted by the wg actuator on the larger flapper. Therefore the larger flapper is less prone to "crack open" early because the same pressure is applied over a greater area. (This assumes the wastegate hole is ported out to an area greater than stock)

uuuhhhhmmm.....NO! read thegreatms's post.......

 

[squeak10686]

alright, so dont get the bigger flapper????

 

[PieTSI]

Porting the O2 housing has little effect on boost creep. Port the turbine housing of your turbo so you can clearly see the wastegate flapper when looking directly above it. Take another 1/2" of material out more than you have on the wastegate side, do not port the remaining part of the turbine housing.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Just thought I'd Add that Having a shop port it or put a bigger flapper on won't always eliminate creep. When I bought my E316g from SBR I had them Port it and put the bigger flapper on and it still creeps to 20psi.

My Solution, Run 20 psi

 

[Big Bald]

To get rid of my boost creep i ordered the Turbine Housing that is offered by Bullseye power and David Hall. It worked perectly for me and i had no creep. It comes ported and has a 38mm flapper. It is also easy to uninstall the flapper and use a external wastegate as i did. I think that is the best way to go about eliminating it. I had their turbine housing for a year and had no issues with it. Here is a link to it......

Steel Turbine Housing - Mitsubishi Inlet


it isn't that hard to install at all and you should be all set after the install. PM me if you have any other questions about it.

 

[paul s]

I have a 50trim turbo with internal W/G and I can run 17psi with no creep at all(OK maybe it will go to 18 close to 7500rpm in 4th)..the turbo is ported/polished the devider(02/turbo)is cut(1/2) evo3 O2 and 3inch exhaust no cat..

 

[squeak10686]

what does he mean by cutting the divider, and can any of you guys send pics of your port jobs so I can see a REAL GOOD port job on it, i just want to get rid of these for pounds im getting creep from, shouldnt be to hard i already have brought it down 6