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2G Need help selecting new turbo

Posted by silvreclips, Nov 26, 2018

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  1. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    Greenville, South Carolina
    The car is currently on a Holset hy35 turbo. I have been getting more into Autox lately and looking to downsize the turbo for something that will spool a bit quicker. I am having a difficult time selecting a good turbo that will bolt up to a T3 manifold.

    I am looking for around 325whp. I was trying to find something similar to a 16g but with a T3 housing. I am not willing to chop the manifold and change the flange.

    A ball bearing turbo is going to be out of my price range. I was hoping to sell the holset, add a little cash and buy a nice used or rebuilt garrett.

    Any suggestions?
     

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. 19gsx91

    19gsx91 Proven Member

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    for spool on an open t3 I'm not really sure an hy35 can be beat.. what rpm are you seeing max boost?
     

    Street Build 3K  16

    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    292 whp · 264 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  3. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

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    Independence, Minnesota
    Why not sell the t3 and get a dsm style manifold/turbo? The FP manifolds are cheap and will allow you to have a turbo more suited for your goals. The t3 is unnecessary for a 325hp build.
     

    Street Build 4K  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.793 @ 128.98 · 2G DSM
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  4. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    In 3rd gear full boost is somewhere around 4200rpm. Its been a while since I have looked at it. But in second gear during an autox, anything below 4k is extremely slow. At about 4k boost starts to build quickly and the car takes off.

    This holset should be good for 500 HP, I should be able to find something smaller that maxes out around 325-350 and pick up a good bit of spool.

    @Boomdeeze its a 420a car, turbo manifolds are not readily available. That being said, I can put any flange I want on this manifold IF its going to be worth the effort. But with so many turbos available in a T3 housing, I have a hard time believing that I can't find one that will bolt on.
     

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  5. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

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    Independence, Minnesota
    Sorry I didn't see it was a 420a car. I still stand by my statement that a T3 setup is far overkilled and wasted spool for the 325hp goal you have. The stock flanged turbos can handle your 325 goal while increasing spool dramatically compared to the holest. Why not run an e316g or an FP 68HTA for that power goal? They won't be maxed out but will increase your spool time.

    Maybe @JusMX141 can chime in for housing options but I don't recall a 16g having the option for a t3 configuration.
     

    Street Build 4K  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    10.793 @ 128.98 · 2G DSM
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  6. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    You're giving up too much spool by wanting to stay T3. There are 16G-sized turbos out there with T3 flanges, but most have a housing a/r of around 10cm2 or .75. A friend ran a billet TD05H 20G with an 8cm2 T3 housing on his Evo and made about 100 more horsepower than your "typical" 20G with a stock housing but it wasn't seeing full boost until 4500.

    Ported 2G manifold and Evo III 16G are absolutely the answer to your spool and power goals.
     

    2K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

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  7. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    So even trying to find a T3 with a .63 or .48 A/R housing will still spool slower then a 16G? I can't use a 2G manifold but I can change my flange to a DSM flange.
     

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  8. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    There is only one Garrett T3 turbine anywhere near the size of a TD05H, and it doesn't flow near the TD05H so you'd have to run a .63 housing to get the same amount of flow...at which point you'd be spooling significantly later than a typical DSM 16G to make the same amount of power. You're honestly making this much more difficult than it needs to be.
     

    2K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

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  9. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    I'm just wanting to make sure I chose the right one. I appreciate everyone's input. I'll start looking out for a used 16g.

    Thanks
     

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    I have 10cm2 T3 housings here if you wanted to give one a shot on a 16G, but you're probably not going to like it.
     

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    manual · 2G DSM

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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    manual · 1G DSM
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  11. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    Just thought I would update this thread. I ended up buying a E3 16g and had Justin rebuild it. Swapped everything over to make the new turbo fit my setup. It turned out awesome and the spool is super quick compared to the holset. It should be a much better fit for autox then the holset was.

    Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
     

    Attached Files:

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  12. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    Another update. After half a dozen autox events on this setup, I've realized that even an E3 16g is still to laggy to be running. This last event, the back half of the course was really tight and I was getting back on the throttle around 2100rpm and this turbo had nothing to give. I had 2.3 seconds of WOT before the next turn and was only able to get 5psi of boost by the time I let off again. Hoping a 14b in a 6cm housing picks up some more low end torque to help pull this pig out of the corners.

    I should have it swapped out this week and will be doing some testing.
     

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  13. biglady112

    biglady112 Proven Member

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    Then something with a T2/T25 footprint is the answer you are looking for. I don’t know why these guys convinced you to go backwards and move to the terrible TD05 footprint. No one else in the car industry uses it and has success with the typical footprints.

    T25
    Gt2052
    T28
    Disco potato
    Gt2254
    Holset he221

    sh** like that is what you need. Won’t make anything for power but, will perform where you want.
     
  14. jdub099

    jdub099 Supporting VIP

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    I believe FP, at one point, had a Disco Potato in their FP30 turbine housing that some autocross guys used. It spooled fast and was good enough to run low 12s or high 11s in a race prepped car.
     
  15. delta448

    delta448 DSM Wiseman

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    In my experience the 6cm 14b spooled only a couple hundred rpm quicker than my 7cm E3, maybe my wastegate cracks were worse than I thought though. The disco potato is an intriguing idea, would love to know how it would turn out. Have you given any thought to adapting a twin scroll Evo X manifold and turbine housing?
     

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  16. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    Greenville, South Carolina
    I don't hate the dsm flanged housings all that much. I really like the flexibility of running something like a 14b all the way up to a 500whp turbo if I choose to, and they all bolt right on.

    A twin scroll is probably a really good idea, but I would be starting over from scratch with a new manifold. I'm not really looking for that right now.

    I have the new turbo on the car now, I'll give it a test drive this afternoon. I have logs of the E3 16g when it was on the car, I will be comparing data between the two. I'll post the results soon.

    In the autox world, tenths of a second are huge, so 500 rpm quicker spool should have a huge impact. The last event I ran, I was only able to get to full boost in 2nd once. Our course here is just tight and slower then some of the others I have ran before.
     

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  17. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    Greenville, South Carolina
    Well, some interesting results and I'm not really sure what to think right now.

    I bought an old 14b that had a lot of thrust play. I went ahead and threw a rebuild kit in it to be safe, the wheels both looked good. Turbo had the 6CM housing that had a lot of cracking in it. I run an external WG off the manifold so I welded the flapper closed.

    This turbo spools slower then the E3 16g did. The 16g hits full boost in 2nd gear right at 4k rpm. The 14b is about 2-300 rpm slower. My initial check I found a very small exhaust leak on the downpipe, but that shouldn't influence the results. I will have to do some more testing to see if I can find something wrong.

    Here is a snip of the logs overlayed.

    upload_2019-9-7_16-27-12.png
     

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  18. silvreclips

    silvreclips Proven Member

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    Greenville, South Carolina
    Did a little more work today, I put the 16g back on the car but left the 6cm housing on. The 16g spools the exact same as it did in the other 7cm housing. The data from the logs looks almost identical.

    Maybe the manifold design is the limiting factor, the runners are pretty large, I built it for higher HP years ago. There is also a pretty large FMIC on the car. I don't know how much that can impact spool up, but maybe that part of the issue to.
     

    Autocross Build 161  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  19. Jtackerman28

    Jtackerman28 Probationary Member

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    Joined May 31, 2016
    North Pole, Alaska
    Twin scroll hx35 setup from Morrison fab would be my suggestion personally
     

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