New to the DSM world, need a little help

[05gt Guru]

I just picked up an almost stock 91 GSX with 81kmiles, 5 speed. What mods would you do to make the car a 300-350whp that is also somewhat reliable. Its not a DD but i would like to drive it often. Also what are the biggest problems i would have with this car in terms of reliability. I have had many fast cars that i have built so labor is free for me . 517rwhp supra, 435rwhp trans am(with 100shot on top of that), 410rwhp 79 malibu, 380rwhp 96 formula. And my current DD the 05 legacy put down a respectable 257awhp Thanks

 

[rayrayx11]

under TECH at the top click and go to upgrade paths. that'll tell you what you want.

 

[05gt Guru]

Thanks

 

[Gamble97]

I just picked up an almost stock 91 GSX with 81kmiles, 5 speed. What mods would you do to make the car a 300-350whp that is also somewhat reliable. Its not a DD but i would like to drive it often. Also what are the biggest problems i would have with this car in terms of reliability. I have had many fast cars that i have built so labor is free for me . 517rwhp supra, 435rwhp trans am(with 100shot on top of that), 410rwhp 79 malibu, 380rwhp 96 formula. And my current DD the 05 legacy put down a respectable 257awhp Thanks

First off I would do maintenance. (timing belt, water pump, brakes, fuel filter, plugs (ngk bpr7es, wires.
If your going to do a timing belt and water pump it might be worth it to just slap some cams in at the same time.
Everything depends on a budget. Some basics to start with:
Walbro 190 fuel pump and install kit
small 16g, big 16g, or evoIII 16g, or bigger like 50trim.
650cc injectors.
Something to tune with, safc or dsmlink
2g maf
front mount intercooler
Crushed 1g bov
2g or evoIII turbo manifold or fp manifold
2g, evoIII or aftermarket o2 housing
3inch turbo back.



These are the common mods that most people have and you can put down some good numbers and fast times.

Extremepsi.com is by far the best vendor (IMO) for parts
Dejontool.com is good as well, priced a little high though.
Stmdsm.com has good prices as well

 

[05gt Guru]

The stock bottom end in a 91 can handle 300-400 crank hp?

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

The stock bottom end in a 91 can handle 300-400 crank hp?

Daily driven 300 to 400 crank horsepower is no sweat. Weekend warriors can also handle 400, 450 or you'll even see crazy people pushing 500 crank horse. It's all in the tuning and engine management.

 

[05gt Guru]

Yes tuning plays a big part, i have tuned heavily modded cars before. You can have the best tune in the world that doesnt mean you can run 1000hp on stock internals . Which is why i was asking what point you would say its not reliable anymore to put more hp on the stock internals. 400crank hp?

 

[Dsmj89]

Like gamble said, get all your maintenance taken care of completely. After that, get yourself a wideband, boost gauge, and oil pressure gauge.
Then proceed to fuel mods, if your goals are 300'ish, look no bigger than a set of 650cc's and a walbro 190 should be more than enough. As for a turbo, an evo3 16g is a hard to beat turbo for its streetability and power capabilities.

 

[05gt Guru]

what is a cheap yet good way to tune these cars. Is the 91 ecu tunable or will i need some sort of piggyback system and if so how much do these piggy backs go for? Thanks

 

[Gamble97]

what is a cheap yet good way to tune these cars. Is the 91 ecu tunable or will i need some sort of piggyback system and if so how much do these piggy backs go for? Thanks

Safc or safcII. You can get a used one for $100-$185
Yes the stock bottom end can handle lots of power. There was just a thread on dsmlink that someone had 700hp on stock 2g 7bolt motor. Not sure how long it lasted though.

 

[Dsmj89]

You don't need a piggyback, an safc or safc2 will be suffice at this point for your hp goal. Just make sure you have all your fuel mods in and you will be ok. My friend that has a talon used to have an srt4 and was running a gt40 with an safc and ran just fine. Dynoed in low 400's.

 

[Gamble97]

Here are some safc's on ebay.
eBay Motors: apexi safcII safc 2 240sx honda mitsubishi (item 260369793859 end time Mar-05-09 18:14:41 PST)
eBay Motors: Apexi Safc 2 (3 DAY AUTION /NO RESERVE BID NOW) (item 290299655881 end time Mar-03-09 21:14:20 PST)
eBay Motors: apexi safc (item 180333147578 end time Mar-06-09 14:07:29 PST)
eBay Motors: Apexi safc super air flow converter (item 140304642198 end time Mar-07-09 13:12:16 PST)

FP manifold, get it before the price goes back up. It was $299, it's $199 while supplies last.
Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP DSM Race Manifold

Inexpensive down pipe:
http://stores.punishment-racing.com/-strse-71/Punishment-Racing-3"-downpipe/Detail.bok

Good intercooler:
Talon/Eclipse 1G 8inch Short Route Street Kit

Great mbc for cheap:
JoePMBC.com.. Performance Products for Turbo Cars.
Get the XZ mbc

2nd gen maf plug
eBay Motors: MAF PLUG for 2g MAS in 1g DSM Eclipse Talon Galant VR4 (item 110357579719 end time Mar-06-09 18:31:59 PST)

2nd gen maf, intake, filter
eBay Motors: Injen Intake MAF and Filter Eclipse DSM 2G recirculate (item 110356280962 end time Mar-03-09 18:20:50 PST)

Fuel pump and install kit:
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Walbro 190 LPH with Install Kit: Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-94 AWD

FIC 650cc injectors:
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - FIC 650cc Ball-Style Injectors : Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99

EvoIII 16g turbo
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Mitsubishi TD05H "EVO III Big" 16G

This should be more than enough to get you started.

 

[05gt Guru]

I have a friend who has a 20g he just got back for mthe shop, i believe he was having it ported or coated or something, it has no miles on the rebuild , anyway what would be needed to run a 20g safely and what kinda power would i expect to get on it. I only ask because he said he would trade me some cbr parts that i dont need for it. Would 650cc and a 190 pump be enough to keep this thing happy?

Thanks for the links

 

[BulletShiftTSi]

the weakest point on the bottomend on a 6 bolt is the pistons then second is the rods but the stock crank can hold almost anything you will ever throw at it up in the 900hp+ i've seen people put over 1000hp on the oem crank!

272/264 cams for a 16g 272/272 on anything bigger, if your going with the 16g just get the evo III 16g, 255 fuel pump with the rewire, front mount intercooler hard piped, blow off valve, tune up like belts and plugs etc, 650cc+ injectors, aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, safc or dsm link, a heavy foot and let the fun begin.

gl

 

[Gamble97]

the weakest point on the bottomend on a 6 bolt is the pistons then second is the rods but the stock crank can hold almost anything you will ever throw at it up in the 900hp+ i've seen people put over 1000hp on the oem crank!

272/264 cams for a 16g 272/272 on anything bigger, if your going with the 16g just get the evo III 16g, 255 fuel pump with the rewire, front mount intercooler hard piped, blow off valve, tune up like belts and plugs etc, 650cc+ injectors, aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, safc or dsm link, a heavy foot and let the fun begin.

gl

The evoIII turbo and big 16g turbo are so damn similar it really doesn't matter, the difference is the evoIII one flows like 25cfm more. I would just get one ported with at 34mm flapper and NOT have it clipped.
His stock bov will be just fine if he does the dodge garage mod or crushes it.
Nothing bigger than 650s are really needed and a walbro 190 with stock wiring will be fine. The rewire won't hurt so for $20 it's not a bad deal, but my car is putting out over 400hp, and flowing 51lb/min at 24psi on pump gas and I'm not rewired and I have 0 problems.
If he stays with a walbro190 he doesn't have to waste his money on a fuel pressure regulator since he can get away with using the stock one.
The 20g will be fine, with the same mods listed above.

If you want some easy power (not cheap though) I suggest a magnus or jmf smim (sheet metal intake manifold), that is an easy 30+ hp depending on mods. However you will have to take off your emissions stuff, and get a honda battery or some other type of slim battery or relocate your battery.

 

[jrohner]

You don't need a piggyback, an safc or safc2 will be suffice at this point for your hp goal. Just make sure you have all your fuel mods in and you will be ok. My friend that has a talon used to have an srt4 and was running a gt40 with an safc and ran just fine. Dynoed in low 400's.

What do you think a piggyback is? An AFC IS a piggyback; piggyback means it screws with data before it gets to the ECU to trick the ECU.

The most cost-effective tuning solution is EPROM tuning. Every 91 DSM I've had has had an EPROM ECU, so you might be in luck there. A chip burner is $85, or if you want to do realtime tuning (tune with the car running) an EPROM Emulator is $175. You use a program called Tunerpro (Tunerpro RT for realtime editing); it works great and you change the actual maps in the ECU (fuel, ignition timing, etc) -- you don't fudge the stock maps with offset percentages or 2D maps, you have full control of the 3D maps (RPM and Load) that the ECU is going by to run your car. If you are uncomfortable doing the first tune to a chip, you can buy a chip from dsmchips and then fine tune it yourself with Tunerpro and the chip burner or emulator.

 

[jeremylee_7]

The most popular EPROM tuning solution for DSM's is ECMlink (formally dsmlink) which gives you full control over timing and fuel maps, plus give you a datalogger and several other features. It is a little more costly the s-afc but at least you are not lying to your ecu and you can tune timing as well as fuel. ECMTuning, Inc..

To check if your ecu is an eprom just open it up (4 screws) and look for this chip.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[nyTalonTsi]

What these guys said.

 

[sLiCRiC911]

Gamble97 pretty much said it all that you really need.. ill say follow those steps you'll be good to go

 

[BulletShiftTSi]

I suggested the evo III because if he can find one they are about the same price and might as well get that lil extra if you can. I suggested the 255lph pump and afpr in case he decided to ever want more power he doesn't have to do it twice. the same with the blow off valve plus it sounds better in my opinion.

My mod list was a suggestion and a kind of safe barrier If or i should say when he is looking for more power because as we can all agree on the fact that its very addicting and by the list of the op's other cars he might want more later. I've seen too many people have to do work and spend money twice on the same things because they didn't think about there future goals after there current set up. Just really think it out and stick with it. "think twice buy once" as much as possible.

What ever you decide to do I wish you good luck and happy building welcome to dsmtuners and the dsm community in general there is a lot of good people in this community and so much knowledge it will make your head spin.

again good luck let us know how it turns out!

 

[smokeyjpn221]

I just picked up an almost stock 91 GSX with 81kmiles, 5 speed. What mods would you do to make the car a 300-350whp that is also somewhat reliable. Its not a DD but i would like to drive it often. Also what are the biggest problems i would have with this car in terms of reliability. I have had many fast cars that i have built so labor is free for me . 517rwhp supra, 435rwhp trans am(with 100shot on top of that), 410rwhp 79 malibu, 380rwhp 96 formula. And my current DD the 05 legacy put down a respectable 257awhp Thanks

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/326519-bigger-injectors.html

this will help a lot

 

[05gt Guru]

What do you think a piggyback is? An AFC IS a piggyback; piggyback means it screws with data before it gets to the ECU to trick the ECU.

The most cost-effective tuning solution is EPROM tuning. Every 91 DSM I've had has had an EPROM ECU, so you might be in luck there. A chip burner is $85, or if you want to do realtime tuning (tune with the car running) an EPROM Emulator is $175. You use a program called Tunerpro (Tunerpro RT for realtime editing); it works great and you change the actual maps in the ECU (fuel, ignition timing, etc) -- you don't fudge the stock maps with offset percentages or 2D maps, you have full control of the 3D maps (RPM and Load) that the ECU is going by to run your car. If you are uncomfortable doing the first tune to a chip, you can buy a chip from dsmchips and then fine tune it yourself with Tunerpro and the chip burner or emulator.

Do you use a laptop or does it have its own screen/system. I tuned my legacy and a couple of friends ls1 cars with my laptop and a cable. So i have a basic understanding on how to work with tunes.

 

[Gamble97]

If you look at my post with all the links you will see the safc has it's own screen. No laptop needed.

 

[mindset]

I just picked up an almost stock 91 GSX with 81kmiles, 5 speed. What mods would you do to make the car a 300-350whp that is also somewhat reliable. Its not a DD but i would like to drive it often. Also what are the biggest problems i would have with this car in terms of reliability. I have had many fast cars that i have built so labor is free for me . 517rwhp supra, 435rwhp trans am(with 100shot on top of that), 410rwhp 79 malibu, 380rwhp 96 formula. And my current DD the 05 legacy put down a respectable 257awhp Thanks

I can tell you right now with all of your knowledge you're going to want to go all out on this awd. You'll be surprised with the numbers these motors put out.

 

[DSMReviver]

I just picked up an almost stock 91 GSX with 81kmiles, 5 speed. What mods would you do to make the car a 300-350whp that is also somewhat reliable. Its not a DD but i would like to drive it often. Also what are the biggest problems i would have with this car in terms of reliability. I have had many fast cars that i have built so labor is free for me . 517rwhp supra, 435rwhp trans am(with 100shot on top of that), 410rwhp 79 malibu, 380rwhp 96 formula. And my current DD the 05 legacy put down a respectable 257awhp Thanks

One more thing on top of all the deliciously appealing mods is that u might want to swap in 2g 4bolt rear end. Read all about it, I got one and is viscous LSD 4 bolt. Send me the pm if interested.