No Clutch Disengagement After Rebuild

[jukematt]

Sorry this is long but wanted to provide as much info as you may need.

Well, after spending all day today searching and reading threads, I decided to post. In January, my car spun a rod bearing so I fully disassembled it, got a new crank that was machined and got oversize bearings, new piston rings, etc. Fully rebuilt stock since I didn't have money for upgraded internals, unfortunately. Process was slow but I finally got my engine back in my 99 GSX as of about two weeks ago now.

To the problem: She shifts pretty smooth into all gears when not running. No difference whether the clutch is pushed in or not. When running, she absolutely refuses to go into gear. If I attempt to force, she grinds. I checked the clutch slave cylinder and looked a bit wet under the boot so I replaced it, master cylinder is not leaking at all so it must be fine (it was also replaced two-three years ago by me). I adjusted the rod according to Jack's transmissions videos but didn't really require much since I already had it adjusted when I replaced the master cylinder last time.

Someone mentioned to me that I may have put the clutch disc in backward but I had never dropped the transmission with it in the car so I asked a couple of questions about it in my other thread: [RESOLVED] Clutch Disc Backward, Transmission drop?

Disc was correct but turned out the TOB clip was off but I put it back on right and still same issue. Fork sits slightly to the drivers side like it should so I shouldn't have to do anything with getting a new fulcrum, shimming, or whatever. Just to test, however, I put a little socket between the rod and fork to simulate an extended rod. It made the clutch feel stiffer but that's it. Still same issue. Clutch was also replaced last summer with an ACT 2100. XACT lightweight flywheel was in there from previous owner and was the step was checked correctly when new clutch was installed by a DSM friend of a friend. I reused the same clutch when I put it all back together.

I have no idea what could cause this. My shifting was fine before the rebuild but now it isn't. Any help would be appreciated. School starts in a week and a half and right now I have no idea how I'm getting there.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Air in the line or over extending the pressure plate fingers would be my guess.

 

[jukematt]

Air in the line or over extending the pressure plate fingers would be my guess.

I have bled the system countless times but what do you mean by over extending the pressure plate fingers?

EDIT: Also forgot to mention that only 1st will try and grind if I were to force it, the other gears just simply won't even go far enough to grind. I noticed my RPMs drop slightly if trying to pull into 2nd.

 

[JackM]

One thing that comes to mind is someone may have damaged the disk when removing and/or installing it. If the weight of the trans is on the disk before you torque the bolts from the trans to the engine, then the clutch disk can easily be bent. If it's not straight, it will always drag and give you the problems you describe.

I hate to say it, but the trans needs to be pulled and the clutch needs to be looked over very closely. I'd be willing to bet the disk is damaged. You would be surprised at how little pressure it takes to damage a disk.

Jack

 

[jukematt]

One thing that comes to mind is someone may have damaged the disk when removing and/or installing it. If the weight of the trans is on the disk before you torque the bolts from the trans to the engine, then the clutch disk can easily be bent. If it's not straight, it will always drag and give you the problems you describe.

I hate to say it, but the trans needs to be pulled and the clutch needs to be looked over very closely. I'd be willing to bet the disk is damaged. You would be surprised at how little pressure it takes to damage a disk.

Jack

Oh man I hope that is not it. I don't have money for replacement clutch parts.

Something I did notice which I forgot to post up here. Reading the Haynes manual, it says to tighten the PP only finger tight. That's what I did but I also noticed the PP had a small gap between it and the flywheel. Is this normal? I can't find any pics I might have taken of it when disassembling so I don't know if it is right. You can see this gap in the pics when I dropped my trans a couple of days ago.

 

[JackM]

, that's totally wrong. The bolts have a torque value. I would trash the generic manual you have and get the factory manual. That's the problem.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Huge problem!!! 22-24ft lbs with blue loctite. Looks like you found your problem. Torque in a star pattern.

 

[jukematt]

Oh wow OK. I know I have heard to not tighten them too much or it can warp the PP and it won't work. And loctite too? I have red that I used throughout the build, but get some blue then?

Also, the gap wouldn't close by pressing on the PP. So I have the torque wrong but the gap is still normal right?

 

[mattasi]

That pressure plate needs to sit flush to the flywheel with no gap. It is normal to not be able to push the pressure plate fully onto the flywheel by hand, when you torque the bolts in the proper order (star pattern) then there will be no gap.

x2 on throwing away the manual that says to hand tighten them

I used red loctite on mine, probably overkill but it is also what I had on hand.

New bolts with new lock washers wouldn't hurt either.

 

[herms99gst]

Red loctite is used only if you never want to take it apart again. Lol, your actually suppose to heat it up to remove whatever you used ir on. And you need to tighten the pressure plate bolts more than finger tight. You need the fingers to force themselves against the clutch disk. And they need to be tightend down in a cross pattern like mentioned before. And you didnt disconnect ANY hydraulic lines dis you? If so you can plan on replacing the salave cylinder and clutch cylinder.

 

[mattasi]

Red loctite is used only if you never want to take it apart again.

I know, but I have never had a problem taking the bolts back out, just a quick snap and they come right out. Blue would be better thought I agree.

 

[jukematt]

Alright and 22-24 ft-lbs? I also have the FSM on PDF and I couldn't find a torque value on internal clutch components. Just on external components like the slave cylinder and such.

Man I'm not looking forward to removing that passenger axle again. I could barely get it out last time by putting a screw clamp around it and using a pry bar and hammer.

 

[mattasi]

The service manual says 14 ftlbs

Page = 21B-5

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Thanks Matt, my bad on the torque spec. That makes sense given that I use a 20ft lb wrench with a 6" extension. I also noticed how much space there is between the spacer plate and the block... Might want to double check the hardware there.

 

[jukematt]

The service manual says 14 ftlbs

Page = 21B-5

Ah OK I see it now, thanks!

 

[jukematt]

That was it! Thank you all! I tightened down the bolts and she worked! Took her out on a break-in run this evening. Man it was nice being behind the wheel of my DSM again after eight months.