Need valve springs and retainer help, can't decide

[dustin_8907]

I was wanting some good valve springs and retainers for my car that aren't too expensive. I was looking at Bc1100. Anybody use these with positive feedback or is there a better choice. I have bc 272 cams if that helps. Thanks

 

[keltalon]

I was wanting some good valve springs and retainers for my car that aren't too expensive. I was looking at Bc1100. Anybody use these with positive feedback or is there a better choice. I have bc 272 cams if that helps. Thanks

Yeah if you are using the BC272 cams then for your budget use their BC1100 springs. they are excellent choice for those cams

 

[dustin_8907]

Yeah if you are using the BC272 cams then for your budget use their BC1100 springs. they are excellent choice for those cams

Okay sweet, I'm just trying to piece together my car that's being shipped to me. It only lacks springs, retainers, injectors and a better tune. Lol thanks for the help. Ordering them soon. Is extremepsi.com a good company to order from? Their prices seem fair. Thanks for the help

 

[agentorange313]

I was wanting some good valve springs and retainers for my car that aren't too expensive. I was looking at Bc1100. Anybody use these with positive feedback or is there a better choice. I have bc 272 cams if that helps. Thanks

You get what you pay for, and quality doesn't come cheap, with that said:

Manley springs are a great budget spring also. They can use stock retainers and cost about 80 for 16 of them. They do come with retainers but they are more than the springs, but damn do they weigh almost nothing compared to the stock retainers.

If the future, you can check the specs of your cam gear. Compare the those specs to the specs of the springs you are buying and see if they will be sufficient.

Here is some more info on spring raters of Manley vs stock and evo.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...2-evo-viii-stock-dsm-manley-brian-crower.html

 

[dustin_8907]

You get what you pay for, and quality doesn't come cheap, with that said:

Manley springs are a great budget spring also. They can use stock retainers and cost about 80 for 16 of them. They do come with retainers but they are more than the springs, but damn do they weigh almost nothing compared to the stock retainers.

If the future, you can check the specs of your cam gear. Compare the those specs to the specs of the springs you are buying and see if they will be sufficient.

Here is some more info on spring raters of Manley vs stock and evo.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...2-evo-viii-stock-dsm-manley-brian-crower.html

Okay so I think I want to get the Manley springs and use the stock retainers and see how they do... I'm on a budget build but can someone enlighten me if they have used bc272's and Manley springs. Thanks oh and will the Manley springs work well with the bc 272 I really didn't understand the link too much

 

[keltalon]

Okay sweet, I'm just trying to piece together my car that's being shipped to me. It only lacks springs, retainers, injectors and a better tune. Lol thanks for the help. Ordering them soon. Is extremepsi.com a good company to order from? Their prices seem fair. Thanks for the help

Yeah extreme psi is one of the best companies to order from. Stuff always are shipped ontime and arrive like clockwork!

 

[J_HEATH]

also, if you're on a budget you can run Evo 8 springs and retainers. You could get a set of springs and retainers for $40-$80, the retainers are super light and the springs are a lot stronger than the stock 1G & 2G springs. I ran them with my old setup with Comp 272's and never had an issue.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/367728-evo-valve-springs-limitations.html

Also,

Do a quick search on BC 272's. You may find that they aren't the best cams or even decent cams for DSM's. I talked to Lucas English about them when I first got my DSM because I "WAS" doing a budget build and bought new BC 272's and BC springs and retainers. Lucas informed me that they have seen issues of the retainers not being machined perfectly and actually seen issues of the rockers making contact with retianers causing them to pop off the valve. Also the BC 272 cams have been dyno tested and have shown minimal gains over stock cams or even a loss.

After finding all of that out I sold them and got Comp cams and stock EVO 8 springs & retainers. Also if you can find some Evo 8 rockers for cheap get them, they will work in your DSM head and they are lighter than the OEM DSM rockers.

 

[keltalon]

also, if you're on a budget you can run Evo 8 springs and retainers. You could get a set of springs and retainers for $40-$80, the retainers are super light and the springs are a lot stronger than the stock 1G & 2G springs. I ran them with my old setup with Comp 272's and never had an issue.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/367728-evo-valve-springs-limitations.html

Also,

Do a quick search on BC 272's. You may find that they aren't the best cams or even decent cams for DSM's. I talked to Lucas English about them when I first got my DSM because I "WAS" doing a budget build and bought new BC 272's and BC springs and retainers. Lucas informed me that they have seen issues of the retainers not being machined perfectly and actually seen issues of the rockers making contact with retianers causing them to pop off the valve. Also the BC 272 cams have been dyno tested and have shown minimal gains over stock cams or even a loss.

.

I agree on the fact that the evo 8 springs will be a nice bugeted choice over any other spring and as was stated can be purchased pretty cheap. But as for the statement that the bc272 cams made a minimum gain over stock cams is totally false information and need to be corrected that is why I am posting. I test several cam a while back in a cam test thread and I must say I was so impressed with the bc 272 that at the end of the test this in the cam That I ran for a long time. They have the best street manners of any cam I had ran. If you look at the dyno sheet below its a comparison of a bc272 vs hks264 this is what won me over was the fact the cams made the same drivable power down low but the bc272 shined up top at this point I was sold. Also richard33 ran this 10 second pass using the bc272.

I often come across threads bashing bc cams and most of the time its by people who have never ran the cams if they had they will feel differently. Keep those cam until you want to make more than 600whp. well richard33 dynoed 686 with them!

 

[keltalon]

dyno sheet and video of richard33 10sec pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-RyEKDU38k

 

[keltalon]

Go to post #78 it has the dyno sheet of the bc272 vs Hks264

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...t-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams-3.html

 

[agentorange313]

also, if you're on a budget you can run Evo 8 springs and retainers. You could get a set of springs and retainers for $40-$80, the retainers are super light and the springs are a lot stronger than the stock 1G & 2G springs. I ran them with my old setup with Comp 272's and never had an issue.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/367728-evo-valve-springs-limitations.html

Also,

please dont spread misinformation. They are not stronger. They may be stronger since they are new, or newer, compared to 20+ years on DSM single springs.

OP if you follow the links in my post, there is data that proves what springs are the best bang for your buck. If you dont understand what I posted, then its time to start reading up on cams and springs.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/221200-cam-basics.html

 

[dustin_8907]

I've decided to get the Manley springs and reuse the stock retainers and seats. Hopefully they do well with my bc 272 cams 😁

 

[bastarddsm]

Yeah if you are using the BC272 cams then for your budget use their BC1100 springs. they are excellent choice for those cams

Be advised that you cannot just drop these in. You need to check your installed height, and shim as necessary to get these to the specified height. I wanna say I have seen about 1.550" on my heads, so you'd need to shim bc1100's like .050". I would also have the springs checked to make sure that they have the pressure they claim at the specified installed height. I had a set of bc's, crowers, and manley singles, and they all were just a bit under the spec. The rate was right, but they needed to be installed about another .015" tighter than specified. There is nothing wrong with this, just something you need to be aware of, because installing them at stock dsm height could result in less than stock seat pressure.

also, if you're on a budget you can run Evo 8 springs and retainers. You could get a set of springs and retainers for $40-$80, the retainers are super light and the springs are a lot stronger than the stock 1G & 2G springs. I ran them with my old setup with Comp 272's and never had an issue. After finding all of that out I sold them and got Comp cams and stock EVO 8 springs & retainers. Also if you can find some Evo 8 rockers for cheap get them, they will work in your DSM head and they are lighter than the OEM DSM rockers.

I would not run the evo8 springs and retainers. On a 1g head you will run into retainer to seal clearance on very mild cams. My dks272 had about .020" interference and knocked all the seals out after a few miles. Also they are lighter springs than a good stock dsm spring. That is because they were designed for a sodium filled exhuast valve and a hollow stem intake valve, both make the evo valves lighter than a dsm valve, additionally the evo rockers are lighter too. I went from evo8 springs to stock dsm springs and picked up about 2lbs/min because I was floating valves.

 

[J_HEATH]

I'm running all Evo 8 valve train in my DSM and have multiple low 7 second high 6 second passes in the 1/8 mile on them using comp 272 cams. I'm running new stock OEM valves, and I shift my DSM between 7-8k rpms. I've never had an issue with this setup, as I was told about this by Jeff Bush who also ran this is his budget beater auto DSM that he had built and sold. So I'd say its safe to say that there is nothing wrong with it since its a proven setup. I understand someone did a test with a spring rate tester, but the proof is here that it works.

Also I was told about the BC springs & retainers, and cams being junk as far as compared to other brands by companies that dyno and track test products. English Racing as well as AMS performance, I didn't buy cams or springs & retainers from either company. This was simply their statement on products when I asked about them. Is it coincidental that both companies told me the samething about a brand? No, this is from their research and testing of products.

Here is AMS dyno session of testing CAMS

Ams Evo Cam Test - evolutionm.net

As I stated and was told by others, to get any gains out of the BC cams, adjustable cam gears had to be adjusted. I'm not saying your buddy or whoever didn't gain power with them, or that he didn't run a 10 second pass with them. I simply stating that their are better cams out there with the same claimed duration (272) that will make more power.

 

[keltalon]

I'm running all Evo 8 valve train in my DSM and have multiple low 7 second high 6 second passes in the 1/8 mile on them using comp 272 cams. I'm running new stock OEM valves, and I shift my DSM between 7-8k rpms. I've never had an issue with this setup, as I was told about this by Jeff Bush who also ran this is his budget beater auto DSM that he had built and sold. So I'd say its safe to say that there is nothing wrong with it since its a proven setup. I understand someone did a test with a spring rate tester, but the proof is here that it works.

Also I was told about the BC springs & retainers, and cams being junk as far as compared to other brands by companies that dyno and track test products. English Racing as well as AMS performance, I didn't buy cams or springs & retainers from either company. This was simply their statement on products when I asked about them. Is it coincidental that both companies told me the samething about a brand? No, this is from their research and testing of products.

Here is AMS dyno session of testing CAMS

Ams Evo Cam Test - evolutionm.net

As I stated and was told by others, to get any gains out of the BC cams, adjustable cam gears had to be adjusted. I'm not saying your buddy or whoever didn't gain power with them, or that he didn't run a 10 second pass with them. I simply stating that their are better cams out there with the same claimed duration (272) that will make more power.

Richard33 ran that 10sec pass with stock mitsubishi cam gears. I made the 573whp with the bc272 stock cam gears. You said something that is so true "There are better cams with the same claimed duration than bc272". Claimed or should we say advertised duration change from one 272 cam to the next which means some 272 cams are bigger than others depending on the lift the durations is measured at. Therefore no standard is set across the board companies use whatever lift they want to make their cams desirable to those looking for a cam upgrade.

Now when you say their are better cams than the bc272 may I ask what makes a cam better than another cam in your opinion? I prefered to run the bc272 after testing a few cams IMO it was the best one for my setup. Don't get me wrong it didn't make the most power but it darn show was the most streetable. No gas smell inside my car at the traffic light, great off boost power, excellent gas mileage, stock like idle, and most of all served my needs when I wanted to open her up. Now maybe you have a different preference from your daily driver than me the other cams didn't work with my needs So maybe the OP is running the bc272 because he love driving his car daily to and fro like me. AMS and all those guys build race cars and naturally don't care much about driving to the store and back home. Therefore their recommendation is race first daily driver second.

 

[bastarddsm]

I'm running all Evo 8 valve train in my DSM and have multiple low 7 second high 6 second passes in the 1/8 mile on them using comp 272 cams. I'm running new stock OEM valves, and I shift my DSM between 7-8k rpms. I've never had an issue with this setup, as I was told about this by Jeff Bush who also ran this is his budget beater auto DSM that he had built and sold. So I'd say its safe to say that there is nothing wrong with it since its a proven setup. I understand someone did a test with a spring rate tester, but the proof is here that it works.

Did you even bother to check seal to retainer clearance? the guide height can vary from head to head, but on 3 separate 1g 6bolt heads, with standard valve seals, there was interference at .370" lift. You should compare a evo retainer to a dsm retainer, you'll see that the bottom of the evo retainer is something like 0.070" lower than the dsm one.

 

[J_HEATH]

Did you even bother to check seal to retainer clearance? the guide height can vary from head to head, but on 3 separate 1g 6bolt heads, with standard valve seals, there was interference at .370" lift. You should compare a evo retainer to a dsm retainer, you'll see that the bottom of the evo retainer is something like 0.070" lower than the dsm one.

I didn't install the springs & retainers, a reputable local machine shop who rebuilt the head and for me did the install. Hence the reason for my confidence in setup. I would never just swap out springs & retainers because of what you just stated. Clearences and all need to be checked for height and seating. I don't have a machine shop or the equipment at my home to do this so I take stuff like this and blocks to a machine shop.

I tent to forget that not everyone is like me and willing to spend money on quality parts versus cheap and something that will get by.

That is why for my new setup I have a fully built AMS head with all supertech components and Kelford cams.

 

[Talon96fwd]

You will be fine my vote goes to bc 272 cams

 

[DUSTIN213]

This is Dustin from Brian Crower. The actual spring kit with titanium retainers that ENGLISH had issues with was a CROWER spring kit and we are a seperate company. Our springs are made by PAC racing which is the same company that makes them for COMP, KIGGLY and GSC. When Brian started BC in 2006 we actually expanded too fast and the EVO 9 cams didn't make the power they should have which gave us a bad rep in the EVO. Any issues we had was years ago and all the steps have been taken (empoyee changes) to fix the problem. If any one has any questions or concerns with the BC products feel free to give me a call @ 619-749-9018 or email me at [email protected]

 

[BogusSVO]

OP... I have installed more sets of the BC1100 springs than I can remember with both stock retainers and with the Ti retainers.

As long as they are set up properly they will be just fine. But that also applies for any valve spring.

Kelton said alot about the BC272 cams, yes there are "bigger" cams out there. That will make more power, but it is all a trade off, and the cam selection needs to be based on wht the use of the car is.

The cams for a strong DD will be diffrent than those for an all out drag car, or a Dyno queen car.

 

[J_HEATH]

BogusSVO,

I'm buying that head you fixed for Mohammed. I was one of the guys that helped disassemble his motor after it let go. Awesome work on the head, it looks good as new. I hope it's able to handle the abuse I'm going to be throwing at it!

 

[BogusSVO]

BogusSVO,

I'm buying that head you fixed for Mohammed. I was one of the guys that helped disassemble his motor after it let go. Awesome work on the head, it looks good as new. I hope it's able to handle the abuse I'm going to be throwing at it!

J-Heath... He told me he had it sold. When you first brought it up a few posts up. I thought you may be the one getting it.

Here is the work that it went through.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/439824-4g63-dropped-valve-head-repair.html

Not as much of it is AMS any more, the runner port work is about it.

It should handle as much as you want to throw at it.