need help with compression??

[diamondsm]

k so i just got finished rebuilding my 4g63 and put it in but im having some problems??

my car: 1993 eclipse, 7bolt 4g63 non-turbo bored .20 over with turbo pistons and bearings

1. i need a detailed pic for vacuum line routing?

2. what should the compression be? i did 2 compression tests ### the first looked wierd

first second

#1. 179 #1. 161

#2. 164 #2. 165

#3. 160 #3. 161

#4. 160 #4. 165


3. it smokes on acceleration and a little bit at idle (white smoke, some times has a little bit of a blue tint?? what should i check??

4. this question dont really matter but i dont know what year or kind of block i rebuilt the block says ( 4g63 nn 3065 )

k so i just got finished rebuilding my 4g63 and put it in but im having some problems??

my car: 1993 eclipse, 7bolt 4g63 non-turbo bored .20 over with turbo pistons and bearings

1. i need a detailed pic for vacuum line routing?

2. what should the compression be? i did 2 compression tests ### the first looked wierd

first second

#1. 179 #1. 161

#2. 164 #2. 165

#3. 160 #3. 161

#4. 160 #4. 165


3. it smokes on acceleration and a little bit at idle (white smoke, some times has a little bit of a blue tint?? what should i check??

4. this question dont really matter but i dont know what year or kind of block i rebuilt the block says ( 4g63 nn 3065 )

i just did 2 wet compression test here is the resaults


first wet test

1#. 181
2#. 178
3#. 170
4#. 158


second wet test

1#. 181
2#. 175
3#. 180
4#. 198 (i tested again and got 184)



is this good or bad??

 

[19Eclipse90]

Vacuum Diagrams: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/198327-taboo-speed-shop-vacuum-diagram-removal-1g-2g.html

Looks like you are a little low on the compression, technically within servicing range. When compression increases during a wet test, rings are a common culprit: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/388128-what-compression-numbers.html#post152409668

How long has it been since the engine was rebuilt? Are you sure its not just burning off old oil? Does your coolant level drop on its own? Does the turbo have shaft play? How are your valve stem seals? With the compression as it is, you might be looking at rings. Do a leak down test to find out if that is the case: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/338152-compression-leak-down-testing.html

The tenth digit in the VIN will tell you the year of the block. Check this thread out to find its location: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/390960-block-identification.html
L=1990, M=1991, N=1992, P=1993, R=1994, S=1995, T=1996, V=1997, W=1998, X=1999

 

[diamondsm]

i just finished putting it back togather and putting it in ive only drove it up the block and back....i havent put the turbo on it yet, the coolant level does not drop, and im not sure how the valve seels are i didnt replace them when rebuilding (i had it hot tanked and presure tested at the mechine shop and they said it was fine)

could it be an injector??

one of the tips on my injector broke. i orderd a rebuild kit for it and they gave me the wrong tip but i was able to make the tip work with part of the boken one. the engine is running strong besides the vacuum lines.

i just finished putting it back togather and putting it in ive only drove it up the block and back....i havent put the turbo on it yet, the coolant level does not drop, and im not sure how the valve seels are i didnt replace them when rebuilding (i had it hot tanked and presure tested at the mechine shop and they said it was fine)

could it be an injector??

one of the tips on my injector broke. i orderd a rebuild kit for it and they gave me the wrong tip but i was able to make the tip work with part of the boken one. the engine is running strong besides the vacuum lines.

i need a vacuum chart for a non turbo 4g63

 

[Calan]

Looks to me like random/inaccurate compression test results. Try a different tester, or figure out why you are getting inconsistent results (car temp, fitting tightness, number of cranks, etc).

And... do a leak-down test as Brian recommended.

BTW - Until you know which engine you're dealing with, you don't know exactly what compression numbers you should be seeing. But, based on the average those look like stock 7-bolt turbo numbers to me.

 

[diamondsm]

its a 7 bolt block i bought on craiglist didnt know the milage or the year

i rebuilt it with turbo pistons, rings and bearings. i had the block mechined and bored .20 over



i did 2 leak down tests

first

#1. 181
#2. 178
#3. 170
#4. 158


second

#1. 181
#2. 175
#3. 180
#4. 184

 

[Calan]

i did 2 leak down tests

first

#1. 181
#2. 178
#3. 170
#4. 158


second

#1. 181
#2. 175
#3. 180
#4. 184

Looks like you are confusing a leak-down test with a compression test. They are completely different, as explained in the article Brian linked to.

 

[diamondsm]

i didnt look at that and now that i did i didnt do a leak down test.what i did was two tests first one( i did a regular compression test ) then i was told to do it again but to add a cap of oil to each cylinder and test them again...what is that test called and what does that tell me??

 

[Calan]

i didnt look at that and now that i did i didnt do a leak down test.what i did was two tests first one( i did a regular compression test ) then i was told to do it again but to add a cap of oil to each cylinder and test them again...what is that test called and what does that tell me??

You did a standard compression test, followed by a "wet" compression test.

The idea of the wet compression test is that the addition of some oil will help the rings seal; in theory, if the compression numbers are better with the wet test than they were dry, then you have worn rings.

The problem is that for one thing, the wet test is highly dependent on the profile of your pistons. If all the oil remains at the center of a dished piston instead of out at the rings, then the results won't change much. Another problem is that adding too much oil will effectively lower the displacement of the cylinder and naturally increase compression, leading to false assumptions.

A compression test tells you if your engine can build cylinder pressure; a leak-down test tells you if it can hold it. They are complimentary tests, and should both be done if you want to get the most information possible about what is going on with your engine.

One thing worth mentioning...it's not always advisable to do a compression test, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think. Since it involves cranking the motor over, it's possible to do more harm than good if you have certain damage such as a slipped timing belt/valves contacting pistons, etc. A leak-down test is static though, and is safe to do at any time.

 

[diamondsm]

the rings are brand new tho??......no one has answered me and told me if my injector could be the problem because like i said i had to jimmy rig it??

i have no vacuum lines hooked up could vacuum lines cause it to smoke??

 

[19Eclipse90]

The rings may be brand new, but that doesn't mean they have set yet or set correctly.

No, an injector will not cause this issue.

 

[Calan]

the rings are brand new tho?

How new? Is the engine even broken in yet? If so, how did you break it in?

EDIT: I just saw "ive only drove it up the block and back". First thing is, you need to get the engine properly broke in. Compression will be all over the place until the rings seat.

no one has answered me and told me if my injector could be the problem because like i said i had to jimmy rig it??

I can't even fathom this, so I have no idea.

i have no vacuum lines hooked up could vacuum lines cause it to smoke??

Missing or improperly connected vacuum lines can cause all kinds of weird problems.

You also mentioned you don't have a turbo on it yet? Is it set up for one?

********

WTF have you done to that car?

 

[19Eclipse90]

Hook them up.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[diamondsm]

brand new not broke in.i let it run for maybe an 45 minutes tops and only drove up the street and back one time and didnt go over 25mph...no turbo hooked up the car was originaly a non turbo i rebuilt it with all turbo internals and am peacing togather a set up...the injector is hard to explain basicly the plastic tip broke i cut half the broken part off and took the new plastic cap and made it work...

were can i got a non turbo vacuum routing chart??

 

['97boostinGST]

The OP has clearly stated in his original post that he built a NON-TURBO 4g63.
The question is, why did you choose turbo pistons over N/A pistons??
And like mentioned aboved, BREAK IT IN FIRST at least a good 500 miles of driving and then come back with new numbers.

 

[diamondsm]

this was my first engine build and i wanted a turbo so i figure i needed turbo pistons and internals was that a mistake? i thought 4g63 blocks were the same and the differance in the turbo and non turbo were the internals.......and i cant drive it 500 miles if its smoking

 

[Calan]

The OP has clearly stated in his original post that he built a NON-TURBO 4g63.
The question is, why did you choose turbo pistons over N/A pistons??

Yeah. I'm completely confused on the intent at this point, but it shouldn't matter much.

brand new not broke in.i let it run for maybe an 45 minutes tops and only drove up the street and back one time and didnt go over 25mph...

Bad idea. You shouldn't run the motor until it's ready to be broke in...and at that point you just need it to let it idle long enough to warm up, check the basics like timing, look for leaks, etc., and then go do a few steady pulls into the mid-RPM range followed by engine braking back down to idle RPM's or just above that.

Most wear on a new engine occurs in the first 20 miles or so (or 20 minutes of idling). It's critical to get the rings seated as soon as possible. You also want to do plenty of oil changes early and often.

Search the forums on break-in. There is a lot of information on it (as well as mis-information and arguing unfortunately).

 

[diamondsm]

thank you 19eclipse90 i searched every were and could not find a diagram

i did let it warm up first and i checked for leaks as well as my temp and oil presure and it was all perfect

should i drive it while its smoking to break it in??

 

[Calan]

should i drive it while its smoking to break it in??

If there is nothing mechanically wrong (good timing, oil pressure, temperature, no leaks, no weird noises)... then it's smoking BECAUSE it's not broke in.

So yes... get it broke in and then redo the compression test.

BTW - Have you re-torqued the head bolts yet?

 

[diamondsm]

no not yet i was told to drive it for 50 miles then to re-torque the head....and are you absolutely sure it should be fine to drive?? ### ive been building it for months and have put alot of money and time into it and really dont wanna hurt anything its like my child ha

 

[Calan]

and are you absolutely sure it should be fine to drive?

Well of course I'm not sure of that. How could I be without being there to personally look it over?

But as I said before... "If there is nothing mechanically wrong", then it can't hurt to drive it. Only you can make that decision though.

It's probably smoking because the rings aren't seated, and unless you own an engine dyno, there isn't a way to seat them without driving it. So...

 

[diamondsm]

very tru. i think im gonna try it and hope for the best thank you guys for all your help

 

[Calan]

very tru. i think im gonna try it and hope for the best thank you guys for all your help

Get your vac lines hooked up properly, check your plug gaps and firing order, check, recheck, and triple check the timing mark alignment (and set the base timing), and break it in PROPERLY. Don't redline it, but don't baby it either. Do plenty of acceleration pulls to 5-6k RPMS followed by engine braking.

And don't forget to change the oil at 20, 100, 500, and 1000 miles. (I would probably even go ahead and change it now if it has already idled for 45 minutes on brand new rings; your oil probably smells like gas). Use cheap dyno oil (but good filters like a Wix or NAPA Gold) until 1000 miles, and then switch to a good synthetic racing oil like Brad Penn or Valvoline VR-1.

It wouldn't hurt to do the leak-down test first, if you want some added assurance that everything is in good shape internally.

Good luck and report back to us in this thread.

 

[diamondsm]

just hooked up the vacuum lines and i would say 95% of the smoke is gona im letting it warm up to see if the the rest will burn off....how important is it to change the oil at 20 50 100 ### im on a budget??

 

[Calan]

how important is it to change the oil at 20 50 100 ### im on a budget??

What's $20 worth of oil/filters compared to the price of a motor?

You'll end up with something like $60 in the first 1000 miles (changed at 20, 100, and 500 miles). Seems like pretty simple math and good insurance to me.

 

[diamondsm]

you do make a good point .... i just took it for a drive and it completely stopped smoking or at least it stopped enough that i cant see it while driving so im waiting for a buddy to come follow behind me but so far so good