No Lights, No Power, No Seatbelts, No Door Buzz

[Vansicklej]

91 talon tsi turbo. no mods as of yet (except act 2100)
i have no power anywhere. seatbelts dont move, no lights, no radio. battery is good. all fuse blocks under the car are getting 12 volts. the fuse block in the car, on the floor, is only reading 1 volt. all fuses show to be good, all relays under the hood are good. any ideas besides completely remove the wiring harness and look for a short?

 

[GTM]

91 talon tsi turbo. no mods as of yet (except act 2100)
i have no power anywhere. seatbelts dont move, no lights, no radio. battery is good. all fuse blocks under the car are getting 12 volts. the fuse block in the car, on the floor, is only reading 1 volt. all fuses show to be good, all relays under the hood are good. any ideas besides completely remove the wiring harness and look for a short?

Did you check the main fuse(s) which are located in a small fuse box next to the large box under the hood. It's so easy to short out the B+ terminal on the back of the Alternator and not even know you did it but this is on a 70-100 amp fuse. I think there are 2 smaller fuses of similar design in the same box so check those as well.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Vansicklej]

That box you mention doesn't even ring a bell for me. The only boxes I saw under there is the one on the positive terminal harness for the battery, the one on the driver side of the car, and the one on the passenger side of the car (which I'm guessing is the main box). Next time I get a chance a chance I'll look around for this smaller box you are talking about.

Thanks
James

 

[GTM]

That box you mention doesn't even ring a bell for me. The only boxes I saw under there is the one on the positive terminal harness for the battery, the one on the driver side of the car, and the one on the passenger side of the car (which I'm guessing is the main box). Next time I get a chance a chance I'll look around for this smaller box you are talking about.

Thanks
James

Yes, it may be attached to the battery, I looked at some pictures and saw the large red wire which goes to the Alt.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Vansicklej]

I will still look for the other box you mentioned, but if it i the one attatched to the battery, then all fuses are good. The box on the pos terminal is the same one that houses the MPI fuse. By sight, they all appear good, and I even tested them with a multimeter.

 

[GTM]

I will still look for the other box you mentioned, but if it i the one attatched to the battery, then all fuses are good. The box on the pos terminal is the same one that houses the MPI fuse. By sight, they all appear good, and I even tested them with a multimeter.

If you are satisfied those main fuses are good then you will need to look for relay(s) that have failed including the MPI. If you don't have a manual you need to buy one, there are at least 3 different types of relays so you can swap like kind around. This may be faster than the test procedures for the involved relays. Make sure your battery cables are clean and good connection.

When you test things, do make a log of what you have done so if needed we can question your results. If you don't have a test light this makes things go faster than looking at a meter which you have to read whereas it's easy to see if the bulb is lighted.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Vansicklej]

I have checked all of the fuses, by sight, as well as by meter. They all seem to be good. Now for the relays, I also have a 92 eagle talon A/T FWd, Non-turbo. I switched relays around between cars. The 92 talon started right up with the 91's relays in it, but there was still no change in the 91's behavior. Is this a valid test? If not, then the best way to test the relays is to just do swaps between like relays?

Thanks
James

 

[GTM]

I have checked all of the fuses, by sight, as well as by meter. They all seem to be good. Now for the relays, I also have a 92 eagle talon A/T FWd, Non-turbo. I switched relays around between cars. The 92 talon started right up with the 91's relays in it, but there was still no change in the 91's behavior. Is this a valid test? If not, then the best way to test the relays is to just do swaps between like relays?

It sounds like you don't have a problem with the relays you checked and it's unique to the 91.

What did you do just before to cause this problem? Did you put something under the seat and then adjust the seat, somebody else drive the car... Doing any radio or alarm work,

Before I forget, take the negative battery cable off for 1 minute, this will clear any codes and possibly a gremlin. I doubt you have an ongoing short for they are rare AND easy to find, it's the open circuits that will drive you nuts. But if you smelled smoke you should have mentioned this. There is a bulb check unit behind the radio which can cause a lot of grief, check all the plugs in this area. You must have a manual with a good schematic, pick one thing that has failed and trace it out to it's source. The simpler the item you choose the sooner you will find the problem. I assume you checked the ignition switch harness which must have power at all times. You didn't say if it cranks but this is fairly simple circuit if it won't. You must have tools to do the job and I can't talk you through these things for there is no absolute magic place which I'm not telling you. Of the hundreds upon hundreds of electrical problems I would say less than 1% would involve an internal harness problem or with 99% certainty it's not inside a harness unless involved with an accident.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Vansicklej]

It sounds like you don't have a problem with the relays you checked and it's unique to the 91.

What did you do just before to cause this problem? Did you put something under the seat and then adjust the seat, somebody else drive the car... Doing any radio or alarm work,

Before I forget, take the negative battery cable off for 1 minute, this will clear any codes and possibly a gremlin. I doubt you have an ongoing short for they are rare AND easy to find, it's the open circuits that will drive you nuts. But if you smelled smoke you should have mentioned this. There is a bulb check unit behind the radio which can cause a lot of grief, check all the plugs in this area. You must have a manual with a good schematic, pick one thing that has failed and trace it out to it's source. The simpler the item you choose the sooner you will find the problem. I assume you checked the ignition switch harness which must have power at all times. You didn't say if it cranks but this is fairly simple circuit if it won't. You must have tools to do the job and I can't talk you through these things for there is no absolute magic place which I'm not telling you. Of the hundreds upon hundreds of electrical problems I would say less than 1% would involve an internal harness problem or with 99% certainty it's not inside a harness unless involved with an accident.

Cheers,
GTM

I was getting ready to pull the car forward, and I don't drive a stick so I forgot to tkae the E-Brake off, stalled the car out. Started it back up, took off the E-brake, started letting up the clutch and everything shut down. Since then i've taken the [brand new] battery to autozone and checked...it was good, just needed to be charged. This would account for taking the neg. term off for 1 minute (I think). Also, when the battery is fully charged, when you put both terms on the battery, the battery makes a light high pitch sound, like something is pulling power from it.

Theres been no accidents, and it won't crank. But if there is no power to ANYTHING, would it necessarily be the ignition switch harness?

Thanks
James

 

[GTM]

...
This would account for taking the neg. term off for 1 minute (I think). Also, when the battery is fully charged, when you put both terms on the battery, the battery makes a light high pitch sound, like something is pulling power from it.

Theres been no accidents, and it won't crank. But if there is no power to ANYTHING, would it necessarily be the ignition switch harness?

Thanks
James

This may be a stretch...No/yes, while the battery was going dead it could have left a gremlin code in an eprom. Attaching the battery did not properly clear the code once the battery was returned charged. It's one minute out of your life and takes me longer to write.

At this point I would check the ground cable at the starter, then the engine grounds to body. It sounds like you have a major open circuit at a very elementary level and it could be positive or negative. The whine is frequently associated with a dead battery, capacitor, relay coil, microprocessor not getting enough current to fill or complete certain circuits. You got to help yourself, I'm here and spinning my wheels and a lousy test light would have diagnosed this in 10 minutes.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Vansicklej]

This may be a stretch...No/yes, while the battery was going dead it could have left a gremlin code in an eprom. Attaching the battery did not properly clear the code once the battery was returned charged. It's one minute out of your life and takes me longer to write.

At this point I would check the ground cable at the starter, then the engine grounds to body. It sounds like you have a major open circuit at a very elementary level and it could be positive or negative. The whine is frequently associated with a dead battery, capacitor, relay coil, microprocessor not getting enough current to fill or complete certain circuits. You got to help yourself, I'm here and spinning my wheels and a lousy test light would have diagnosed this in 10 minutes.

Cheers,
GTM

Trust me, I've tested all I could think of with a multimeter, which does basically the same as a test light. I will check these things and repost after I get answers. Thanks for your help.

James

 

[GTM]

Trust me, I've tested all I could think of with a multimeter, which does basically the same as a test light. I will check these things and repost after I get answers. Thanks for your help.

James

"Trust me" that a multimeter will measure voltage even when it cannot pass 1 watt of current because of a poor connection thus what you have checked may be meaningless.

I own probably 6 volt meters including a lab bench top to 6 places and a couple scopes. I probably have just as many test lights including one that uses a headlight bulb. To say they are just the same is not accurate for each has it's good points. Most digital voltmeters sample at 1/2-1 second intervals, I can check fuses 3 times faster with a test light. You can't activate a relay with a multimeter but you can with a test light. I want to impress upon you to not take testing quite so caviler because it can jump up an bite you especially when the results you got sent you off in the wrong direction for 2 days only because you dismissed using a test light in favor of a DVM.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Vansicklej]

"Trust me" that a multimeter will measure voltage even when it cannot pass 1 watt of current because of a poor connection thus what you have checked may be meaningless.

I own probably 6 volt meters including a lab bench top to 6 places and a couple scopes. I probably have just as many test lights including one that uses a headlight bulb. To say they are just the same is not accurate for each has it's good points. Most digital voltmeters sample at 1/2-1 second intervals, I can check fuses 3 times faster with a test light. You can't activate a relay with a multimeter but you can with a test light. I want to impress upon you to not take testing quite so caviler because it can jump up an bite you especially when the results you got sent you off in the wrong direction for 2 days only because you dismissed using a test light in favor of a DVM.

Cheers,
GTM

Ok, so a testlight it is. Never meant to doubt your advice, it's just I go to school 12 hours a week and work 40 hours a week, so I don't really have time to work on the car that I'd really like to get going. So I just wanted to explore all possibilities in theory before checking them physically, that way I don't waste what precious time I have when I get that time. As soon as I get the time, Ill pick up a test light (im guessing an autoparts store?) I'll check it out and let you know what I find.

Thanks

James

 

[Vansicklej]

Figured it out. it was a bad ground on the starter bolt. Loosened the starter bolt up all the way, cleaned it off as well as the ground loop, and fed it back through. Tightened it down and wah lah. Thanks to everyone who helped me.

James