Need advice. Quote for new motor.

[Kdouglas89]

I am typing from my phone, sorry if grammar is off.

My balance shaft pulley snapped and I had it towed to a local performance shop. The pulley snapped in half. I am aware I need a total rebuild or a new motor. The shop said they could import a motor from japan that would garauntee to have less than 55k miles on original motor with a 90 day warranty. He said that would be around 1500.00. He said pulling and installing, fluids, and everything would be about 1000.00 labor.

The situation is, i will be getting an army loan, and they require a quote. I had the shop quote me at 3000.00 so I can do other modifications while the motor is out.

Does 2500 for everything sound ok.

 

[Breezio69]

I am typing from my phone, sorry if grammar is off.

My balance shaft pulley snapped and I had it towed to a local performance shop. The pulley snapped in half. I am aware I need a total rebuild or a new motor. The shop said they could import a motor from japan that would garauntee to have less than 55k miles on original motor with a 90 day warranty. He said that would be around 1500.00. He said pulling and installing, fluids, and everything would be about 1000.00 labor.

The situation is, i will be getting an army loan, and they require a quote. I had the shop quote me at 3000.00 so I can do other modifications while the motor is out.

Does 2500 for everything sound ok.

No, because that same $2500 could build you a better than stock motor.

Why pay what the car is worth for another stock motor? I'd start looking around rebuild kits and internal upgrades... what differenve does it make in the quote if its for a motor or parts for a motor?


Edit: and I'd be seriously cautious with the whole "overnight parts from japan" line the guy dropped... sounds like he doesn't know his shit because they were made in Illinois, not japan. Make sense?

 

[BogusSVO]

If you check supporting vendors, some have shortblocks for about $1400 or so, and completes for $2000 and go up depending on what you want.

They would be "zero" mile engines.

Yes some parts would have to come off your old engine and be cleaned and installed on the new engine.

Check out JAM, Force engineering, SIM or My shop.

Any of the decent builders will put a quote together based on what you want and need.

 

[Pipnorcali]

How nice do you think these "jdm" motors are? prob. Been sitting in a junkyard for years

 

[chico904]

Agree with everything stated above. With the money, get the engine that YOU want, not just a stock one...

 

[linksys42]

and I'd be seriously cautious with the whole "overnight parts from japan" line the guy dropped... sounds like he doesn't know his shit because they were made in Illinois, not japan. Make sense?

companies do import low mileage 4g63t's from japan. They have low mileage because of different reasons. One being because of strict inspection requirements "Shaken". which can cost 1000 to 1500 dollars for 24 months.

Why do JDM engines have low mileage? | Import Insider

 

[Breezio69]

How nice do you think these "jdm" motors are? prob. Been sitting in a junkyard for years

I'd even bet his "shipping from japan" is actually just walking out back and pulling it out of the last running dsm the shop took in.

Op, there are a lot better options than paying that much for a used motor... hell, every now and again there are some pulled complete runners locally for $500.

Even a full on reman with zero miles is only a couple hundred more than your $2500. And those usually have like a 30, 000 mile warranty.

companies do import low mileage 4g63t's from japan. They have low mileage because of different reasons. One being because of strict inspection requirements "Shaken". which can cost 1000 to 1500 dollars for 24 months.

Why do JDM engines have low mileage? | Import Insider

I believe it, its just as a shop why wouldn't you want to build something to the customers needs or goals? And its still used, half way across the world, and stock. To me it just sounds like too much money for what you're getting, used parts, and you have no idea how the car was driven over there.... it could last 6 months and tank, well out of warranty and maybe you'd only put another 4kmiles on it since you are modifying it for more power... it just my opinion. I wouldn't do it with the vast amount of parts and builders locally in the states.

 

[Kdouglas89]

He did say a JDM motor with less than 55k miles on it. The motor itself would be around 1500, and the labor of him removing my motor, and installing new motor with everything included would run about 1000. The labor fees seemed ok to me, but I was not sure on the motor price.

In the case of bent valves, wouldn't I just need a lower? Or would I need a new head?

He basically told me it was a whole new motor, or a complete rebuild because of the calateral damage that was probably caused.

 

[Breezio69]

What's actually wrong with your motor? Has the guy even torn into it?

Bent valves is the head mainly. The pistons need to be looked at to assess the damage, this can be done from just pulling the head off. It doesn't take much to bend a valve, it takes quite a bit to break up the piston s.

 

[Kdouglas89]

What's actually wrong with your motor? Has the guy even torn into it?

Bent valves is the head mainly. The pistons need to be looked at to assess the damage, this can be done from just pulling the head off. It doesn't take much to bend a valve, it takes quite a bit to break up the piston s.

I just dropped it off this morning. I broke the balance shaft pulley. It snapped in half. He said 99.9% sure it tore everything up. He said bent valves and rods, and metal shavings "Could" be everywhere. This was all just from him looking at the broken balance pulley.

I was going about 2mph when I heard it break, the car shut off immediatly. I found half of the pulley infront of my car. As soon as I showed the mechanic the pulley he already assumed it was gonna need a fresh rebuild or new motor.

Should I pay the labor fees and have him pull the head to see the exact damage? If I could just get away with ordering a new head, that would be fantastic.

 

[BogusSVO]

*** EDIT***
Front or rear BS pulley? If the rear you killed the front case. another ebay stubby shaft to blame????



Sounds like the front BS seized up. If that is the case, pull the oil pan and confirm,

If you want the cheap way out, do an in car BSE.

Get a good rebuilt head for $500 or less(same vendors as above)

Spend $500-$600 on parts (gaskets, ARP head studs, new timing)

Buff the dings out of the pistons,

Clean the front case, and go boost on.

You are not the First DSM'er to kill a BS.

 

[Kdouglas89]

*** EDIT***
Front or rear BS pulley? If the rear you killed the front case. another ebay stubby shaft to blame????



Sounds like the front BS seized up. If that is the case, pull the oil pan and confirm,

If you want the cheap way out, do an in car BSE.

Get a good rebuilt head for $500 or less(same vendors as above)

Spend $500-$600 on parts (gaskets, ARP head studs, new timing)

Buff the dings out of the pistons,

Clean the front case, and go boost on.

You are not the First DSM'er to kill a BS.

I really have no idea front or read. The pulley was completely snapped in half like it hit hard. He made it sound like it could have destroyed everything. I was having a million thoughts going threw my head when he was talking to me, so I was not paying much attention . Only thing I was thinking about was paying for a new engine :/.

So should I have him take the head off and inspect the damage? I should be able to tell if the pistons are damaged just by looking at the tops correct?

 

[Breezio69]

Agree with bogus^^^^

If revs were that low when this all occured there is a high chance that the pistons and all of the lower assembly is ok.

Best thing to do is just dig in!

If everything turns out going the cheaper route as stated above, you could still get your 3k loan, fix it for half that then mod on

The thing is, and this is the type of thinking that I do. Do you think the mechanic can be trusted? After already telling you all this stuff about the whole motor exploded and jdm japan stuff... I mean if you go in and tell him to check up on what bogus said, he could still just be like... well you just need a new motor etc etc... that's things I think about. How reputable is this shop I guess, that's what I'm getting at.

 

[Kdouglas89]

Besides a new head, what else could have been damaged when the BS broke? Would it involve digging into the block and cleaning out shavings? Could the balance shaft itself tear anything up inside the block? I am sorry for all the questions, I just am trying to comprehend everything.

Edit : Would re-do timing belt of course.

 

[Breezio69]

To ease your mind a small bit about this. Some people have just taken the belt off the front pulley for the balance shafts and left the whole balance shaft in the bottom end. The second balance shaft is driven by the oil pump pulley and is gear driven. There isn't really consequence for running the front balance shaft beltless. I believe this is what bogus was stating when he said "do an in car bse".

At that point, the thing youbare left with is a broken timing belt. That can be mostly seen from the top with the head off. But, since (if you follow bogus' s advice) pull the pan to check out the balance shaft, you can also inspect the bottom end while you're in there.

At this point I'd have the head off and the pan dropped and go from there

 

[WES_393]

I really have no idea front or read. The pulley was completely snapped in half like it hit hard. He made it sound like it could have destroyed everything. I was having a million thoughts going threw my head when he was talking to me, so I was not paying much attention . Only thing I was thinking about was paying for a new engine :/.

Whether it was the front or rear makes a big difference. Like Bogus said, if the rear shaft failed it likely damaged the oil pump and possibly other parts of the engine. The front shaft failing isn't nearly as serious and eliminating it could solve the problem.

So should I have him take the head off and inspect the damage? I should be able to tell if the pistons are damaged just by looking at the tops correct?

If the engine jumped time, the head definitely has to come off anyways. You'll see some "kiss" marks on the piston tops, but definitely no cracks, missing chunks, or deformed piston tops. You can also test the pistons by filling the cylinders equally with oil and letting it sit overnight. All the cylinders should have the same level of oil the next day. A low or empty cylinder is a sign of damage.

 

[Kdouglas89]

Do the front and rear look different? Just by him looking at it, he said the oil pump would be destroyed.

I'm pretty sure this is what I had given him.

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Looking at pictures, I was holding the oil pump sprocket. Does this mean anything differently?

 

[WES_393]

That is the oil pump gear, which also drives the rear shaft. The front balance shaft has been eliminated in that picture. Notice the gear on the left in the picture below, that's the front shaft. In your car, is the front shaft gear still there? If so, is there a belt on it too?

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If the oil pump gear broke, the pump at least has to be pulled and inspected. It's likely that the rear shaft (or aftermarket stubby) seized up causing the belt to break, which means game over for the oil pump.

 

[Breezio69]

This is the front balance shaft belt gear. Pretty easy to distinguish.

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Edit, this is the large sprocket, but the picture shows the difference in the section width of the two different bs drive systems. 1 being the balance shaft belt, the other being the timing belt.

 

[Kdouglas89]

I was holding the oil pump sprocket. It had snapped in half. When it broke, motor was at roughly 1500rpm. I did not try to restart the motor. What are the chances that valves did not get bent?

 

[WES_393]

^ They're more than likely bent. You could have your mechanic run a leak down test to be certain, but I've never seen anyone get lucky with this kind of failure.

 

[Kdouglas89]

^ They're more than likely bent. You could have your mechanic run a leak down test to be certain, but I've never seen anyone get lucky with this kind of failure.

I really appreciate all you guys help. I will give it the weekend, and post an update monday, or tuesday when I have decided what I am going to do.

Thank you very much.

 

[linksys42]

I believe it, its just as a shop why wouldn't you want to build something to the customers needs or goals? And its still used, half way across the world, and stock. To me it just sounds like too much money for what you're getting, used parts, and you have no idea how the car was driven over there.... it could last 6 months and tank, well out of warranty and maybe you'd only put another 4kmiles on it since you are modifying it for more power... it just my opinion. I wouldn't do it with the vast amount of parts and builders locally in the states.

I wasn't concerned with the advice to the OP to just have his long block rebuilt. I was concerned with information in your quote below. It all depends on how much he wants to spend and the risks he is willing to take. If I was him I would just buy a cheap DD and learn to build it myself over time. That way you don't have to worry about someone else work. And all you would have to pay for over time is machine shops labor and parts. And have the gratification that you built it yourself.

sounds like he doesn't know his shit because they were made in Illinois, not japan. Make sense?

 

[Kdouglas89]

My issue is. My wife and I both work so it's a pain in the ass getting dropped off or dropping her off. As of right now, I would content with a stock motor just to get me back on the road. I will have to take a loan for the repairs because I don't have that kind of cash right now. It will be difficult takin much due to KBB of the vehicle.

 

[linksys42]

My issue is. My wife and I both work so it's a pain in the ass getting dropped off or dropping her off. As of right now, I would content with a stock motor just to get me back on the road. I will have to take a loan for the repairs because I don't have that kind of cash right now. It will be difficult takin much due to KBB of the vehicle.

I understand, that sucks. But you could take a loan and find a 1000 dollar beater corolla. And sit on the eclipse and build it over time when you have the cash. Just another option.