New to tuning. How am I doing?

[phunny]

Well first off I got my coolant temps down to 206 MAX. Normally run at 200 now .
Here's how I did it just FYI:
1. Installed a backflush kit from walmart $4.
2. Used flush and flushed radiator $5.
3. Installed 180/thermostat $7
4. Refilled with 1bottle redline water wetter($8) and distilled water
(will be adding about 1.5 quarts of antifreeze soon)
5. Installed a homemade front scoop for the radiator($Free)

Now even with my fans off and the A/C blasting I don't go over 206degrees.

Back on topic, here's a log after I've been changing things, gimmie input .
I also did a run from 1st to 5th gear with almost zero knock(accidently deleted it).

 

[Black_Bullet]

Wish I could open the link but I dont like opening links on this computer.
Well you've already stated coolant temps, I also run the 180 deg thermostat, and I made a sheet metal panel under my fmic and radiator, to keep airflow into the radiator, and I also only run distilled water w/ a full bottle of redline water wetter and my coolant temps average about 190-200degs which is exactly were you want to be no higher or lower.

I looked at your profile and I run a 16g also. For my setup Ive also found that I make good power by running about 25psi with conservative timing, and as the boost starts to fall off on the 16g, then I start throwing aggressive timing at it. ( Like up to 19-20deg by 7k which is decent for 93 octane.) and I stick with a target AFR of between 11.2-11.3 but sometimes the gm maft changes the afr a few points due to different weather.

If you dont have a CAI, ( cold air intake ) you should try it... I logged about a 30 deg intake temp drop and the 16g held to redline a little better; especially ever since installing cams were the turbo likes to drop off in boost up top due to a greater airflow demand from the motor.

Holding as much boost as possible to redline is crucial in making the 16g perform at its best;
A monster fmic would help a lot, and having zero boost leaks is also crucial. Idk how much boost your running though?

If i had an idea of what your AFR is thru WOT and a quick layout of your knock counts and timing in that log I could respond to your questions a little better but srry i cant see them.

Hope any of that info helps?

 

[1992awdlaser]

What did you have your boost set to?

 

[Hiitman]

Looks pretty good. I'd say your boosting 17-18lbs right? I'd make that pre-spool curve a little less aggresive and maybe richen it up to about 11.2:1. 11.5-11.6:1 is fairly lean and richening it up will allow you to add more boost/timing. Also, build yourself a cold air intake. Another one of those cheap yet effective upgrades

 

[phunny]

Thanks for the reply. I took the timing down 2 degrees from 500-3000 today. I just made the cold air intake, intake temps are really down.

BTW, how much does road noise affect knock?

 

[Black_Bullet]

Thanks for the reply. I took the timing down 2 degrees from 500-3000 today. I just made the cold air intake, intake temps are really down.

BTW, how much does road noise affect knock?

Show pics of how you did your CAI.
Did you do it by just making a heat shielding around it or did you actually drop it in the fender well to make a true CAI.

( Mines is in the fenderwell, and thats were I noticed the 30deg temp drop's that I stated earlier.)

Also, Ive never heard of road noise affecting knock, unless you have cars exploding next to you or something. Ive heard of waste gate dump's causing knock though but thats about it.

 

[phunny]

I ran in down through the fender.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

What did you have your boost set to?

it'd be prudent to give us this info Also, whats up with the crazy timing table? I would be a lot more conservative before delving into that many adjustments. Have you done your homework on dsmlink? I see that you've calibrated your airflow tables a bit, what method are you using?

According to your wideband reading, you are running 11.6:1, what does your actual UEGO gauge read?

 

[Black_Bullet]

Id tune it a little richer more like 11.2 ish and see if you can get more timing advance or boost instead.
Boost generally makes the most power, then increasing timing advance , so focas on getting the most out of those two factors of the tune.

As far as cold air intakes, this thread may have some useful information for you.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/298216-cold-air-intake-project.html

 

[1992awdlaser]

I would lower the global setting to bring the ltft's closer to zero. Try -57%.

 

[phunny]

My boost is 16lbs holding rock steady. The dsmlink WB is exactly 1 above the actual reading.

 

[turbosax2]

You need to lower your airlfow sliders a little so they match what your boost gauge reads.
http://jeffgst.com/gmafcalibration1.html
http://jeffgst.com/boostestcurve.html

I would lower the timing 4500+ down a few clicks so you can go leaner to get the afr where you want it. I woud recommend in the 10.8-11.0:1 range. Then once you get the afr right you can go back and add timing until it knocks, then back the timing off so there is no knock. You can also try adding some timing for 3500-4000 to help spool up time.

 

[phunny]

Since I don't have a MAFT or a 5Bar does that apply to me?

 

[1992awdlaser]

Yes. You can make your factory maf read more accurate by doing this.

 

[turboglenn]

Your timing able does lok a little nutty to me. Why have so much advance and then have to retard past stock a lot at 6k only to then start trying to build more timing by redline. Bring them all doen to maybe 1 or 2 ticks above stock at the most and start there. If you start getting knock at say 6500, then take a degree or 2 out there and in the RPM range before it and re-log the run.

YOuhonestly should back your timing down to stock or lower while tuning the AFR's , then advance timing up as you can afterwards to take full advantage of the air/fuel coming in. The AFR's will be the same if you're tuning with 10 or 18 degrees of timing (there is an exception if you're WAY off on timing it can give weird readings on AFR , don't ask me why cause i dont' know )

 

[Black_Bullet]

You can also try adding some timing for 3500-4000 to help spool up time.

I thought retarding timing increased spool ?
Less timing would be less power though.

OP- tuneing a little less timing down low in your rpms is a good idea though because down low around torque peak is the worst place to knock and once you start knocking it can likely carry thru the whole pull, and if bad enough, into the next gear.... On my car I can actually get away with more overall advance to redline just by going a lot softer with the timing down low... Like sub 5200rpms or so.

 

[phunny]

Your timing able does lok a little nutty to me. Why have so much advance and then have to retard past stock a lot at 6k only to then start trying to build more timing by redline. Bring them all doen to maybe 1 or 2 ticks above stock at the most and start there. If you start getting knock at say 6500, then take a degree or 2 out there and in the RPM range before it and re-log the run.

YOuhonestly should back your timing down to stock or lower while tuning the AFR's , then advance timing up as you can afterwards to take full advantage of the air/fuel coming in. The AFR's will be the same if you're tuning with 10 or 18 degrees of timing (there is an exception if you're WAY off on timing it can give weird readings on AFR , don't ask me why cause i dont' know )

When you say "stock" timing advance, would that be just zeroing my timing sliders?

 

[turboglenn]

Yea, zero them out or even take a few degrees out (below the "0" line) while tuning the AFR's. ONce the fuel is tuned, then start adding timing a few clicks at a time until you see some knock (this is the easy DSm standby way to tune) Then if you see knock, back the timing off in that area a degree or two at a time until you can pull through a couple gears without any detonation.

 

[turboglenn]

I thought retarding timing increased spool ?
Less timing would be less power though.

OP- tuneing a little less timing down low in your rpms is a good idea though because down low around torque peak is the worst place to knock and once you start knocking it can likely carry thru the whole pull, and if bad enough, into the next gear.... On my car I can actually get away with more overall advance to redline just by going a lot softer with the timing down low... Like sub 5200rpms or so.

And yes, to increase spool you retard timing and add fuel to make more of the burn take place while the valve is open (similar to anti-lag but to a lesser degree). If you advance timing all of the burn is going to take place in the combustion chamber before teh valve opens and only leave you the spent gasses for spooling (like normal) By retarding it you create a "blow torch" type effect out of the exhaust valve and use the energy to spool instead of using all of it to drive te piston down and be transfered to teh crank then transmission.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Retarding timing will make it spool faster. It does this because more of the heat from the power stroke goes into the exhaust manifold. I will try to explain each.

When timing is advanced the spark ignites the air/fuel mixture at a sooner point. This gives the mixture more time to burn in the cylinder. Most of the heat from this will be absorbed by the engine itself. The reason this makes more power is because the mixture has a longer time to burn before the piston reaches tdc. Since it has more time to burn it is going to make the pressure pushing down greater. This is where the exrta power comes from. More pressure downwards when the piston is at tdc. This is also why advancing timing can create knock or pre-ignition.

Retarding the timing makes the mixture start to burn closer to tdc. This will make less power since the mixture has less time to expand before the piston reaches tdc. Retarding will cause some of the mixture to be burning when the piston is moving down and when moving up on the exhaust stroke. Since the mixture burns later the heat has less time to be absorbed by the engine and as a result it will go into the exhaust manifold which will help spool the turbo. The mixture burning during the exhaust stroke also causes the turbo to spool sooner since the mixture is burning with the exhaust valves open. This is how antilag works, it retards timing so the mixture is burning when the exhaust valve is open.

If you don't understand i will try to make it clearer for you.

 

[phunny]

Makes perfect sense. Would one of you post a log for us to reference? Like JeffGST says, "A Log is worth 1000 words."

 

[turbosax2]

Woops, sorry about that Time to go change my brothers tune because we were advancing timing in the low rpms.

 

[phunny]

Well I zero'd the airflow then zero'd the timing and even pull 2 more degrees from 5k and up. I didn't get to do the 250hz tune but I'll get that later. Anyway, to the good stuff, I did about 12 3rd gear pulls and here's what I have. I'm proud, things are looking alot better and it's pulling hard. Boostest is pretty much dead on with actual boost(18psi). As always, input welcome.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Because of the coolant temp the ecu is pulling 1* of timing. So, if you get that down your car will be a little quicker.

 

[phunny]

Yeah, you're right, that was my last run after a ton of runs. Thinking of getting 2 slimlines later on.