No lag electronically spooled turbo

[No_Skillz]

I don't know if anyone is familiar with these types of turbos. They have an electric motor which spins the blades at lower, eliminating lag. Then when the RPMs are higher, the exhaust takes over. Does anyone know more about these? Why aren't more used in our applications? Seems to me we would really benefit with a 2.0L engine.

 

[GVR4592]

Link?

 

[napkinthief]

If you are refering to those instant plug in turbo/superchargers you find on ebay, they dont work. They dont spin fast enough to create spool, just noise.

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

A friend of my wifes was trying to build one for his GN but kept burning up electric motors because he could not get them to disengage from the turbo fast enough before the exhaust spooled it.


Also a guy here at work was telling me about a "slip-chain" spooled turbo that used the motor until exhaust gases overcome it and spool the turbo completely.

Good concepts but I don't see them catching on. (watch, 2 years from now I will be eating my words)

 

[huafist]

I don't see how this could be of any benefit. An electric engine isn't capable of spinning a turbo fast enough to "prevent lag" within reason able limits.
Sure, you can make an electric motor spin 10k, but one that would be small enough to use in a turbo setup would cost a bloody fortune. Even at that, physics still play a role - the turbine has to speed up to reach operating speed - that's lag.

There would have to be some serious engineering breakthroughs before I would consider it even feasible.

 

[No_Skillz]

I swear a saw a webpage of a line of these turbos made by Garrett... I can't seem to find it but I will keep looking.

 

[dedlewamp]

There's also no free lunch here. All that power has to come from somewhere, and it will either be from your alternator on the lower powered units, or from an extra battery on the more powerful units. The extra weight, and strain on your system, would seem to just slow your car down even more. The eBay ones are all junk. There may be some true electric turbochargers that work in short bursts, but you could get a real turbo kit that works all the time for as much or less than an electric one.

 

[~laser_craver~]

Has anyone ever heard of a vgt turbo? My brother has a f-250 deisel that modded pretty heavily. And if his vgt is unlpug the turbo spools normally, with the lag and no control over the boost level because the vgt acts as the boost controller/ wastegate aswell. But with it plugged in he can make 1-2 psi at idle and can spool 38 psi instantly as soon as he steps on the gas..... Might wanna look at this i dont totally understand the vgt stuff but i know what happend when it was plugged in and not....

 

[GVR4592]

VNT? Or VANT? Never heard of VGT. Besides the points that everybody else has made, consider what affect 25 psi would have on your engine at 2500 RPM's.

 

[Slippi84]

Has anyone ever heard of a vgt turbo? My brother has a f-250 deisel that modded pretty heavily. And if his vgt is unlpug the turbo spools normally, with the lag and no control over the boost level because the vgt acts as the boost controller/ wastegate aswell. But with it plugged in he can make 1-2 psi at idle and can spool 38 psi instantly as soon as he steps on the gas..... Might wanna look at this i dont totally understand the vgt stuff but i know what happend when it was plugged in and not....

Yeah but a f-250 is like a 5.7 liter engine. Hell that's almost 3 times our 4g63's. Think about this take a 50 trim that spools to full boost by 4k now tripple your engine size thus makin it spool roughly 3 times faster. we're talkin full boost almost instantly seeing how as soon as you floor the gas it will jump to around 2500 atleast.

 

[boostedinaz]

Yeah but a f-250 is like a 5.7 liter engine. Hell that's almost 3 times our 4g63's. Think about this take a 50 trim that spools to full boost by 4k now tripple your engine size thus makin it spool roughly 3 times faster. we're talkin full boost almost instantly seeing how as soon as you floor the gas it will jump to around 2500 atleast.

They don't run 50 trims or anythign close. The turbo on a diesel is going to very large especially the exhaust housing. Most have a huge A/R so they can get a TON of exhaust out.

 

[Slippi84]

They don't run 50 trims or anythign close. The turbo on a diesel is going to very large especially the exhaust housing. Most have a huge A/R so they can get a TON of exhaust out.

I'm aware I was just using the 50 trim because most could relate to it's spool time on our cars. I know that they use much much bigger turbos.

 

[a_scobel]

I don't think I'd trust that...there's always ways for electricity to stop getting to the little motor that'd spin the turbo. It's kind of hard for a supply of exhaust gasses to stop getting to it though.

 

[No_Skillz]

I don't think I'd trust that...there's always ways for electricity to stop getting to the little motor that'd spin the turbo. It's kind of hard for a supply of exhaust gasses to stop getting to it though.

The exhaust takes over after a certain point, so worst case scenario (the electric motor fails) it just acts like a normal turbo with normal lag.

 

[huafist]

The exhaust takes over after a certain point, so worst case scenario (the electric motor fails) it just acts like a normal turbo with normal lag.

Actually I figured worst case scenario would be the heat causing the electric motor to seize, and the shaft either being bent or broken due to the exhaust gases still trying to turn the wheel.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Maybe somebody can make one that uses compressed air with a good nozzle at the optimal angle to pre-spool the turbo and you can just refill your compressed air tank every so often with a compressor or what not. Or better yet, just build a small air compressor that runs off of 12v into the car.

 

[boostedinaz]

Or I could launch off my two step and leave at 8-10 psi and use my NLTS to keep my turbo spooled between shift.

Sounds like a good "idea" but it also sound like it will over complicate things. Especially when there are other options already out there that don't need to be powered by an external source. IE read above.

 

[90AWDTalon]

Has anyone ever heard of a vgt turbo? My brother has a f-250 deisel that modded pretty heavily. And if his vgt is unlpug the turbo spools normally, with the lag and no control over the boost level because the vgt acts as the boost controller/ wastegate aswell. But with it plugged in he can make 1-2 psi at idle and can spool 38 psi instantly as soon as he steps on the gas..... Might wanna look at this i dont totally understand the vgt stuff but i know what happend when it was plugged in and not....

My understanding is that those turbos have variable ar. The ar is small at low engine speeds and increases as rpm's increase. It would be like haveing a turbine housing that could vary from 4cm to 12cm to have lightning fast spool and superior top end flow.

 

[tstkl]

I swear a saw a webpage of a line of these turbos made by Garrett... I can't seem to find it but I will keep looking.

thats ### garrett IS working on it, but they haven't come out yet. This explains why you haven't seen them on a dsm yet, they don't exist yet. I read that same page too, but it said they are working on making it. why didn't you post this when you first read it? rather than coming back now that your memory is shot.

 

[rowlex]

anti-lag was invented for a reason

 

[LA97GST]

VGT is know as a Variable Geometery Turbocharger. Gale Banks uses them on all of his diesel engines. I don't know much about them and don't really care to research right now. Trucks taught me this hehe. Hurray for Stacey!

 

[No_Skillz]

thats ### garrett IS working on it, but they haven't come out yet. This explains why you haven't seen them on a dsm yet, they don't exist yet. I read that same page too, but it said they are working on making it. why didn't you post this when you first read it? rather than coming back now that your memory is shot.

Cause I'm drunk. But I swear I saw pictures too.

 

[GVR4592]

VNT turbo's have been around for decades. Chrysler used them in the 80's. Diesel's use them today, I think porsche is using them. They are on Garrett's website.

http://www.honeywell.com/sites/ts/t...GMKQK64U00ACROYP858GKIH564VY0812155701757.htm

 

[tstkl]

Cause I'm drunk. But I swear I saw pictures too.

touche

 

[~laser_craver~]

Yes hes correct the VGT does change at the different rpms to keep the turbo efficient.... Theres little electirc motors that close this like flapper things that redirect exhaust flow to change it... Its complicated ill try to get some pics....