Need some help deciding...

[ChvyKc]

I'm just wondering how well AWD 1G's do on road courses. I am thinking about getting into the local SCCA club but I am a little worried how well my car will do and what class they will put me in with the amount of mods that I have done to the car. I want to be competitive if I start entering the events and have a good car to work my way up with.

I do have another car that I was thinking about using for the events. It's a 1996 Civic 2 door coupe. I know that the majority of you are going to kill me for even saying that on these boards but please keep an open mind. I hate Hondas just as much as everybody else but I got this car for free and it is in excellent shape.

I just wanted to get some input on what you guys think I should do. I know a lot of the guys that run in the SCCA events say to start out with a basically bone stock car and go up from there. I also figured that an all motor fwd car would be better in that type of situation as well. I would eventually do a LS swap in the Civic with a nice suspension set up and shoot for around 200 wheel horsepower. Thanks for the help guys. If this is in the wrong forum hopefully one of the mods will move it.

 

[Elvenhome21]

Looking at your mods there is nothing that pops out that would make a tech inspector think that your car is to special to be put in a very high class. For the most part all of your addons I think are all allowed in improved touring, just keep in mind that if you show up with full race slicks you will more than likely be put in the unlimited class. NASA seems to be a better series to get into and cheaper.
Slowoldpoop would be the one to ask on the AWD stuff.

 

[Ludachris]

Personally, I wouldn't jump into SCCA racing with a 1G AWD. They'll throw you into a very difficult class that you likely won't be competitive in at all. Look into NASA, they'll have 3 series that you'd fit into - Performance Touring, Super Touring, and Super Unlimited. PT will be the series where you're allowed minimal mods, ST will be next, then SU will be all out mods. Both PT and ST are very new series and I think you'd be best served to try to prep the car for one of those.

SCCA just doesn't cater to turbocharged/AWD cars like NASA does. And yes, it's usually cheaper to compete in NASA.

 

[ChvyKc]

Personally, I wouldn't jump into SCCA racing with a 1G AWD. They'll throw you into a very difficult class that you likely won't be competitive in at all. Look into NASA, they'll have 3 series that you'd fit into - Performance Touring, Super Touring, and Super Unlimited. PT will be the series where you're allowed minimal mods, ST will be next, then SU will be all out mods. Both PT and ST are very new series and I think you'd be best served to try to prep the car for one of those.

SCCA just doesn't cater to turbocharged/AWD cars like NASA does. And yes, it's usually cheaper to compete in NASA.

That is what I was afraid of. I wrote the director of the local SCCA and he said that Civic would probably be best to start out with. The SCCA events here are not that bad on price. The first event in Orangeburg only requires that you be a member of the SCCA and buy a sticker from the sponsor for 5 bucks.

I haven't been able to find any info on any local NASA events. If anybody has some info to point me in the right direction that would be great. That sounds like the kind of series that I need to get into if I decide to run the Talon.

I have also been thinking about selling the Buschur FMIC and putting the 14B back on the car with the stock intercooler. I still have to rebuild the motor after losing compression in the first cylinder and that would give me the funds to do the rebuild and put some springs on the car. I would also like to come up with some funds to get DSMLink to get rid of the idle problems that I have been having.

 

[Slow old poop]

Slowoldpoop would be the one to ask on the AWD stuff.

I think the AWD DSM is an awesome track car, but you should start with NASA, not SCCA.

First of all, you don't have to do ANYTHING to the car to run NASA HPDE. Just a helmet. Next, NASA will provide instructors, and give you plenty of track time. In a NASA event, you get to run four 20-minute sessions a day. Sometimes 5. Compare that with SCCA.

You work your way up from HPDE1 to HPDE4, running against faster cars and better drivers each time. HPDE4 allows open passing, so it is as close as you can get to door-to-door racing and still not need any safety equipment or worry about where they class you. If you have any talent at all, you could move up to HPDE4 in just a few events.

The next step up is TT, where you run in a class with open passing and are timed. Fastest lap wins. Now, you have to start worrying about classes. With your mods, you'll probably be put in TTA, against Corvettes, M3s, S2000s, M Coupes and the like, where a good AWD DSM is very competitive. You still don't have to worry about safety equipment.

Finally, you can move up to a race class, such as Production Touring, which will be the same as the TT class, but now NASA gets real picky on safety equipment, such as a cage, window netting, etc, and they make you take a race driving class. That's where I am right now, planning to take the class and move up to PTA this season. I did my HPDE/TT stuff last season.

With diligence, reliability and a little talent you could be running TT this year, and PT next year. And while you are doing that, you can be prepping your car for the PT race class.

As for mods to your car, my advice is: Upgrade the brakes, buy a set of wheels with race tires (17 in. wheels with Toyo Prox RA1 235/40-17 are most suitable for you), and turn down the boost for reliability. Better you should get seat time than have a blazingly fast car that breaks all the time (been there, done that).

Rich

 

[Greg Collier]

I don’t mean to be a stick in the mud and also being a charter member of NASA but, if you have no track or parking lot racing experience and SCCA is your only and closest option…DO IT!

Do it with the Honda and then do it with the DSM. The first step is getting comfortable with turning the car at speeds you’ve never turned the car at before. Get comfortable with the concept. Meet people of like passions and interests and all will fall into place. Honda’s are great little auto-crossing cars with a minimum of power. AWD DSM’s are great road racing cars with the power to make you feel like you’re really going someplace. Like Rich said, seat time is the best thing you can do RIGHT NOW!

Here’s the NASA web closest to you (I think)…

http://www.nasa-southeast.com/

The most important thing is to have fun!

 

[Slow old poop]

I don’t mean to be a stick in the mud and also being a charter member of NASA but, if you have no track or parking lot racing experience and SCCA is your only and closest option…DO IT!Do it with the Honda and then do it with the DSM.

If he wants to go road racing, not autocrossing, then I disagree with the SCCA advice. SCCA will make him spend a billion dollars on a roll cage and safety equipment before the Honda will be allowed on track. With NASA, he can take either car on the track for HPDEs and TT without any required safety stuff.

In a way, I sort of agree with using the Honda first. Running a low-powered car is the best way to learn how to maintain momentum, keep speeds up, run in high gears, minimize braking, and so on--because if he doesn't learn how to do that, he'll be running at the back of the pack and being passed by little old ladies in Miatas. It ain't as much fun as blowing off M3s and 911s with the DSM, but it will sure teach him the ropes. Besides, if he blows the motor or rolls it whilst learning, it's just a Honda and he got it for free. No loss.

OTOH, there is a definite difference in driving FWDs and AWDs. Why learn how to drive a wallowing, plowing, slow pig of a stock FWD Honda when he can start working on his AWD technique in a car that's competitive from the gitgo?

 

[ChvyKc]

I think that I might just stick with the DSM just for the reason that if something goes terribly wrong with the Civic my soon to be wife will kill me. That's how I got the car for free. She was in the market for a new car and instead of trading the Civic in and getting nothing for it she decided to give it to me that way I could drive it to work and school.

I need the Civic to be a daily driver but the Talon is just strictly a track car. It has no AC, no radio and the interior is gutted from the front seats back. It doesn't really matter if something goes wrong with it because I will still have a car to drive to work/school the next day.

The only thing that is holding me back about the talon is the amount of work and money that it needs to get it running correctly. I am getting married in August and I am really pushed for money. I think that I could come up with enough money just to get the car running but that will be with a 14B with tons of shaft play, a tranny that grinds like crazy going into second and the car still has a problem with wanting to die on me when it comes to idle.

The Civic on the other hand is in almost perfect condition. The only thing wrong with it is it has a very small exhaust manifold leak. It handles like a champ even though it is stock but it just lacks in the power department. I have a buddy that has a couple of LS motors that I could swap in to help with that.