~~~NOW WITH PICS~~~And the boost creep Wont Stop!!!

[squeak10686]

After porting my exhaust manifold, 02 housing, and even my turbo and wastegate whole i am still continuing to get the dreaded boost creep....

I have a 3 inch exhaust except for the downpipe... What could I do to potentially finish the boost creep.... It went down from creeping 8 lbs to now creeping 4....

Would puting a external dump on the car, and even doing the rest of my exhaust....

Thanks alot for the help...

Andrew

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[David15151]

i would try the flapper mod

 

[sweet97]

Icut a notch between the wastegate outlet and them\ turbine outlet.

 

[David15151]

that will just give you a lot of turbulence.. get the flapper mod

 

[PieTSI]

Before you get the flapper mod. Port the inside of the exhuast turbine housing so that the exhaust flow goes straight to the wastegate. This is the most overlooked part of portwork on a turbo. Take a good bit out, and you should be good.

 

[squeak10686]

I ported the whole, and the housing... still no stopage... Its probably the 02 housing, didnt port it to well... that and me having the 2 1/4 downpipe...

 

[squeak10686]

does anyone else have any other ideas???

 

[LandoAWD]

Bigger flapper.

 

[REDBLUR]

Before you get the flapper mod. Port the inside of the exhuast turbine housing so that the exhaust flow goes straight to the wastegate. This is the most overlooked part of portwork on a turbo. Take a good bit out, and you should be good.

I agree. In your last picture it looks like you did practically nothing to improve the flow to wastegate. You should be able to remove a decent amount of material to allow more exhuast gases to flow into the waste gate passage. (on the left side of housing in last pic)

Flapper mod is a bad idea. Increasing the surface area of the flapper makes it difficult to control boost at higher settings, as a large flapper door is pushed open much easier then a smaller one.

 

[LandoAWD]

Flapper mod is a bad idea. Increasing the surface area of the flapper makes it difficult to control boost at higher settings, as a large flapper door is pushed open much easier then a smaller one.

I'd like to hear more facts on this. There are numerous vendors that offer this service, and people I know around here running 20+ on 50trims and larger that have no creep with a 38mm flapper.

 

[2-0turbo]

I'd like to hear more facts on this. There are numerous vendors that offer this service, and people I know around here running 20+ on 50trims and larger that have no creep with a 38mm flapper.

The more boost you run the less problem with creep you will have. The lower the boost setting, the more you have to bypass the turbine to get that lower boost setting. Guys who want to run 3 or 5 PSI on a rather stock system would HAVE to have an external. It is the only way you can "waste" that much exhaust to prevent the turbine from turning too fast and making more boost.

I agree with other posters. Proper porting, even with stock sized flapper, can eliminate creep. I have full 3" back exhaust with wastegate routed into exhaust and I can run 10 PSI with no creep (this is with a 14B) and running it all the way to 7K RPM. When I had turbo problems and swapped on a new 16G, it would creep to 18 (or more)--I basically had no boost control with a stock turbine housing.

 

[sweet97]

I have a 50 trim with a 38mm flapper. I did cut a small notch between the gate and the turbine outlet, only in fourth gear and only at high revs. This winter I will make the notch a little bigger. I doubt some turbulance will hurt performance and PTE does it all the time. The turbulance does not worry me, boosting beyond my engine's capablilities does. Mark

 

[LandoAWD]

The more boost you run the less problem with creep you will have. The lower the boost setting, the more you have to bypass the turbine to get that lower boost setting. Guys who want to run 3 or 5 PSI on a rather stock system would HAVE to have an external. It is the only way you can "waste" that much exhaust to prevent the turbine from turning too fast and making more boost.
.

This I understand, but to call it a "bad idea" to have a larger flapper...

 

[jmakado]

I'd like to hear more facts on this. There are numerous vendors that offer this service, and people I know around here running 20+ on 50trims and larger that have no creep with a 38mm flapper.

there were also vendors making "mutt" turbos that were not all they were cracked up to be to say the least.....and not to mention vendors selling turbos with the 17c and 19c wheels which are crap at high boost.....just because they sell it doesn't make it *good* or *correct*.
it is well known that while a larger flapper will help with boost creep it will also slow spoolup and make running high boost more difficult. the surface area of a larger flapper makes it open more easily and therefore it is more prone to "crack open" too early and leak some exhaust that could be used for spooling the turbo quicker. also, as it blows open, it takes more effort for the turbo to get to a set psi. if your friends running 25psi on a large internal could magically switch to an external they would see that they are really *running* the turbo at a much higher boost pressure (30psi maybe?)....they would also find that they are getting full spool much quicker.
internals can and do work well for certain turbos. however the smallest flapper that can do the job (control boost) correctly is the best. improving flow after the flapper is a much better way of controlling creep than just putting a larger one in.

 

[rsr93]

After porting my exhaust manifold, 02 housing, and even my turbo and wastegate whole i am still continuing to get the dreaded boost creep....

what boost controler are you using this could be part of your problem.
(creeping or spiking? just checkin)

yes finish your exhaust you need a DOWNPIPE that should help with your issues.

IMO the downpipe is your problem and getting one should fix your creep problem you have done everything else.

good luck
and let us know what fixes it

 

[David15151]

yes finish your exhaust you need a DOWNPIPE that should help with your issues.

IMO the downpipe is your problem and getting one should fix your creep problem you have done everything else.

good luck
and let us know what fixes it

How would giving less backpressure by upgrading the downpipe give him LESS boost creep if anything he will creep more.

 

[LandoAWD]

How would giving less backpressure by upgrading the downpipe give him LESS boost creep if anything he will creep more.

Agreed.

Thanks jmakado for elaborating.

 

[squeak10686]

I think i should get an external dump, plus im only running 10 lbs... i think when im driving with 15 creep wont be a huge problem...

 

[squeak10686]

You cant even say that the turbo isnt ported enough... I PORTED THE SHIT OUT OF IT!!! look you can actually see the whole now.... I really think its since i didnt port my 02 sensor housing all that well....

We will see...

 

[92redman]

Why did you port the turbine inlet? Isn't that just going to let more air flow past the turbine wheel and negate the wastegate porting? Or am I incorrect?

 

[sonicnofadz]

I've never seen such bad port work in my entire life. Do not try to fix this problem yourself. If you have boost creep, take the turbo to a reputable dsm shop, (or mail the thing to SBR) and get them to do the flapper mod, and have them FIX your "port job". By the look of things you did more harm than good! Seriously, the surfaces you ported out look very jagged and nothing looks smooth AT ALL. You probably hurt your spool up time in the process. I don't know why so many people make a big deal about boost creep, it is so easy to fix. Get a huge ass flapper. End of story. To really eliminate ANY chance of boost creep, have a professional port out the wastegate area on the turbo and on the 02 housing, this along with a big flapper will totally eliminate boost creep. PLEASE take your turbo to be professionally ported, looks disgusting!

 

[jimh]

. . . the surface area of a larger flapper makes it open more easily and therefore it is more prone to "crack open" too early and leak some exhaust that could be used for spooling the turbo quicker. . .

The surface area of a larger flapper actually makes it more difficult for the flapper to open. Due to the increased surface area, the pressure in the exhaust housing would have to be increased in order to overcome the force exerted by the wg actuator on the larger flapper. Therefore the larger flapper is less prone to "crack open" early because the same pressure is applied over a greater area. (This assumes the wastegate hole is ported out to an area greater than stock)

 

[thegreatms]

The surface area of a larger flapper actually makes it more difficult for the flapper to open. Due to the increased surface area, the pressure in the exhaust housing would have to be increased in order to overcome the force exerted by the wg actuator on the larger flapper. Therefore the larger flapper is less prone to "crack open" early because the same pressure is applied over a greater area. (This assumes the wastegate hole is ported out to an area greater than stock)

go check your physics book.

force = pressure * area.

The wastegate door has a constant force holding closed (based on the wastegate actuator design).

If the area goes up, then the amount of pressure needed to open it goes down.

Also a bigger downpipe will not help things, it might make them worse.

It is simply not that easy to make a stock wastegate hold high boost AND not spike under low boost. But, a good port job will go a long way, and when you turn up the boost your spike problems should take care of themselves

 

[pickens]

Check out this post
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145605&page=2&highlight=finally+boost+creep

 

[Patter$on]

how is everyone getting soo much creep

i got a evo 3 16g which is notorious for creep but i get none...
would having the greddy spec b make it not creep i dont know the answer but im damn glad i dont have it