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no power to starter

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blowngst

10+ Year Contributor
36
0
Feb 25, 2010
harrisburg, Pennsylvania
hey guys sorry i had to post another thread. it seems my problem is slightly different now. i did search a good bit but i think i need a little more insight. so my car does not start i get a click from the center console and i hear fuel in the engine bay. battery tested good starter tested good. i pop start the car. i used a tester to the starter cables and the little signal wire (black and yellow) is getting full power! im not sure what else i should look for and just need some more tips on what it could possibly be. the starter relay also seems to be fine!
 
Ok, so from the beginning. You've checked you battery and it's ok. You've checked the wire from the battery to the starter. It's connected and there is battery power to that side of the solenoid. When you turn the ignition to the start position you have power at the signal wire at the solenoid. You've also checked for power on the other side of the solenoid while you have the key in the start position. Still no crank. Have you checked how much battery power you have going to the starter? Have you checked for corrosion on your battery cables? Voltage drop? Do all the lights in your dash dim or go out when in start position?
 
yes i have checked the battery voltage its 12v. the signal wire gets full power when turning ignition on. when the key isnt in it looks like it may be getting 6volts. everytime i test the starter signal wire with a light i hear a click in the center console.
 
I'm not sure if I'm understanding you, but you should not have any power on that signal wire if you do not have the key in the start position. If you're seeing power on that wire while you're not cranking then you should go back and check your starter relay. That being said, you say you have full power (at least 10v) on the signal wire while the key is in the start position. That should get your solenoid functioning, so check for power on your other terminal of your solenoid. The one with the short wire going from the solenoid to the starter motor. So check all with the key in the start position, you need at least 10v on the signal wire, you need at least 10v on the power in to the solenoid from the battery, you need to show the same voltage coming out of the solenoid to the starter motor as you do coming in. If there is no voltage coming out of the solenoid to the starter or there is a huge difference in voltage between in and out, you have a bad solenoid. If you have low voltage in and out of the solenoid, then you don't have enough power to get it to crank over. Check your wires on your battery for corrosion. If you're certain you don't have corrosion on your wiring, then get your battery load tested. Just because the battery has 12v doesn't mean it has the amperage to crank the engine over. This is why you check the wiring first, because corroded connections and wiring give the same symptoms as a weak battery. Hope this helps.
 
dangler, lets say i do not have the key in the ignition at all ill use a 12v tester and put the positive on the positive of the battery then i put the other on the signal wire, i then hear a click inside the center console and the light is on looks like maybe 6volts though. now if i put the key in and try to crank the light is much brighter. im lost but please keep helping you seem like you know whats going on with this.
 
I had a simular issue with my car. For some reason dsms, love to eat starters alternators and batteries. I guess my car eats them because its not used a lot. Mostly batterys go. But if you tested the starter and it came back good. Theres still things that would go bad. First make sure you grounded the starter to the actual transmission.

Also id recommend getting a new one. They are tricky little buggers. Basically everything you did i did and it just wouldnt crank the motor, but would do everything else when i took it out and tested it at a local parts store and hooked up to the car and tryed to start it. Come to find out the postive terminal was bad.
 
Ok, lets start all over so there's no misunderstanding, and we'll use the little drawing here as reference. The drawing's not exact to the car, but you should be able to figure out which wires and terminals I'm talking about more or less. And you're looking at the backside of the starter where the wires mount. You say you have a volt meter or multimeter, if you don't, borrow one. Or buy one(great investment)

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1. Check your battery. Meter labeled 1 on the pic. You should have about 12v, maybe more maybe less depending on if you've charged the battery or have been turning stuff on and off.
Also check all your connections at your battery. Make sure they are clean and that they are all tight. Check your negative cable, and make sure it's tight where it grounds on the firewall.
If it's checks out, move on to the next step. If it's low, start charging. If you've got dirty or loose connections fix those first. That could be your problem.

2. Check that you have voltage IN to the solenoid from the battery positive. Connect your positive meter lead to the terminal on the solenoid, and negative lead to a good ground or battery negative. This will be a thick gauge wire coming out of the wiring harness, black and yellow I believe. If you have to, check for the same color wire at the battery positive, if the color's the same then that is your wire. You should have pretty much the same voltage reading at that terminal as you did at your battery.
If it's the same move on. If you have 1 or more volts less than battery voltage at your solenoid, then you have problem in that wire, and you need to replace it.

3. Check your signal wire connection. It's the only thin wire connected to the solenoid. Should be a slip on clip type connector, and it is also black and yellow, I think. Pull it off and make sure the contact is clean, then reconnect it and make sure it locks in.
Now, take your positive meter lead and put it to that terminal, then take your negative meter lead and connect to a good ground or negative battery post. You should read 0v at this time.
Now have a buddy turn the ignition to the start position. Or, if you can secure your meter leads to there connections and place the meter somewhere you can see it that will work to. You should show 12v while in the start position.
If you have voltage there with the key off, then you will have to check your starter relay.
If you have no voltage while in start, check your starter relay.
Low voltage while in start, then go back to step 1, only this time you're checking while the key's in the start position. If low, suspect the battery.

It looks like a long process, but once you start doing it it's actually really easy and it will only take like 30 minutes to check the 3 things. Let me know what you find. Post up some readings if you're not sure. If you don't find it with these we can dig deeper. I'm across the world right now, so sorry if it takes me a while to reply, but I'll get back to you as soon as possible.
 
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dangler, thanks for all the help and the diagram. everything checked ok except step 3. when you say the key is not in and you test it, it should read 0v. well my light turns on but dim, and there is a click in the center console then it clicks off once i remove the tester.

update: i just tested the relay down under the steering wheel when i turn the key i get full power so conncections are good there. i tested the relay by the battery and it clicks when applied so that seemed ok too. what is the problem!?? this is pretty serious since the only way i can start the car is by rolling it down a hill and popping the clutch!
 
Ok, no problem. Lets try hooking up like number 4. Positive lead to the output of the solenoid, and negative lead to a good ground. Turn the key to the start position. You should get battery voltage. If you don't get any voltage coming out of that terminal then get yourself a jumper wire. We'll start playing with power.

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Disconnect your signal wire from your solenoid. Connect the jumper wire to your battery positive. Be extra careful not to hit the other end of the wire on anything. The last thing we need is to arch on something and blow a fuse or burn something up and cause a hand full of other problem. I know the space is tight. Then hold the other end of the jumper to the signal post on the solenoid, just for a second. The starter should kick and start cranking. If nothing happens, then your solenoids bad. You can replace the starter. If it does crank then your gonna have to check back at your relay, or in your signal wiring.
 
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ok checked it. and it checked out ok it popped out and spun. this is one problem that i really cant track down. everything seems to be getting power all the wires get the power when the key is turned. i did check the relay but is there a certain test that will tell me if its fine? i mean when i test it i do hear it click on and off. also just a thought i have a blitz turbo timer maybe something went wrong there? and another thing do you think it would have anything to do with the ignition, i can pop start it so i thought id cancle that out. thanks so much dangler your pretty much my only hope right now haha
 
I'm confused.

If the black/yellow wire at the starter is getting 12v when the ignition key is in the start position and the fat black/red wire has battery voltage the starter should work. The starter relay should not be clicking if the clutch is pushed in nor would you get 12v on the black/yellow wire since the starter relay breaks the connection from the ignition switch to the starter when it activates.

The clutch safety switch is normally closed as is the starter relay. If the clutch is out is activates the relay which breaks the connection to the starter. When you push the clutch in it disconnects the ground to the coil on the starter relay so it doesn't activate. Disconnecting the clutch safety switch bypasses the normal operation allowing the starter to work without pushing the clutch in to start.
 
steve, i dont have to push the clutch down to start the car. when i looked at the switch under the pedal it looks like its wired to the other switch sitting right beside it? i know WTF.
 
Ok, lets check the Starter relay. The clicking sound you're hearing in the center console is probably a different relay. Your starter relay is gonna be towards the bottom of the dash to the left of the steering column. There are three relays there. The starter relay is the one in the center. Let's start with turning the key to the start position and listening for a click from the relay. If you can put your hand on it and feel the click that's even better. Now if it's clicking it still could be bad. Check to see if your getting power on the black and yellow wire when it clicks. If not, it's a bad relay.

If the relay doesn't click at all, check to see if you have power at the black and red wires when the key is in the start position. If you don't then we'll have to look elsewhere. If you do have power, then go ahead and pull the relay out.

Now if nothing is happening with the relay, you could just substitute that relay with one you know is good. If you have an extra one laying around or if you can pull one from one of the other circuits that won't disable the car you can use that, just to see if the car will crank over. It's alot faster than testing the relay. If the relay's not the problem then we'll have to look further into it.

Does your car have the factory anti-theft alarm?
 
Yup, you're right Steve. My mistake. Disregard the clicking part. Just checking for power to the relay, and power out at the black and yellow wire.
 
ok guys, when the relay is plugged in and i try to crank the car i dont hear anything from under the dash. i do hear it in the center console though. i get full power at the signal wire when the starter relay is plugged in however i swear i dont hear it make any noise at all. my car does not have an alarm system. is there another relay i can use just to test it? i dont feel like buying one from advanced auto for 70 dollars and its non refundable for something that im not 100% sure it will fix. jeez this problem is probably so simple but i have checked everything!
 
The center console should be the MPI relay with the fuel pump turning on when you crank.

The readings at the black/yellow wire are suspect and tracking it down is key.
You said that the starter works when you jump solenoid connection so something isn't right with what going to the solenoid using the stock wire. Next stop is at the starter relay with the wiring diagram to check it. Worse comes to worse you can bypass the relay since it's only for the safety switch and theft alarm to disable the starter.
 
yea i have tested the starter and it was fine. how would i go about bypassing the relay to see if it will get the starter to operate or do something! i just need this damn thing fixed
 
Just pull the relay out. Run your jumper wire from your socket with the red and black wire and connect the other end to the socket with the black and yellow wire. Then turn the key to start. If it cranks it's your relay.

I might be wrong on the color for the wire powering the relay. I'm pretty limited on the info I have, so I'm pretty much just basing myself on what I remember for the 2g. So if there is no red and black wire, just take your tester, turn key to start, and check for power on each wire at the socket. At least one should have power. Connect the jumper to that and the other end to black and yellow.
 
You jumper across pins 3 and 4 of the relay socket. From the FSM it looks like the incoming signal is black/yellow from the ignition switch on pin 4 and the output from the relay is black/red on pin 3 which changes later to a black/yellow wire at C-59 before going on to the starter solenoid.

It looks like the other two wires are black/white to the relay coil on pin 2 and green/black from pin 1 to the CSS.

Bypassing the starter relay at C35X this way should work on all 1G manual cars even those with the factory alarm.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...tions/344490-download-1g-service-manuals.html
 
ok so the relay is also good!!! steve and dangler, what about the ignition switch? this seems to be the last possible thing. what do you guys think i should look for next?

actually im not 100% the relay is good but i believe it is. even though the starter tested ok at a store do you think it could still possibly be messed up? its going in the shop soon because i cant take this anymoreeeeee!
 
Well if when you jumped power to your starter solenoid the engine cranked over, then your starter is not your problem. How did you go about checking your starter relay? Also you should have power at two of the pins in the socket where the relay connects when you have the key in the start position. If you have power there, that is coming from your ignition switch, so most likely the ignition switch is good. Also it would help alot if you could get actual voltage readings. It's good to know you have power, but it's better to know how much.
 
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