Need Opinions on Clutch and Flywheel Choice

[screamingdemon]

Ok so my clutch has decide to start slipping. At the current moment I'm sort of up in the air about which clutch and flywheel combo to go with.

I have had plans of replacing my t25 at some point in the future (maybe a year or so at soonest) with the big 16G I have (needs rebuild). But what's bothering me is the life span of the clutch I pick. This car is my DD primarily. According to a sight that was giving advice on clutches for different HP the ACT 2600 w/ street disc seems to be the one I'd need since my goal would be 300 to 350hp with the 16G. I also was planning on the Fidanza flywheel since I'd have the tranny pulled anyways.

That same sight that recommend the ACT 2600 clutch said on average that clutch only lasts (street and track driving) 10k miles. That seems way to weak for what I want as my DD's clutch. I'm open to suggestions and opinions. If I can manage to sell my R6 then I'll go ahead and get my timing belt replaces along with all the other random stuff to keep it as reliable as I can.

Basicly....how well will the ACT 2600 w/ streetdisk and Fidanza flywheel hold up to my DDing and occasional pulls.

Or should I just slap all OEM parts in and wait until I do the 16G turbo and then upgrade? As it stands it'll be awhile before I do the 16G upgrade. All help is greatly appreciated.

 

[ulitka]

Resurface your stock flywheel to spec and contact Tim at TMZ Performance for clutch disk and pressure plate selection. My guess would be a South Bend Kevlar sprung disk with SS-Series pressure plate.
http://www.tmzperformance.com/Mitsubishi%20SBC%20Clutch%20Kits.html

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

ACT 2600 is one of the most common clutch upgrades for this car. I have used this setup with the ACT streetlite flywheel. I never had any problem with the setup except having to adjust my pedal height. Fidanza makes a nice flywheel. I have one in my 3/s and have had no issues with it. I like that you can replace the friction surface. To get the most out of this setup, I would also change the clutch fork, slave cylinder, ss clutch line, and master cylinder for the clutch. These components are often overlooked.

This is not the most friendly clutch in traffic if it is a concern.

 

[Paul@RTM]

I've used the 2600/Fidanza flywheel combination on one of my 1g's and had no issues. I will say that the pedal pressure is noticeably more than stock so be ready for that. As for the comment you heard about the 2600 lasting only 10k miles. I suppose if you're tracking the car or launching every five minutes that might be right. But normal daily driving? It should last much longer than that. If I had to advise I'd say a 2100 might be a better choice. It can handle quite a bit more power than the stocker and with basically stock pedal pressure. I think the 2100 is an underrated clutch. I'm using a 2100/Fidanza combo in my current 2g.

 

[screamingdemon]

I plan on inspecting the master and slave cylinders prior to ordering all the parts to make sure they're still good to go. I however do plan on a stainless line for sure. As it stands I may just go back all OEM since I'll only be rocking mild bolt-on's with maybe a few PSI bump higher later on. I want to do the 16G swap the right way and have all the pieces in hand so I have little to no downtime. As it stands my T25 has zero shaft play so it should last me a good while.

Any help with who has the cheapest OEM clutch kit for sale?

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

At the top of the screen check out the banner with performance ads. There is a thin part that says "See All DSMtuners Supporting Vendors". Start there.

 

[GSLENK]

I think a 2100, a southbend kevlar disc, sprung, and act streetlite will get you where you wanna be, I believe it will hold, and help avoid walking the crank. I went for the 2600/kevlar disc/streetlite, and I am extremely happy with it. I haven't dyno'ed, but my clutch never slips unless I want it to. Although the pedal is definitely stiffer, you get used to it within a week. and engagement is not difficult at all. VERY STREETABLE. I could stop and go all day if i had to, I just would want to.

And do talk to twicks69 I think is his username. Tim Zimmer @ TMZ knows a lot on this subject and will help you find what you need, and not over do it.

 

[screamingdemon]

Resurface your stock flywheel to spec and contact Tim at TMZ Performance for clutch disk and pressure plate selection. My guess would be a South Bend Kevlar sprung disk with SS-Series pressure plate.
TMZ Performance

Do you think that'd be a good combo to run with with a Fidanza flywheel? My permanent plan for the car is no bigger than a 16G turbo. I figure the lighter flywheel would help spool time since it'd let the engine rev a bit quicker.

The reason I'm a bit wishy washy is I'm a bit tight on funds with Christmas so close and my clutch deciding to sh*t the bed. If it's a good combo for my future setup and will hold up well to mild pulls and DDing then I may can justify getting it all and just doing it now.

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

I think a 2100, a southbend kevlar disc, sprung, and act streetlite will get you where you wanna be, I believe it will hold, and help avoid walking the crank.

I fully agree with this. While I haven't gotten mine yet so I can't give you results, I just ordered an act 2100, and a southbend full kevlar disk from TMZ. I've got a Fidanza and for my daily driving with occasional pulls I think it will work just fine. Just read up what Tim wrote on TMZ about the flywheels so you can decide what you need. Near stock pedal pressure while able to hold gobs of tq as well as not going out at 10k....according to what Tim stated on TMZ about this disk.

 

[ulitka]

Do you think that'd be a good combo to run with with a Fidanza flywheel? My permanent plan for the car is no bigger than a 16G turbo. I figure the lighter flywheel would help spool time since it'd let the engine rev a bit quicker.

The reason I'm a bit wishy washy is I'm a bit tight on funds with Christmas so close and my clutch deciding to sh*t the bed. If it's a good combo for my future setup and will hold up well to mild pulls and DDing then I may can justify getting it all and just doing it now.

For a DD I would not recommend a lighter flywheel unless your car is under 2800lbs. Save money and reuse your stock flywheel, just make sure to machine it to a spec.

 

[WES_393]

IMO, go with the stock (resurfaced and stepped) flywheel along with a complete South Bend clutch kit. I would forget ACT all together. The South Bend SS pressure plate is a 2200lb plate, so it's barely heavier than a 2100. It has a very light pedal feel as well. My stock Spyder has a stiffer clutch and harsher engagement than my TSi with SS TZ kit. But don't mistake kindness for weakness, this clutch grips and rips like no other single disk I've ever driven.

 

[Seamus]

I haven't used a southbend clutch on a DSM yet, but I have been using them on my Audi and 930 for a while. They are fantastic and it will be my next DSM clutch without a thought.

whatever clutch you buy, make sure you pitch the TOb it comes with in the trash and use OEM.

 

[twicks69]

I agree on the stock flywheel being resurfaced to a 0.612" step by a competent machinist who is experienced with stepped flywheels.

For clutch options, I would go with the SBC SS-Series 2200# pressure plate, and full face sprung hub TZ-series kevlar disk with an OEM throwout bearing. Though the supplied TOB with the SBC kit is good, I still recommend the better OEM TOB.

Since this is a DD car, I would go without the fidanza flywheel unless you are running DSMLink V3 or AEM EMS as you will need to adjust your Decel throttle and idle speed controller stepper motor functions to prevent the car from stumbling or stalling out on Decel when you go to neutral.

With this clutch choice you should be fine with the flywheel having a machined surface finish or if the machinist has a media blaster, have them blast it with an aluminum oxide blast media to increase the surface porosity of the flywheel friction surface so that the kevlar material beds in quicker and will help with preventing slippage on heavy launches. I already have all my clutch orders that utilize a kevlar friction material prepared with a media blasted pressure plate friction surface.

 

[WES_393]

whatever clutch you buy, make sure you pitch the TOb it comes with in the trash and use OEM.

+1 to this. And here's why:

(Exedy to the left, Mitsubishi to the right)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The contact surface on the Exedy is much smaller than the Mitsu. It's also very far inward (inner most ring) and flat, while the Mitsu's contact surface is right in the center, raised, and rounded. Mitsu TOB's are also more reliable and known to last much longer.

 

[Snow White]

I'm currently running an Evo 3 16g with a Fidanza flywheel and stage 2 exedy clutch in my Gst and its not much stiffer on the pedal than stock. But really grips I love it. hope this helps. Yes go OEM on the TOB
Good luck!

 

[bewstin]

XTD Stage 4 kit with the chromoly 11lb flywheel is under $300 shipped. Had one on my RX7 for 9 months, and was working great when i sold it. Have one in my GS-T now, grabs good, pedals stronger than OEM but not crazy at all, no problems. I will say anything under stage 4 through XTD is trash and will only hold stock power. If you decided to go this route go stage 4, with a sprung disc. Also that's 16psi on a 20g, it holds great.

But if you've got money to spend, ACT 2600 or 2100 is yours best route, and if you don't want stalling issues I'd stick with the stock flywheel. (XTD w/o flywheel is like 180 shipped)

 

[screamingdemon]

So far the plan stands as...
New OEM Throw Out Bearing
New Clutch Fork
New Pivot Ball
New Master cylinder
New Slave cylinder
Stainless steel line to go between the slave and master
South Bend Clutch Heavy Duty TZ-Series Kevlar Clutch Assembly
Fidanza Flywheel

 

[twicks69]

Looks like a good list!



Tim Zimmer
TMZ Performance

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

I know it's been said, but personally I'd look at redoing the stock flywheel- when I had my fidanza, it made shifting a pita as well as rev matching- sure it revs fast, but it falls off just as quick, making shifting outside of WOT a chore- not worth the 10hp gain on a DD imo. You also need to tip into the throttle a bit more if your trying to slip it to keep the rpms up- makes everybody stare at you like your some hoon while your revving to the moon at a light trying to slip a heavier clutch, yet keep the rpms up.

Also, if you do the 1g 60mm TB upgrade with your flywheel on a daily with a grippy clutch- your going to have a bad time.

My 2g talon was on/off to a point where it was a chore to drive in traffic being my DD- like your car- so fair warning


Resurface a stock weight, otherwise your list looks good for a prepped daily meant to take some abuse.

 

[screamingdemon]

I know it's been said, but personally I'd look at redoing the stock flywheel- when I had my fidanza, it made shifting a pita as well as rev matching- sure it revs fast, but it falls off just as quick, making shifting outside of WOT a chore- not worth the 10hp gain on a DD imo. You also need to tip into the throttle a bit more if your trying to slip it to keep the rpms up- makes everybody stare at you like your some hoon while your revving to the moon at a light trying to slip a heavier clutch, yet keep the rpms up.

Also, if you do the 1g 60mm TB upgrade with your flywheel on a daily with a grippy clutch- your going to have a bad time.

My 2g talon was on/off to a point where it was a chore to drive in traffic being my DD- like your car- so fair warning


Resurface a stock weight, otherwise your list looks good for a prepped daily meant to take some abuse.

Wasn't aware it'd make it such a light switch for daily driving. Especially after having searched and seeing people review it so well saying how much they liked it. I've checked around and the nearest place to get my flywheel potentially resurfaced is over an hour away. Was hoping to kill two birds with one stone with an upgraded flywheel and not having to go through the hassle of getting my stock one redone.

 

[Calan]

when I had my fidanza, it made shifting a pita as well as rev matching- sure it revs fast, but it falls off just as quick, making shifting outside of WOT a chore- not worth the 10hp gain on a DD imo. You also need to tip into the throttle a bit more if your trying to slip it to keep the rpms up- makes everybody stare at you like your some hoon while your revving to the moon at a light trying to slip a heavier clutch, yet keep the rpms up.

Also, if you do the 1g 60mm TB upgrade with your flywheel on a daily with a grippy clutch- your going to have a bad time.

My 2g talon was on/off to a point where it was a chore to drive in traffic being my DD- like your car- so fair warning

Something doesn't sound right with that ^. I've used lightweight flywheels for years with an ACT 2100 and ACT 2600, and am currently running an ACT Streetlite FW with a Southbend/TMZ clutch setup... and I have never had any issues at all with daily driving or launching.

Ryan - Even with an aftermarket flywheel, you still need to check the step height to ensure that it is between .608" and .610". Never trust anything right out of the box.

 

[Paul@RTM]

I know it's been said, but personally I'd look at redoing the stock flywheel- when I had my fidanza, it made shifting a pita as well as rev matching- sure it revs fast, but it falls off just as quick, making shifting outside of WOT a chore- not worth the 10hp gain on a DD imo. You also need to tip into the throttle a bit more if your trying to slip it to keep the rpms up- makes everybody stare at you like your some hoon while your revving to the moon at a light trying to slip a heavier clutch, yet keep the rpms up.

I guess like they say, your mileage may vary, 'cause I had a Fidanza/ACT combo on both my DD 1g and DD 2g and never had any of the issues you speak of. Of course, there IS a slight driveability difference between the very light Fidanza and stock but nowhere near how you describe. I'm certainly not disputing you, just sayin' it might not be typical.

 

[forumboarder154]

Like others have said, I think the perfect setup is a ACT2100 pp/South Bend Kevlar Disc combo with a chromoly flywheel. Please don't get aluminum they can warp . Awesome for a dd too. Other than that your list looks great. I am is no way dissing the South Bend pp, just saying the ACT2100 would probably have a better feel at the pedal pressure wise.

 

[BoyRacerBlu]

mine was further captioned by having a larger tb and ported evo3 intake- it resulted in the car being VERY jerky from no to light/moderate throttle- mostly bc the TB added the response, and the fidanza let the 7 bolt spin so fast comparatively to stock that it made it difficult to rev match. Every once in awhile when I driving, if I wasn't paying close attention to my rpms and driving when shifting the car would bog from the rpm dip and the lower inertia of the fidanza, same with occasionally buzzing a gear if I wasnt paying attention and attempting to rev match

I know from at least my OWN experience, that as far as a DD is concerned, I'll keep a stock weight flywheel

if its a track car, then heck yes I'll take the flywheel. It's just those DD quirks/hassles you need to decide if its right for you- like the guys who ditch power steering. They claim increased feedback, which is great for driver confidence and the track, but its a PITA to turn at lower speeds or especially a standstill. The flywheel is on the same token- sure WOT and racing conditions made it aweasome, but for DD'ing I wouldn't put one back in mine.

been there, done that, hated the experience- at least for DD use.

 

[turbo laser]

So far the plan stands as...
New OEM Throw Out Bearing
New Clutch Fork
New Pivot Ball
New Master cylinder
New Slave cylinder
Stainless steel line to go between the slave and master
South Bend Clutch Heavy Duty TZ-Series Kevlar Clutch Assembly
Fidanza Flywheel

I have the same exact setup through Tim and it has been great for me in my 1g with a 20g. It does not have a stiff peddle and it was good in traffic. I would get another Southbend if this one ever goes.