No reverse. Where is it when shifting manually at tranny?

[v8s_are_slow]

Okay, I just put my tranny back in today after doing a clutch job and tearing apart my tranny for inspection cause it was grinding bad in 2nd gear and was gonna replace the gearsets but everything looked good so decided against it. Upon startup, I had no reverse. I know I didn't miss anything in the tranny so not even thinking about pulling it right now. It shifted fine in 1st thru 5th. Just not reverse and won't even TRY and go in reverse. Car running or off, It's the same. Adjusted it at the pedal and still nothing. I'm thinking "maybe" my cables so wanna shift it by hand 1st and then do it with the cable to see what happens, but where is reverse if I'm shifting it at the tranny by hand? Just not sure which position it needs to be in. If I'm looking at it from the front of the car, does it need to go down and then left or right? Or in the up position and to the left or right? Thanks. This is a 98 GS-T btw, with Fidanza, Act 4 puck, and Spec pp if it matters.

Oh yeah, reverse switch was really tight on top of the tranny so loosened it up and then some just to be sure.

 

[ilco187]

pull back on the lever that goes up and down, aka the side to side motion towards the firewall, and push the gear lever forward, to front of car.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Thanks, about to check it here in a few.

 

[blackrosenova40]

If you took your trans apart, did you remember to put your reverse idler bolt back in?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

The one that goes in the back of the tranny that holds it in place? Yes.

Okay, I just tried doing it by hand and it won't go into reverse. DAMN IT!!!! Anyone have ideas what could be keeping it from going into gear? I can't think of anything right off hand. I didn't even bother to take the gears out of the tranny. Just took the 1st set of gears off when I removed the cover and added the plastic thingy that was missing from where someone else decided not to put it in when they had it apart before me. Basically, that was it aside from just putting all the bolts back that I took out. Gonna be pissed if I have to pull the tranny again.

 

[blackrosenova40]

I dont think you need to pull the tranny again. But... I would pull the top cover of the tranny while its in the car. 5th and reverse share the same shift rail, by taking off that top cover, you may find the problem, or give you a good idea of what the problem is. Maybe the reverse syncro is put in wrong and wont allow the shift fork to move into reverse. Something isnt allowing that fork to move the slider. Taking off that cover will give a good clue why.

If the problem was more inside your tranny near the reverse idler, then Id think it would affect fifth too, so I dont think thats the problem.

Take that cover off, only like 10 bolts, and im sure you will solve the problem.

 

[Rob10_99]

Did you put back in the reverse idler bolt that goes on the ear area at the top?
Reverse has no synchro fyi, so you have no reverse at all? you might have put it back together with the finger outside of the shifting area where the 3 rails intercept.

 

[blackrosenova40]

Sorry to burst your bubble, they do have reverse syncros, thats why they have a reverse cone in the end cover along with a reverse wave spring.

Jacks Transmissions LLC — Reverse Synchro Ring

And I already asked if he replaced the idler bolt if you scroll up.

Did you put back in the reverse idler bolt that goes on the ear area at the top?
Reverse has no synchro fyi, so you have no reverse at all? you might have put it back together with the finger outside of the shifting area where the 3 rails intercept.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I have an awd tranny sitting on my porch, so I decided to take the cover off of it too. If I take off the cover and the fork there and move the rail around a lil bit, I get the same effect. So not sure if it's something deeper in the tranny or just on the outside. Now when I took my tranny apart, the lil plastic thingy was gone and the wave spring on the outside cover along with the piece that's held into the cover with 3 allen screws. And the screws were missing. So I replaced that with the spare tranny. Not sure what the plastic thing does along with the pieces that were missing in the end cover.

I haven't taken the end cover off mine yet. Gotta find something to catch the fluid in so I can reuse it cause I'm broke for a lil while and can't afford to just go waste $30 worth of gear oil that's brand new.

Oh yeah, and where is that syncro ring at? On the end? I mean I know how to take apart the dang transmission. Piece of cake. Just don't know which gear or syncro is which, other than the reverse gear. It kinda stands out.

Pics of the stuff that I replaced on my tranny that was originally missing...

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And the black piece to the right...

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[ilco187]

the black pieces are the oil guides.

Tranny Rebuild

How to disassemble a 1g awd 5 speed transmission - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

 

[v8s_are_slow]

And the other piece in the end cover? Also, I guess I should note that this is on a 98 GST fwd. Guess I need to change my avatar.

 

[blackrosenova40]

That picture you have there, with the reverse cone/wave spring.

Where it mates on the transmission is where your reverse syncro is.

Its brass and you can fully see it and pull it off with that end cover off.



Its the yellow looking piece on the right.

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What I could see happening is something is in the way or put in wrong between that end cover and where the reverse syncro is, blocking reverse on you.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Aight, I'll check it again. Wondering why it was okay without the wave spring before though. I mean I'd think it's there for a reason and all ya know?

Dunno why I blocked it outta my mind but when I 1st tried to start the car, it'd stall when I let out on the clutch. I was like wtf??? I adjusted the clutch and then it was fine but would squeal when the clutch was let out. Did it a couple of times and then went away for whatever reason. Wonder if maybe it was the wave spring. Hmmm...

Anyway, the squeal stopped and so decided to take it for a drive. It's been driving without a problem at all other than the reverse just not working.

Aight, I'll check it again. Wondering why it was okay without the wave spring before though. I mean I'd think it's there for a reason and all ya know?

Dunno why I blocked it outta my mind but when I 1st tried to start the car, it'd stall when I let out on the clutch. I was like wtf??? I adjusted the clutch and then it was fine but would squeal when the clutch was let out. Did it a couple of times and then went away for whatever reason. Wonder if maybe it was the wave spring. Hmmm...

Anyway, the squeal stopped and so decided to take it for a drive. It's been driving without a problem at all other than the reverse just not working.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

It's been awhile but today is the 1st time I've had a chance to look at the car. I pulled off the end cover and yanked off the fork to inspect to see if the car would go in reverse with the rail alone. It worked but now I'm stumped. Here, lemme post up the pics as I explain....

This is a normal transmission. See the nice brass syncro on the outside?

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Now look at what I have in the place of it.

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Now it fits over the shaft and into the gear perfectly but it won't lemme shift into reverse with that sucker in there. As soon as I take it off, it'll shift into reverse but of course I can't get it back out of gear cause the 3 keeper thingy's pop out. I don't remember seeing a syncro when I took it apart and of course there was no wave spring. It probably explains the squealing I hard when I 1st started it up of course as well. Just dunno why it'd go into reverse before without a problem and now it won't. Can't remember if that washer was there when I took it apart but I kept everything together. I have 3 tranny's sitting at my house and don't have a single one that has the syncro that'll fit in the place of it. Even tried swapping the whole gear and with the syncro's and the fork but they were different. Oh well. Ideas? Thanks.

 

[viprez586]

I can't get it back out of gear cause the 3 keeper thingy's pop out.

You mean the detent springs? IE:Bolt w/ spring + ball bearing. These are for the detent system(keep you from selecting two gears at once). They bolt into the shift forks so you need to properly align the shift forks(shine a flash light in there) before your install the bolt with the spring and ball bearing.


Unfortunately I'm not much more familiar with the 2G trans so I'm not much more help then that. G'luck that supposed reverse cone looks weird as hell. All the ones I've seen are copper. I do see some transmissions(F4M21) that do not have a reverse brake(aka synchro).
In the 1G repair manuals they list "model with reverse brake cone". So some transmissions must have a reverse brake cone and some don't.

Sorry to burst your bubble, they do have reverse syncros, thats why they have a reverse cone in the end cover along with a reverse wave spring.

To clear up the confusion, reverse gear is NOT synchronized. The reverse cone/"spring"/"synchro" is used to slow down 5th gear coupled on the mainshaft. When reverse is selected the reverse idler gear meshes between the mainshaft and the counter shaft. The 2 rotating shafts coupled by the reverse idler gear allow the output shaft to turn opposite as it normally would. This is called a "Reverse Brake".
For example if you come to a quick stop and quick try to slam it in reverse, it wont or you'll get a grinding noise because the reverse brake/cone cannot slow down the mainshaft fast enough to mesh at the right speed of the reverse idler gear.

So reverse utilized the same concept as a synchro, but it physically is not the same.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Here's a video of what it's doing when I shift it by hand at the transmission.

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I'm not talking about the ball and spring. I'm talking about the 3 things around the edges of the gear. Look at this pic and you'll see what I mean.

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[viprez586]

It's hard to see in that video but it almost appears that the shift fork is not sliding the hub all the way over the teeth. I can't tell.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

That's exactly what's happening. I'm wondering if that "cone" is what's stopping it. Cause it goes the other way just fine. The cone goes behind the nut whereas a syncro doesn't and can move back and forth over it just fine.

Just can't figure out why it didn't have this problem before when it was on there....before I tore it apart and put it back together. Hmmm.....

That's exactly what's happening. I'm wondering if that "cone" is what's stopping it. Cause it goes the other way just fine. The cone goes behind the nut whereas a syncro doesn't and can move back and forth over it just fine.

Just can't figure out why it didn't have this problem before when it was on there....before I tore it apart and put it back together. Hmmm.....

That's exactly what's happening. I'm wondering if that "cone" is what's stopping it. Cause it goes the other way just fine. The cone goes behind the nut whereas a syncro doesn't and can move back and forth over it just fine.

Just can't figure out why it didn't have this problem before when it was on there....before I tore it apart and put it back together. Hmmm.....

 

[jeremy19984g63]

let me see a better pic of the piece you pulled out where the reverse snchro goes, and a pic of the inside of the end cover.

If the plastic oil guide was not in this trans then 1st/2nd gears and synchros were not getting oiled. Has wore the thrusts of the hub, and fryed the synchros thats why the gears grind.

 

[blackrosenova40]

Um, it looks as if someone stuck a trans seal or some kind of seal in there. Is that a rubber seal cause thats what it looks like.

It's been awhile but today is the 1st time I've had a chance to look at the car. I pulled off the end cover and yanked off the fork to inspect to see if the car would go in reverse with the rail alone. It worked but now I'm stumped. Here, lemme post up the pics as I explain....

This is a normal transmission. See the nice brass syncro on the outside?

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Now look at what I have in the place of it.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

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Now it fits over the shaft and into the gear perfectly but it won't lemme shift into reverse with that sucker in there. As soon as I take it off, it'll shift into reverse but of course I can't get it back out of gear cause the 3 keeper thingy's pop out. I don't remember seeing a syncro when I took it apart and of course there was no wave spring. It probably explains the squealing I hard when I 1st started it up of course as well. Just dunno why it'd go into reverse before without a problem and now it won't. Can't remember if that washer was there when I took it apart but I kept everything together. I have 3 tranny's sitting at my house and don't have a single one that has the syncro that'll fit in the place of it. Even tried swapping the whole gear and with the syncro's and the fork but they were different. Oh well. Ideas? Thanks.

 

[jeremy19984g63]

Or it kind of looks like a fryed synchro with the cone broke off the cover and is stuck inside of it?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I had to put it back together last night since I needed to be able to drive it. But here's a couple of other pics I had taken. P.S. It's all metal. No rubber.

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[jeremy19984g63]

well throw that thing in the trash and order you a synchro ring. part number MD745479 Is the cone still in the end cover? pics?

like i said if the oil guide was missing. I hate to tell you but 1st/2nd gear bearings, hud, and synchros are toast

now after looking at the pics again you will have to have a new 5th/rev. hub too MD749416

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, I'm having no problem getting it into 1st and 2nd right now. Just reverse.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, I finally have reverse now. Few days ago, I lost 1st and 2nd gear so had to pull the tranny again. Rebuilt it using parts from 3 different transmissions. Had to swap all the shift rails, gearsets, and forks from another fwd tranny (cause otherwise the 5th gear fork wouldn't work), syncro's and the 5th gear from an awd tranny, and kept the center diff from my current tranny. Also had to take the 5th/reverse shift rail to a machine shop to grind it down some cause the rails were so close together that they'd bind and wouldn't shift at all. Now I have reverse and it's shifting better than it has since I've owned this car.

Still plan to go with a Shep stage 4 tranny when I get the chance. So glad I can rebuild these things on my own though. I just saved myself some MONEY!!!!! Thanks for the advice though guys. I really hate pulling/installing 2g tranny's. What a pain compared to 1g's.